Stuart

I'm away from my books at the moment so can't check, but I'm pretty sure Reedsmouth's J36 had a turn to Scotsgap on the two daily passenger trains. I also think the J36 worked the fortnightly SO passenger Kielder/Keilder - Hexham and late night return until Reedsmouth shed closed. Stuart

I think you are right and it's been ordered. Many thanks for the pointer. Stuart Thanks for the info. Stuart

What is the DVD you mention, please? I've tried googling it without success. I too was a Grosmont resident back in the 60s/70s, using the line to get to school in Whitby, and definitely remember class 104 DMUs.

1966/67 WTT - 3L16 0500 Parcels from Preston, Kendal 0638/0643, Windermere 0703. 3L17 1120 Parcels from Lancaster, Oxenholme 1200/1212, Kendal 1217/1227, Windermere 1245 3L85 ECS (Vans) Windermere 1300, Kendal 1318, to work 1A65 1A65 SX 1820 Parcels Kendal to Kilburn High Road 1967 Summer WTT 6L25 SX Carnforth 0700, Kendal 0742/1025, Burneside R, Windermere 1050. 6L24 SX Carnforth 1338, Milnthorpe 1358/1430, Oxenholme 1446/1505, Kendal 1515/1612, Burneside 1620. 6P56 SO Kendal 1210, Milnethorpe 1235/1310, Carnforth 1327 8P56 SX Windermere 1240, Burneside 1300/1335, Kendal 1345/1444, Carnforth 1516 (6P56 from Kendal) 6P58 SX Burneside 1655, Kendal 1705/1735, Carnforth 1810 Plus loco hauled passenger and scheduled light engine workings to/from Carnforth MPD. Hope this helps. Stuart

Just spent a fascinating couple of hours at this place (big thanks to Mrs S who spotted it in the Zagreb Times). HO exhibition layout with multi-level lines in effective mountain scenery including spiral and underfloor section (glass covered!). According to their flyer, 1000m of track and 100 trains with plans to extend downstairs into the basement via another spiral. Appropriate stock with locomotive (mostly German or Swiss as far as I could judge) which all ran very well and smoothly under DCC control. Couple of smaller layouts downstairs which you can have a go at driving - meant to encourage younger visitors. Guys are so friendly, most speaking very good English and keen to talk about railway modelling. Website is www.backo.hr. It's maybe 50m off Ilica, the main street in Zagreb and well worth a visit if you're in this part of Croatia. Stuart

During the mid-late 1940s, a Scarborough-Pickering goods and return was worked by a Dairycoates engine. B15s were used until they were all withdrawn (1947). In1949, still a Dairycoates engine with Scarborough men, Stuart (I also lived half a mile away at one point)

Derek, I don’t think I ever got close enough to see what the actual track construction of the cross-over was. I do remember 805/90 lb plain track in NER 4-hole chairs – 2 screws, 2 pins, but nothing about the scissors, I’m afraid. From OS maps, the scissors wasn’t part of the original layout, in fact, there’s no connection shown from the down main/Platform 1 line to the up main after Bog Hall on the 1894 map. Perhaps this was when it was an ‘Arrivals platform’ and ‘Departure platform’ station? The 1913 map shows the scissors crossing, so, at least originally, it was installed by the NER. Would the LNER or BR have renewed the whole thing, or simply replaced individual parts? Incidentally, no no.18 points shown. By 1928, 18 points have appeared as well. By 1968, platform 3 has gone, and 23 points into P4 are depicted around 10m further north than on the 1928 map. P4 was rarely used, except by a dated or SO service which sat there to stay out of the way or the normal service. Unless from P1, any departure tended to be full(ish) throttle and the only ‘rough’ bits I recall were over-enthusiastic traverses of the scissors. Regards Stuart

Derek, A bit late in responding, but, the lines from Bog Hall as far as the scissors crossover were worked as normal up and down lines for passenger trains. Even the ECS to and from the sidings by Bog Hall were supposed to be propelled along the down and up mains respectively. The goods yard was accessed from Bog Hall by the old level crossing there, so the goods trains didn't come down to the station - at least, i never saw one there. The reason there was no FPL on 12 points is because it was not a normal route for passenger trains. The scissors crossover was the 'directing' point for all four (three when i was a regular user) platforms for inward bound trains. The theatre on the bracket told the driver which platform. Coming out of Platform 1, it was as Russ says, top arm read through 18 points to the up main, the upper read ahead and through 12 points onto the up main. Same lever, which arm rose depended on how the points were set. I think one of the signalmen explained why 18 points were there, but 40+ years on, I can't remember the reason. This is a most enjoyable thread - I lived near Hutton Gate station 1962-68 so can just remember the railcars on the Guisborough branch, and then in the Esk Valley 1968-75, travelling daily to school in Whitby so it brings back a lot of memories. Thanks gentlemen Stuart

Going back to late 60’s and early 70s, the school trains on the Esk Valley (0720ish from Middlesbrough and 4.08 ish back from Whitby) were a four-car set and a power twin. The four-car set normally sat in the centre siding at Whitby until required for the return school train. I think everything else in the normal timetable was power twins although I am sure I remember three-car sets on their own – maybe they were the summer extras from Newcastle? From talking to a friend (ex Darlington driver) I think two power to one trailer was the minimum ratio on account, as kenw suggests, of Nunthorpe bank (1/44?). Around 1976-77, the last Middlesbrough-Whitby was the power twin off the 1608 ex-Whitby. Pretty well used, at least as far as Nunthorpe. And whilst I was waiting at the Boro for the last Whitby, there was a Saltburn train with a van attached which was loaded at Middlesbrough – I think it was a four-wheeled van so PMV or CCT. Regards Stuart

Again, a little before your dates but there is some information about shunting http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=770 HTH Stuart

Might well be a Thompson BZ - there are some videos on the market showing Malton-Whitby DMUs hauling such vans as tail traffic. Stu

Almost there, Chard, but a regular, weekly, working! In the 1968/69 marshalling book, the 2245 SO Edinburgh-Carlisle conveyed 2 empty TPOs (POS) to Carlisle. Frustratingly, although the book contains the 0400 Hawick papers formation, the 0350 Carlisle - Edinburgh isn't mentioned. I presume this is because it was a Class 3 parcels rather than Class 1 despite carrying mails to Hawick. Stuart

Robertcwp has just posted a scanned image of the Scottish Region 1968-69 Passenger Train Marshalling circular on his BRCoachingstock Yahoo site. It contains details of almost all the weekday hauled stock trains over the Waverley Route (not, frustratingly, the 0350 ex Carlisle) during that last year - sadly, of course, they are annotated in hand "Service withdrawn w.e.f. 6/1/69". No train formations are shown for Sundays apart from the sleeper - were they DMUs by then? Stuart

In Summer1954, the booked Middlesbrough-Whitby-Scarborough sets were BT-CL-T-BT Whitby-Malton BT-CL-BT as were the Border Counties sets (Newcastle - Riccarton/Hawick) Now as to which services used Gresley non-corridors as opposed to earlier NER/NBR or later Thompsons....... Stuart (must ask lankyphil to wander down to Hattons................)

Well, my hot off the press copy of Last Years of the Waverley Route by David Cross arrived yesterday, nice birthday pressie, a few photos we've seen before but a whole load of new ones (to me at least)including a blue class 37 on the 0658 Hawick-Edinburgh. Stuart

Ken Hoole's NE Locomotive Sheds shows 7 B16s at Tweedmouth in 1923, 4 in 1933, none in 1939, 1 in 1947 and none in 1954. Another analysis of Tweedmouth's allocation 1955 to 1958 on the BR group is equally bare of B16s....... Stu

why the photographer was really here: http://oversands.fot.../p49153545.html look at the non-corridor coach in freight use ALERT!!!! Might this be the return working of the coach which turned 4S43 0630 Carlisle New Yard - Millerhill into a Class 2 passenger train between Riccarton and Hawick? Described to me as the school train..... Stuart

Talking about Waverley route exotica, (well, I think somebody said exotica), what about the Mixed train? Scanning through some recently acquired WTTs, I found a reference to a Mixed train which I have never seen mentioned or photographed. In the 1961/62 book, there is an unadvertised Class 2 train 8.0am SX Newcastleton to Hawick, stopping everywhere including Whitrope Siding. By Summer 1963, that train is not in the WTT but the 6.50am Class 4 freight Carlisle to Niddrie West is shown as an unadvertised Class 2 Mixed Train from Riccarton at 7.53am to Hawick arriving 8.19. In the 1965-66 (passenger)and winter 1965-66 (Freight) it's 4S43 6.30am Carlisle - Craiginches which is shown as running as "Mixed Train Class 2 Riccarton to Hawick" departing Riccarton 7.53am, arriving Hawick 8.19am (and taking water until 8.40am). Was this to take schoolchildren in to Hawick? Anybody any idea what stock was used? How was it returned to Carlisle? There's no mention in the 1967-68 book so obviously finished by then Stuart

Err, no, the OS maps are, and always have been, topographical maps (i.e. they show physical features) not for rating purposes. Railways, and changes in track layouts, were surveyed in the same way as any other change. Having said that, it doesn't get away from the fact that many rural areas weren't surveyed between 1910 and the 1970's which is very frustrating when you are looking for a 1960's layout! Wrong end of the country, but see here http://www.rcahms.gov.uk/the-national-collection-of-aerial-photography1.html for some aerial photos in Scotland.