Graham T

Yet another iteration!  Added a gentle curve to the platform, which I think looks a lot more pleasing.  And I have taken out one of the sidings.

35 minutes ago, Kris said:

The plan looks like it's a little crowded to my eyes. You could possibly free it up a little by moving the engine shed. I wonder if this could be put where the hidden siding at the top is. 

The turntable is still bothering me.  But I think I will keep the branch line disappearing off into the top right corner, that was a really nice idea (sorry but can't remember now who suggested it).

1 hour ago, 9C85 said:

 

I would try to get a gentle curve on the platform or at least have it not parallel to the baseboard edge.

I wouldn't worry about it being having too much track but I do think you're approaching the limit  The trick is trying not to fill it with too many trains . If a siding can accommodate (say) six wagons, try not to put more than three or four in it.  The space around the wagons will give an impression of size, whereas a full siding emphasises how cramped things are.

 

Thanks for the input.  I will replan with a curved platform - don't like to have too many straight lines   And I think I might get rid of the shortest siding to free some space.

I really like this photo, the backscene seems to fit perfectly.

Here is the latest iteration of the plan.  I suppose I should think up a name for this place too really.

It's still obviously at a very early stage, but is coming along I think.  As a total novice at this I'd very much appreciate feedback and constructive criticism.  As I've said, it's not supposed to be anywhere in particular, and of course everything has had to be massively compressed.  But I want to capture the feel of a real GWR branch line if I can.  So please continue to fire away!

A few things that occur to me...

1. I'm still not entirely convinced by the turntable; but I'd feel better having it as I'd like to run some small tender locos.
2. I could make the platform a little longer, and also curve it slightly, which I think would look more pleasing to the eye.  And I think moving the buffer end of the platform towards the front of the layout, just by a few inches, so that it's not parallel to the backscene, would also look better.  That shouldn't ruin the smooth curve leading out of the layout to the fiddle yard, which at the moment I've been able to keep at 3 ft radius.  Shifting the platform like that would also give me some more room for a curved backscene in the top left corner - the station forecourt.  The only downside I can see is that it would slightly reduce the space available for the engine and goods sheds.
3. Should there be a trap point at the exit of the goods yard?
4. Are there too many sidings, or indeed just too much track in general?
5. The idea with the branch line running out of the bay platform is that it goes through a level crossing just beyond the signal box, and then disappears behind rising ground.  I'll add trees on top of there to help hide it.  The hidden area would be about 2 ft long, so good enough for a 14xx and an autocoach I think?  I would leave gaps between the baseboard supports in that corner, so that I could reach the track from underneath the layout if necessary, as it's a long reach from the front of the scenic section to that back corner.
6. And I'm still pondering the scenic break into the fiddle yard.  A tunnel seems the (too?) obvious solution.
7. I quite like the amount of open ground to the right of the road overbridge, and also between the road and the goods yard at the front of the layout.  I think I'd like to leave that relatively empty, and just devoted to scenery.
8. Are there any glaring planning/operational/other errors that I've made?!

Thanks.

8 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

I had exactly the same thought as 9C85 regarding emergency access (I’m getting old too!).

But also, I had a 5’x8” removable fiddle yard and it was remarkably heavy and unwieldy.  Make sure it has a ‘gate’ or similar at each end to stop stock rolling off when you move it.  (I have the remains of a Tri-and Hornby hymek and Mainline peak to show what happens if you don’t!)  And think how often you might need to get out mid session, and how fast e.g. doorbell for delivery: it becomes a right pain if you have to put it all away each time.

Sorry to be a dampener, trying to help you enjoy it properly once it’s built.

Paul.

Thanks to you (and 9C85) for looking out for me

The door opens inwards and will be open while I'm in the room, so there's no risk of someone trying to open it and hitting the fiddle yard.  I'm here on my own most of the time anyway.  In case of emergency I'll duck underneath!  I'll also make sure that the yard has a fiddle rail on all sides to make sure nothing makes a bid for freedom.  I'm thinking perhaps something removable on the side that connects to the scenic part of the layout though - otherwise the trains won't be able to get in and out ...

2 hours ago, mpeffers said:

Some thoughts on the above.

 

Whilst I appreciate you’re not going for modelling a prototype, basing your layout on an real life location (or elements of) is a good way of making the layout make sense. It is tough - even modest branch termini generally require a lot of compression to fit a reasonable space.

 

Bridge/Tunnel is the traditional fiddle yard exit disguise, but sometimes feel a bit... unsatisfying? I think because of their size, they are features of the layout and they draw the eye in. If the topology around the area doesn’t seem to fit the rest of the scene or, for example, there seems to be an easier route for a road to reach where it’s going without requiring a bridge, it can feel a little too obvious what it’s trying to disguise. Things like hedgerows, trees, pipe bridges and even just a backscene hole can be effective despite not acting as a full view-blocker.

 

4’ should be adequate for a traverser for a tender engine +3. Hattons’ website is quite good for posting images of RTR stock alongside a ruler if you want to know more about lengths before purchasing anything.

 

As ever, there’s a prototype for everything. The Fairford Branch had a turntable at the terminus end and almost everything used it - even pannier tanks. Equally, the Lambourn Valley branch made significant use of tender engines but without the facility to turn them at the far end. (The original intention was for the Manors to replace the Churchward Moguls, so not unreasonable to run the former if you do the latter, btw)

 

As a general rule, platforms and loops at branch termini seemed to be significantly longer than the ‘usual’ trains. This often lost to compression in models, but I’d suggest lengthening the loop if you have the capacity to.

 

Goods yard and engine shed swapping positions seems sensible for the relative space they tend to occupy. Looks likely that the turntable wouldn’t fit at the back (not look as good?) if you want to keep it.

All great stuff - thanks very much.  I found a very useful site on the Fairford branch, which I'm sure you've seen but I'm linking it here for my own reference as much as anything:  http://www.fairfordbranch.co.uk/index.htm

The plan is now taking shape (probably about version 12 so far!) and I've been able to lengthen the loop; I think it will be close to 5 ft now.

3 hours ago, KeithHC said:

If you want evidence of a turntable at a gwr but then Cardigan Town station had one located in front of the engine shed. Also on the subject of EM soon to be introduced by British Finescale. You can checkout the thread under hand built track.

 

Keith

Thanks Keith, really useful.  I've incorporated the Cardigan Town idea into my plan, using a 65' turntable - should be long enough for a Manor class I think?  And that's really good news about British Finescale; I found the thread and am now following it.  Do you know if there are point templates available to download yet?  (Must confess I haven't had time to read the whole thread).

2 hours ago, 9C85 said:

You could also have another scenic break where the current goods shed is. The hidden section would only need to be long enough for your autocoach and a small tank engine.  You could have that train shuttling on and off from the bay platform and providing a connecting service with the 3 coach trains which use the 'main' platform.

Thanks, I really like that idea.  The hidden section would be tucked away right in the corner of the room, and so hard to reach.  But I think I could have holes in the baseboard in that area so I could access the track from beneath if I needed to.

2 hours ago, Barclay said:

Radius-wise, I would try to stick to 3' for a running line. Part of the draw of EM is getting away from the train-set curves. If your platform angled downwards instead of upwards, if that makes sense, you would need less curve to get round the corner, and could use a larger radius. 

 

If you plan to use 3-link couplings you might want to put the good facilities at the front and the engine shed at the back.

 

Good luck with the project.

Thanks for the tips.  I had a bit of a brainwave (!) and have decided on using a removable cassette-type fiddle yard.  The thinking is that it will be 4.5 ft x 1ft, and can go up on a shelf when I'm not "playing trains".  When I am using the layout it doesn't matter if the door to the spare room is obstructed.  That gives me some more space, and I can ease the main line curve to a 3ft radius.

I am planning to use 3-link coupling, so the goods yard is indeed moving to the front.

1 hour ago, 9C85 said:

I am led to believe the bus stipulation is indeed Rule 2 

 

There's nothing stopping you having the short siding as a cattle dock as it stands in your first plan - it would add a bit of operational interest shunting stock in and out of it.

 

Also, if you move the goods yard to where the turntable is, you immediately have a reason for a road bridge over the track at the scenic break  - the goods have to arrive at/leave the yard by road somehow.

 

The current Goods Shed could then become another industrial siding - I am not sure, but from my experience of most layouts on here, Rule 3 states that is has to be a brewery.

 

Cheers 

There seem to be an awful lot of rules...  I'm sure I will manage to break lots of them!

The cattle dock might become a shorter platform for the autocoach, and yes I think I will switch the goods yard and the engine shed (afraid I might be breaking Rule 3 already).  Perhaps put a cattle dock in the goods yard, hmm.

I'll post a revised plan a bit later today.

31 minutes ago, Gedward said:

Thinking about the scenery and terrain, are you planning a back scene? It might be a good idea to think about that early days too.

 

I imagine with your artistic background, you'll want to paint it yourself. When photographing your layout, higher is better.

Yes I'm definitely going to use back scenes.  I could paint them myself, but also really like the ones used on Bishopscombe.

53 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

How about an off scene turntable - tender locos reverse back into the FY and reappear reversing onto the layout.  Don’t know how easy it would be to fashion an EM locolift to make turning easier.

Paul.

I'm leaning away from having a turntable to be honest.  Will just resort to the "Hand of God" in the fiddle yard, that will save me a lot of space.

Thanks 9C85.  I think I'll probably abandon the turntable; it didn't really feel right anyway...

I don't think I will mind handling the locos in the fiddle yard.  I'm more interested in making the layout look good as a scene than in the actual operations of it.  And I don't really see how I can extend the yard beyond 4ft anyway.  There is a doorway at the lower end, and if I go any further into the scenic area then the radius of the curve leading into the yard gets too tight I think.

The short platform is supposed to be a cattle dock and/or parcels bay.  Would that make sense?  I could reverse the point leading in to it.  As I'm probably going to get rid of the turntable then I might also move the goods yard to where the engine shed is on the current plan.

Thanks also for the tips on the scenic break.  I was thinking about a road overbridge (and also need to think about the whole topography of the site - I want it to look like countryside that a railway line was built through, rather than the other way around).  I was aware of the bus motif too - is that Rule 2?!  And of course I also need to think about scenery at the other end of the line too...

Well now I really am committed (or perhaps I should be...)  Ordered myself an autocoach today.  So I thought I'd better make a proper start on the planning.

Here's my starter for ten.  As mentioned, the space I have available is 10' x 6'6", and here is my initial idea.  I know very well that this is probably going to change out of all recognition!  It will of course be another GWR branch line terminus.  I know very little about any of this, so will kick off with the first of what I'm sure will be a very long list of questions:

1. Does the planned track layout make sense?  I'm not looking to build something based on absolute reality, but I'd like it to be at least feasible, and most importantly to look and feel right.
2. The curve leading round into the fiddle yard is planned to be 24" radius.  Will that work for EM track?
3. I've no idea how I will make a convincing break between the scenic section and the fiddle yard.  Any suggestions?
4. The fiddle yard will be 4' long.  I'd like to run 3-coach trains, so I assume that will that be long enough?  Same question for the station itself, more importantly.
5. I've planned for a turntable as I'd like to run tender locos (up to a Manor).  Would it be feasible to have a turntable at a small terminus like this?  If not, I'm assuming this sort of station wouldn't have seen tender locos?
6. There's enough space to have another track running next to the runround loop, but I can't see a reason why there would be in real life?  (I'm also wary about trying to squeeze too much in, which I suspect I may have done already).
7. I could make the runround loop a little longer if necessary.  Any thoughts one way or the other?
8. What about swapping locations of the goods yard and the engine shed, and getting rid of the turntable?

Thanks very much in advance for any suggestions

That's a super painting, especially the water.  I'm still struggling on with my homage to David Shepherd - this one is in oils.

I haven't read it, but just found a used copy online at a very good price, so will do soon!  I didn't realise that those two locos were in the painting, nice to know that - thank you.

Just a little bit more done over the weekend.

Here's the latest, I've now blocked in the engine.  The more of this I paint, the longer I think it is going to take to actually get finished!

I like your skies - would make very nice backscenes I think.  Watercolour is very tricky, no room for errors.  I think oils are much more forgiving, make a mistake and you just wipe it away, scrape it, or paint over it!

2 hours ago, JustinDean said:

If you’re a fan of GWR Branchlines I highly recommend you lose yourself in Kevin’s ‘Little Muddle’ thread on this site. It’s an incredible and inspirational layout indeed. 

I've already spent many hours looking at that one, in awe!  Thanks.

Thanks very much Gedward.  I'm enjoying painting the 9F at the moment (after a David Shepherd original).  Now that one has some mood!

I think it will probably be a while before I actually "break ground" on the layout, lots of planning to do first.  But of course that's all part of the fun.

I took a look at your layout, really nice buildings.  I expect I will be asking to pick your brains when I finally get started, if you don't mind!

Thanks Gedward.  Is your layout on the forums?

After a short break from railway modelling (well, about 40 years actually, since I "helped" my Dad to build a OO loft layout), I'm seriously considering building myself a small layout.  A few years ago I took up oil painting, and am particularly fond of painting steam locos (you can see some of them here:  https://www.grahamtownsend.com/gallery/).  While I was looking for reference pictures I came across RWWeb, and now I'm hooked.  I'm laying the blame especially with the creators of Warren Branch, Tetbury, Bishopscombe, and Hembourne, who have inspired me to post this.  You chaps have alot to answer for!

I have a 10 x 6 ft L-shape space available in a spare bedroom.  I'm looking at building something based on a GWR branch line terminus, set in a fairly flexible time period - perhaps 1930s to 1950s or something like that.  The terminus would sit on the longer side of the L, running round to a fiddle yard on the shorter side.  I don't want to be hyper-accurate, but am more concerned with creating the right sort of atmosphere.  That being said, I would like to build it in EM rather than OO.  It seems that there are ready-made Peco points and track available (I'm considering joining the EM Gauge Society), but was wondering how big a range of track is available.  For example, are there ready-made curved points?  I'm a reasonably competent model maker but don't really fancy building my own track...  On the same topic, would points in a goods yard area be the same radius as those on running lines, or tighter?

As far as stock goes, I'd like to run mainly tank engines - probably an 0-4-2 (fond memories of an Airfix one from my misspent youth), perhaps with an autocoach, panniers (of course), small Prairies, a Collett Goods, and a Mogul.  Maybe even a Manor if I think I can get away with it (and I'm already familiar with Rule 1, so why not?!)  But if I ran tender locos I guess I would need a turntable as well.  Would that be feasible in terms of realism, and also the space I've got to play with?  I would also like to be able to run three coach trains, but am not sure if that would fit, as of course I would need extra length at the buffer end of the platform for a run-round loop.  I'd really like to hear any thoughts you might have on that.

I have done some model making over the last few years, mostly 1:72 ships.  I built the old Matchbox model of the Flower class corvette as HMS Campanula, which you can see some pictures of here:  https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theflowerclasscorvetteforums/hms-campanula-1-72-model-t730.html, and am also trying (struggling!) to finish an Airfix motor torpedo boat.  So I hope that building won't be too much of a problem - famous last words!

Final bit of rambling from me - I live in a rented flat, so, although the layout doesn't need to be as portable as one that was going to be used for exhibitions and so on, I do need to consider being able to move it at a later date without it being completely destroyed in the process!

This may not look very different from the last photo, but it's taken quite a bit of work to get this far.  Most of it now needs to be allowed to dry for a while, but I can make a start on the main locomotive.