Stuart

Thanks for the replies, folks.

Pretty sure it was a 37, I was quite used to 40s. But….

Changing - there can’t have been a through train at the appropriate time.

I wondered about the 1721, but this was booked for a. Mk II set and would normally have been a 45.

However, could have been a scratch set if the booked set was very late/unavailable, 

Also, there were sometimes Newcastle-Manchester Victoria extras with Mk1 stock, and a 40….

Bit of a long shot, but, with the wealth of knowledge in this forum, worth a punt.

So, we got married on September 3rd 1983, and we left for our honeymoon in Paris by train (OK, there was a ferry involved, but rail on both sides of the Channel, inc a Gas-turbine set from Boulogne to Gare du Nord).

We left Durham mid-late afternoon, changing at Darlington (I think) for KX. We set off in a Mk1 Compartment coach, and I am sure the loco was a Class 37 because even at this distance on time, I remember thinking – goods engine, which they were in the North-east. But, I didn’t get the number – new bride to look after etc.

Any ideas as to train or loco?

I've looked at class37.co.uk but their Working Archive doesn't go back that far.

Looking at Philip Benham's book on NYMR, he says that four-wheel coaches were replaced with 45ft bogie vehicles in 1898/9 - NER diagrams 47, 48 and 49.

Restrictions on 52ft stock were lifted in 1901 due to a programme of track improvements, and vehicles up to 65ft 6ins alowed by 1922.  All restrictions on LNER stock were lifted in 1924.

I have a note that "17.10.1964 - 6.45 pm Whitby – Malton D348 plus 4 coaches, 2 of which, E43358E and E43031E, were marked to work Whitby- Malton only. " I can't immediately find the source of this information (probably a photo somewhere but I would think the marking is the one in Railway Memories 19.

By the 60's the Malton-Whitby sets only worked between those points, with maybe an FSO extension to York; this might explain the markings?

Incidentally, by the 1963-4 winter timetable, the Malton-Whitby set was booked for BR Standard Stock, and I have read somewhere that thse came from the LTS after electrification.

I have got rather more interested in TPOs since discovering that my granny, a village postwoman in Northumberland, delivered mail some of which had come off the ‘drop’ by the North Eastern TPO at Alnmouth.

Peter Johnson’s books are all very informative but I have just acquired a book by Brian White who was a TPO man based at Peterborough. From what I have gleaned from the chapters on the “apparatus” and accidents, a number of people were hurt/killed by sticking their heads out of windows and coming into contact with the suspended pouches on the ground delivery standard.

It may well be the case that where apparatus was in used on a train comprising TPO and passenger coaches, the TPO was situated at the front so that the pouches were collected into the TPO, the ground standard swung away from the line and therefore didn’t pose so much of a hazard to anybody with their heads out of the window.

So if ‘apparatus’ is being used, maybe the TPO should be at the front, if not, then front or back.

The book also cleared up a question in my mind about ‘Tenders’ in Post Office railway terms.

POS - was the actual sorting vehicle - Post Office Sorting carriage.

POT - was simply a stowage vehicle,, but Post Office Tender? White records that one was added to the Peterborough-Crewe TPO simply to carry Datapost.

Bag Tender - White describes this as a ‘TPO carriage or carriages that handled only bags of mail and on which no sorting took place requiring only one or two men’.

if you want to run a TPO carriage and your chosen line doesn’t really justify a TPO, call it a Bag Tender ( but Rule 1 applies anŷway).

Stuart

Although normal trains between Malton and Whitby in LNER days were 51ft, (57ft in BR days), there were summer trains from KX formed of corridor stock. I can’t see any requirement for particular length stock so I guess Gresleys, which are 63ft (??) weren’t restricted. So the curves were probably eased before the 1920s.

The only restriction on BR Mk1s was indeed in platforms 3 and 4 at Whitby Town. If Mk1s were in one of those platforms, the other had to be ‘blocked’.

Thanks for the info

Regards

Stuart

Slowly working through L-R 100 Compositions., I can’t see where the Chef du Train would ride on a loco-hauled set. 
Can anyone enlighten me?

Thanks

Stuart

On 23/06/2022 at 12:40, john new said:

Just been watching the live Grosmont cam, the Q6 has taken the Pullman diner rake out with a loaded open freight truck on the back as a tail end load. Never seen that before, preservation or main line. (Vans as tail swingers yes - opens no.)

 

Initiative used and train images caught 15 mins later with a couple of screen grabs from the Goathland cam.  Not an expert on wagons, some form of XP rated tube wagon?

 

(Edit: finally managed to get Photoshop to play and crop the images - computer misbehaving a bit today and running mega slow!)

Back in late 70s/early 80s, I was an NYMR guard and one day, my coaching set had an open wagon coupled to the back to be dropped off at Levisham. At this distance in time, I can't remember exactly what sort of wagon (obviously vac fitted) but I think it had concrete cable run castings, and had arrived via the Whitby pick-up. On arrival at Levisham, the wagon was left in the up platform under the watchful eye of the signalman.

On 16/02/2022 at 18:30, montyburns56 said:

 I think this might be the crossing on Wellington Road.

 

"Granville No 5" 1964 by Geoff Dowling

 

Close. This isn’t the Wellington Road crossing but what was then School Road crossing, about 250m further south. 

Stuart
 

Even a couple of rails left in the road in Priorslee Village.

Welcome to Telford!
Three more books you might consider for the new shelf in your library.

Stuart.

I’ll second that!
I had a ‘Tracked 48’ parcel arrive which was shown as despatched at 2338 by the merchant on Sunday 19th, and delivered at 0719 on Tuesday 21st by Royal Mail., so realistically rather less than 24hours.

Well worth a visit if you are in the area.

The shop is, as many such establishments are, well stocked with pre-loved books on a variety of subjects but in our case, the draw is a wide selection of railway books which are not the general titles usually seen.

Jon stocks new Wild Swan books as well.

The shop is at 12 South Street, Bridport, and was open 10-3 MWFSO.

Parking – Bridport seems pretty good for parking (we discovered that Dorset Council seem to appreciate motor caravans and provide dedicated parking bays).

(No connection with the place save as a well-satisfied customer who wishes he’d bought more…..)

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

A busy day again.

 

Attingham was visited and we took enough books for their second hand stall to warrant taking the 4 wheel  trolley in order to get the books from car park to the store area.  The walk around the park then followed.  The river was up and was very spectacular as it went over the weir.  for those of a white water kaytaking bent, the water going over the weir and then having to negotiate a narrowed section between two bridges was throwing up a multitude of 'stoppers' one behind the other.  They looked like quite large waves trying to come back up river against the natural flow.

 

Definitely not the place to be if you fell in.

 

The afternoon saw more work on the new fruit cages and the lawn got a much needed cut:  It's recycling tomorrow, so a well worth while activity to fill up the green bins.

 

The bed lathe was repaired.  On close examination it was the one that broke last time, so now it's probably more PVA than timber.  Still if it lasts another couple of years, I will be well pleased.

 

Morgan, Charlotte and Luna called by borrow our barbeque as theirs has given up the ghost. Tea was drunk and a Rocky road cake was produced:  It was also consumed.  Welsh cakes were also on offer.

 

Our evening meal was sausages with baked potato and salady bits.  Winter coleslaw, tomatoes and home grown cucumber to be exact.

 

My main tasking tomorrow is to find a load of dried blueberries so I can make a blueberry fruit loaf:  Think of it as a very large blueberry scone.

 

Georgie has been tempting us again:

 

Lemon cake pops.

 

 

Since the rest of the family will be visiting for the first time in quite a while next week, Nyda is going to get Georgie to make us a special cake.

 

For those who do read Hazel Edwards, they will know that a hippo's favourite is special cake!

 

 

Memo to self  - must keep out of second hand bookshop on next visit.

Any thoughts on the little tramway in the shop? 
 

I can’t find any information about it.

Stuart

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

A busy day again.

 

Attingham was visited and we took enough books for their second hand stall to warrant taking the 4 wheel  trolley in order to get the books from car park to the store area.  The walk around the park then followed.  The river was up and was very spectacular as it went over the weir.  for those of a white water kaytaking bent, the water going over the weir and then having to negotiate a narrowed section between two bridges was throwing up a multitude of 'stoppers' one behind the other.  They looked like quite large waves trying to come back up river against the natural flow.

 

Definitely not the place to be if you fell in.

 

The afternoon saw more work on the new fruit cages and the lawn got a much needed cut:  It's recycling tomorrow, so a well worth while activity to fill up the green bins.

 

The bed lathe was repaired.  On close examination it was the one that broke last time, so now it's probably more PVA than timber.  Still if it lasts another couple of years, I will be well pleased.

 

Morgan, Charlotte and Luna called by borrow our barbeque as theirs has given up the ghost. Tea was drunk and a Rocky road cake was produced:  It was also consumed.  Welsh cakes were also on offer.

 

Our evening meal was sausages with baked potato and salady bits.  Winter coleslaw, tomatoes and home grown cucumber to be exact.

 

My main tasking tomorrow is to find a load of dried blueberries so I can make a blueberry fruit loaf:  Think of it as a very large blueberry scone.

 

Georgie has been tempting us again:

 

Lemon cake pops.

 

 

Since the rest of the family will be visiting for the first time in quite a while next week, Nyda is going to get Georgie to make us a special cake.

 

For those who do read Hazel Edwards, they will know that a hippo's favourite is special cake!

 

 

Memo to self  - must keep out of second hand bookshop on next visit.

Any thoughts on the little tramway in the shop? 
 

I can’t find any information about it.

Stuart

On 23/04/2021 at 17:45, simontaylor484 said:

No i dont think the submarine service would be for me. Sleeping in a coffin virtually ooh no. I sat the Admiralty Interview Board at Hms Sultan in Gosport back in 2000 i was unsuccessful but we were warned not to mention Submarines at all or you would most likely end up on one.

Ditto (although my unsuccessful  AIB was 1970 something). However, younger son, whom HH may recall as a fairly well constructed individual, has wanted to be a submariner since his teens. He did take us round his boat a couple of years ago and we were both amazed at the size of the thing. I gather coffin dreams are not unknown amongst the crew and given that on some ships/boats he has been unable to turn over in his bunk, I can quite understand that.

Did a TPO use the Taunton-Barnstaple line?
 

I do wonder if the Mail Apparatus at Wiveliscombe and East Anstey is actually Token Exchange apparatus?

9 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

It a bit on the chilly side today.

 

I had to make a delivery so took the car out and there is a spot on the 'main' road that floods due to inadequate drainage.

There is a hedge each side of the road and it is just twigs and branches at this time of the year, except where the spray lands when vehicles drive through the puddle.

At this point the hedges look as if they've been snowed on due to the spray turning to ice.

 

Apart from that, as is usual in the Telfland micro climate, the promised snow has failed to materialise.  One presumes it will arrive, probably in about late May!

 

The planning for the grandchildren's railway continues, although it is growing rather larger than first anticipated.

 

At this rate, I can see me renting a large industrial warehouse for my various railway schemes.

 

 

I was past the Hippodrome road end this afternoon - thought those hedges looked odd - ice?  I didn’t realise  it was that cold.....

Have you found a 1.8mm drill bit yet?  I’ll drop a couple off on my way to work.
 

Download it from here

https://www.telford.gov.uk/downloads/file/10178/granville_heritage_trail_leaflet

Walked part of it on Sunday - some informative boards along the way.

On 09/02/2020 at 22:24, russ p said:

Why does the NYMR use propelling lamps as headlamps they are far to big ,basically a tail lamp with  white  lenses 

 

Sorry to be a bit tardy on this - just catching up on this thread.

I think those lamps are LMS loco lamps and my memory suggests that only 5428 and 4767 carried this style of lamp. They were significantly different to the LNER style that most other NYMR locos carried.

But it was a long time ago..

Stuart

From the summer 1954 Carriage Working Book, the basic sets were BT-CL-BT or BT-CL-T-BT with a further T as a timetabled strengthener during July, August and early September.

DMUs from 1958?

I think I have a 1930's carriage working book somewhere, I'll have a look for it but I doubt they'll be much different.

Both books are from NERA http://www.ner.org.uk/assets/NERA Book & Publications - Combined List 22nd March 2019.pdf

A 158 was on the 1020 ex Middlesbrough/1158 ex Whitby on Friday 26 July.

It looked well filled and there were plenty of people waiting to join at Whitby .

After 43 years of working with them, I would say that you do have to treat Ordnance Survey maps with a degree of caution. That statement isn’t intended to denigrate the OS, either body or the surveyors, a number of whom I have counted as friends or former colleagues, but I do think you need a certain amount of knowledge to interpret what you see.

Firstly, the Ordnance Survey map is a topographical map, it is intended to show physical features – it is not, and never was, intended to show property boundaries (s12 Ordnance Survey Act 1841). It does, of course, show physical features which are property boundaries, but that isn’t it’s intended purpose.  

Next, the maps show physical features within the limitations of scale, and to a specified degree of tolerance. For instance, in 95% of instances on a 1:2500 scale map, a distance of 100m in the real world will be shown as between 98.1m and 101.9m on the map, so a tolerance of nearly 2%.

The first 1:2500 maps were surveyed on a County basis (hence Rowsley 17D’s plan above is from the Derbyshire series, map XV.13). The were originally surveyed by men with brass and wooden theodolites, and brass and steel chains. Their survey reports were then hand plotted and examined before being printed. The important thing is that they were done by individual surveyors, plotters and examiners and, no matter how stringent the instructions and examination, individuality did show through. I have seen first edition maps where, say, crossovers between running lines are nicely shown with their curved lines, and others where they are simply shown as two straight lines. But they should show the actual position of the lines with a decent amount of lineside detail. Paras 99-116 in these old instructions https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/docs/ebooks/historical-instructions-to-field-examiners.pdf give some idea.

Revision is also a major issue to consider as RailWest says. A map may be revised because either ‘it’s time’ or because there has been some significant change in the area covered by the map. Unfortunately, the surveyor may not have noticed that the railway line has changed, especially where change is in an area difficult to see from adjacent streets etc. Or it may been more important to survey a new road or shopping centre then record the addition/removal of a siding. Even aerial photography doesn’t solve this problem – an area may be in shadow, or the photographs mis-interpreted.

And then there’s the issue of your chosen site crossing a sheet join (or worse still, being in the corners of four sheets) where the revision dates aren’t consistent.

If you’ve obtained a railway plan, you may not be interested in the corresponding OS map, but if you do compare them, you’ll probably find they don’t match – the OS map will be drawn on the Cassini (pre WW2) or Mercator (post WW2) projection, to the tolerances noted above whereas a large scale plan of, say, a station, will be very accurate., so they won’t exactly match.

BUT, having said all that, the OS is still probably one of, if not the, best mapping institution in the world.

My memories are 1967 onwards (I can just remember my mother buying me a ticket at Lealholm station and putting me on a green DMU to be picked up by Father in Middlesbrough).

The dated services I remember would have been 1740-ish to Newcastle and 2109 SO Middlesbrough, both of which were limited stop after Grosmont.

On Sundays, there was quite a gap between the last arrival and first departure of the three trains so the shortest might have gone into 4 (no carriage sidings at Bog Hall by then).

That second photo in your post is the scene I was trying to envisage in my mind (having walked down that platform over a thousand times) about the platform number signs – so thank you! Memory jogged.

I also think the chap on the left, pushing the barrow, was the regular porter/escort/minder on the school train. His face, I can see, but his name…….

Maybe local Sunday summer services ? Their was regular miners train most weekends from middlesbrough. Which was formed of suburban stock.

 

I remember those signals as well, they were both ‘planted’ in No.1 platform. No.20 being almost in the middle (width-wise)

As to platforms 3 and 4, there was a restriction on Mark 1 coaches using those platforms – you couldn’t put Mark 1s into either if the other was occupied. I guess they were OK for 57ft stock.

This from BR Standard Coaching Stock restrictions (1961)

Whitby Station.

If on No. 3 Platform Line, No. 4 Platform Line to be blocked, and vice versa.

Platform 3 was still there in mid-1959 according to a dated photo in one of John Hunt’s Past and Present books on the NYMR.

I don’t think platform 4 was renumbered to 3, My sketch of Town signal box diagram made in the 1970’s shows it as 4.

Platform 4 seemed rarely used in later days; my memory suggests dated and Sunday services?

Stuart