Grahams

D305 No 10282. Good choice, one of my favourite wagons. Embedded link to Midland Railway Study Centre scan of DY6562 88-G5_53

I'm already strictly limited to one wagon on the bookstall 🤣. I had previously taken two wagons but Andrew has introduced a new regulation. I currently have about 10 5 inch gauge wagons. A D305, a D607, a D818, several D663As in various states of livery and dilapidation and the shunter's (or is it Way and Works??) wagon. We would need a separate stand for the wagons but I do wonder if there is really enough interest. The 5 inch gauge D336A is stalled waiting for other projects and I'm currently working on the 7mm, G1 and G3 D305s. Evidence of intent is in the attached. The wagon on the sheet of transfers is the first prototype in 7mm (as seen at the MR Society meeting in February). Plenty of opportunities for improvement. Working bearing leaf springs is the goal. It can certainly be done in G3. We'll soon see if 7mm is possible. Once the D305 is finished, some D299s are not very far away. Too many projects, too little time...

Will all the wagons on your display be in new condition? Although the number plate numbers were repainted in white, I don't recall seeing the builder's plates with refreshed white paint.

I should have written 1.75 inch dia corners on the RCH drawing. The Midland drawing has 1 inch dia corners. That's why they look so different. The RCH drawing says "for Railway Companies Wagons" and is drawn with LNER letters. Indeed the slightly wider (0.25 inch) Midland plate with the smaller radius corners would have given more room for the word MIDLAND. I am not sure if that is the reason. Stephen the Midland plate you illustrate seems to have mounting slots rather than square holes which is interesting. I have many pictures of wagon plates and there are very many variations in the outer shapes, letter and number shapes and positions. The pattern shops made wagon plates with a degree of freedom! Does anyone know if the Midland was the first to use the D shape?

It's the outline I'm talking about. The outline is different.

The dimensions are on the drawings, not from measurements. The plates are not machined at all, so what do you mean by finished?

I fell down that little trap not long ago when I said I would make some full-size replica plates for an LMS wagon. No problem, I thought. I have the Midland drawing of the D shaped plates. It turns out that the RCH shape (used by the LMS) is different in several details. The Midland width is 11.25 in vs 11 in and the top corner radii are 1 in vs 1.25 in. There are corresponding adjustments to the other dimensions. The Midland has square holes vs the rectangles of the RCH. Picture of one of my replica plates is attached. Also interesting is the variation in shapes made by the many foundries producing them after the grouping. As a result of the research I did, I really should write an article on what I found. Another article in the queue (sigh).

Yes, Facebook can be frustrating and hard work. If it's not for you, that's understandable. I am in a few Facebook groups which are very knowledgeable and helpful. Most are not worth reading. Our target is to make such a knowledgeable and helpful community on Facebook for the Midland Railway. We have to recognise that there are people on Facebook who will never use a forum. The posts on the LNWR Facebook group are a very good example of the broader appeal of a Facebook group. The demographic of the active Facebook user group is different from that of a Society or a Club and if we are there with an interesting and helpful Midland group, we can appeal to that wider demographic.

For those who are on Facebook, there is a new Facebook group "Midland Railway - The Best Way" https://www.facebook.com/groups/midlandrailway It's a private group so please ask to join and mention you have seen this post in your answers to the questions. The idea of the group is to attract those on Facebook who have an interest in the Midland and inspire them to engage in discussion about the railway. We are keen to attract anyone with an interest in any aspect of the Midland. Anything Midland related is welcome. Historic or modern photos of stations, infrastructure, engines, carriages, wagons, sidings, documents, family members who worked on the Midland, models of the Midland, garden railways, miniature railways, photos of infrastructure still existing, preserved railways, engines and rolling stock. Anything Midland! Active posters will be especially welcome as we will need varied content, discussions, questions and answers.

Yes indeed I have no doubt you know the difference. My initial thoughts on the 'A' suffix were the same - that there was some 'level change' as we call it in the automotive industry. A significant change not requiring a new drawing (or diagram in this case). The D336 and A versions were the obvious example to me, where there was an upgrade to the earlier. It seems that a change to the brakework did not justify a change to the Diagram number, even to a suffix. I have a feeling from reading and looking at a lot of Midland drawings that the control of the changes was not as rigorous as it needs to be in a modern engineering environment. Probably the proximity of the DO and Works allowed more flexibility; also, engineering change control was in its infancy. Are there any diagrams with a 'B' or subsequent suffix? I don't remember seeing any.

Stephen you have fallen into a rather unfortunate little hole dug by Nick 🤣

Happy New Year to you too. I believe you mean D633. D663 is a much searched-for and, so far, elusive diagram.

Now that definitely sparked my interest! However, the photo is certainly of interest and thanks for the background on the history of the number.

I have the M and R (also L, M, S) traced from Midland drawings with reference to photos. I use them for transfers as well as number plates. This is a plate I've just made for a preserved wagon. There is a remarkable variation in the LMS wagon plates, both the outside shape and the lettering. Some pattern shops must have used letters they had in their standard box. I'm about to trace the MIDLAND from the works drawing of the scalloped plate for the same purpose (a full-sized plate).

Ben and I already started on that discussion offline. On the drawing I looked at, the floor battens are called boards, the axleguard stay is called a bridle and the capping strip is a capping plate, so it wasn't the Midland DO. Maybe someone knows which railway used those terms?