Roy L S

Does it come sound fitted with lots of Charles quotes? 

DCC smells to go with DCC sound???

On 18/11/2022 at 13:50, Crepello said:

A good choice by Kernow I think.

Agreed, to my knowledge a livery never done before by Bachmann or Farish on their different versions of this loco, and one I just cannot resist, so one duly ordered.

Roy

I really enjoyed watching the build, truly inspiring work and such incredible skill especially given it was all done with hand-tools, 

I am an N gauge modeller and it is work like this that really illustrate the difference between it and 2mm scale.

Roy

6 minutes ago, fezza said:

The jury is certainly out on TT but don't assume detail and fidelity is what sells - good running and fun sells too. Kato N is now getting a bigger following in the UK - some of it is slightly crude by Farish standards but it is a complete system, it runs well and things rarely break. Everything is plug and play - very important for the modern market. And it's fun.

 

If Hornby can build a mass market around TT by offering a complete system and range (doing what Kato have done in N) they will be successful. Yes I know Japan is a much bigger market but that market has been built on a record of great products at sensible prices from the major Japanese N gauge manufacturers.

 

Hornby can't afford TT to fail. They aren't investing that amount of money in TT without having done a lot of market research. 

 

Let's hope Farish benefit from the competition rather than retract even further into a specialist niche collector market.

I have been modelling in British N since my teens from the mid 70s and I don't "assume" detail and fidelity sells in the N market, I know it does. Of course, it is a given that models must also run well. they can't just look pretty (think some early Dapol steam). Kato may be a complete system in Japan, and possibly the US too but in the UK there is but one train in 1:148 so it is largely an irrelevance in the context of what we are discussing, 

Hornby maybe cannot afford TT120 to fail, but ultimately it will be the Market that decides whether it does or not. and to be fair, that Market may be a different one completely to British N, certainly that seems to be Simon K's vision, but it remains to be seen whether it exists to the extent Hornby believes.

As to some kind of conspiracy theory regarding the price of Farish products and that they are starving the Market to keep prices high, respectfully I think that it completely and utterly wrong. Prices of raw materials have rocketed, the cost of power has gone up, wages have risen in China over the last few years and shipping costs have reached levels that would never have been envisaged a few years back. Given the detail of Farish models, it requires a lot of parts and therefore greater assembly time and here they are especially vulnerable to wage costs and retention of skilled staff. Bachmann (and others) have to make a profit to survive, and products will be priced to the end-user with that in mind. They do not make obscene margins and nor do their retailers, but no business will survive long pricing at a loss. Will the next run of Mk1s be £80? I think that is very unlikely, but to allow sufficient margin for everyone, somewhere in the high £40's seems conceivable.

Where I absolutely do agree with you is that Bachmann's GF product range of late includes far too many obscure and "niche" items, and this appears to be at the expense of the production of "bread and butter" items. British N is much more of a modeller's scale than a collector's one and as I have already said, Bachmann do need to wake up to this and prioritise production accordingly. 

I noticed in my Bachmann Times that as well as the items announced, previously announced re-runs of the Class 24 and Warship also appear to be due in the New Year which is a positive sign, but what troubles me most of all is the lack of steam coming through, especially in BR liveries, like green diesels they always sell like hot cakes. 

Anyway, time will tell, but perhaps it is more likely to be the likes of Sonic, RevolutioN and Rapido who give Bachmann the "wake up call" as far as British N is concerned, rather than Hornby?

Roy

2 hours ago, fezza said:

Of course we have to remember that limiting supply helps raise margins as hard-core modellers will now pay anything for a new TSO.

 

Don't be surprised if a coach that had an RRP of £40 just a few years ago is £80 in the next batch... Farish know there are desperate people who will pay the price - almost any price it seems if one looks at auction sites 

 

But also don't be surprised if very few new people buy N gauge and go to TT instead, especially if Hornby  price TT aggressively in the first couple of years to attract customers from N where they have no UK interest.

 

TT has novelty value - don't underestimate the importance of that. 0 gauge benefitted from that novelty value when Dapol launched a much smaller range a few years ago and far more people can house TT than can house 0 gauge.

I think the jury is well and truly out as far as TT is concerned at this point. Yes, Hornby have grand plans, but as yet apart from track not a single product delivered, the quality is unknown and nowhere near the number of manufacturers support it as do N (In fact Heljan and Gaugemaster have pulled out).  Hornby's marketing/sales strategy is yet to be validated and many see cutting out model shops as both morally and strategically questionable.

Looking at the A3s and A4s (albeit we are told they are pre-production) I do not personally think they compare especially well to the quality of models we are seeing in N (for example compare those locos to the roughly comparable Farish A1 and A2 - I mean just look at the depth of the "Pizza Cutter" flanges on the Hornby models...). The Mk1s from the limited pics we have seen appear to have "Design Clever" written all over then.

So, in spite of Simon Kohler's inevitably positive sales pitch, it is just as easy to argue that TT120 has none of the advantages of N but retains many of the disadvantages of OO, especially in the smaller home.

Roy

27 minutes ago, AndyB said:

 

I thought the winter announcement was meant to be the meaty one. In which case we've had the bulk of it for the current 12 months?

Hi Andy

I'm not aware that Bachmann have said that but could be I missed it somewhere, certainly this Winter's announcements have not been "bumper" by even the most optimistic person's measure!

Roy

1 hour ago, Kris said:

If they follow previous releases we would be luck to see more than one type of coach (in several liveries) and a single wagon + various locos and more Lilliput lane rtp buildings than you can shake a stick at.

Given the recent track record of building choices I think "RTP" probably means "Ready to Pee"....

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I think we need to remember, planning model train production is not some off the cuff activity, there is no throw some Mk1 moulds onto the machine and turn out a couple of thousand.

 

It probably takes three years from design to production for a new locomotive, so planning a production schedule is probably done three years before the models actually appear.  So imagine Bachmann reading this thread and thinking, good idea we need to produce some more Mk1s - it would probably be at least 2 years before we see them as the production slot has to be agreed with Kader and I doubt Kader will alter a schedule without a good financial reason for doing so.   And even once an item has a slot it is not guarateed to go to production as something else more lucrative or even as in the case of the sealed beam Peaks or 47s to stave off a competitor gaining a march on Bachmann.  This is partly why Bachmann no longer announce very far into the future, they announce what they know is in production and about to ship, manages expectations better and allows them a flexibility they didn't have when announcing things years in advance of the model actually appearing (or not appearing as happened a lot).

Yes, we are for the most part I am sure aware of the nuances of producing models even from existing tooling, it all needs to be factored into planned production slots, and if new running numbers are involved new artwork/deco samples will need to be signed off before that. However, Dapol seem to manage to pretty regularly manage re-runs of Gresley coaches, A3/A4s etc so that should not be too much of a logistical challenge.

None of us actually know precisely what negotiation is involved between Bachmann Industries and the Kader parent's factory as far as production slots go, but I agree it is entirely plausible that certain products are prioritised. However, whether the decision is at the Kader end or Bachmann Europe end we do not know and are speculating. and purely for the sake of discussion, it could just as easily be the MD of Bachmann Europe who makes the call on prioritisation of product manufacture be it new tool or existing. I have mentioned before that I noticed a distinct slow down in the amount of N being delivered after Graham Hubbard retired and David Haarhus took over, this might be coincidence but then again it might not. 

What is beyond challenge is that we have seen substantial investment in new OO and OO9 products from Bachmann in recent years but comparatively little in N apart from a few sound upgrades and a couple of MI models, certainly the transition and blue/grey modellers seems to have been particularly poorly served by Bachmann, to the point now where there is currently not a single BR steam locos actually in stock at Barwell!

Roy

10 hours ago, scottystitch said:

I honestly don't think that would be the case. I would suggest that if Farish could issue one new or re-tooled locomotive every twelve or 18 months that would be sufficient for the size of the market, and we wouldn't have ,much cause for complaint.

 

If they could re-issue existing models more often, such as 20s, 25s, 40s, 42s, 47s, Black 5s, Std 5s, (I know it's coming), 8Fs, Princess Coronations, etc., (along with regular supplies of coaching stock, that would go a long way to relieving frustrations.  I don't think the issue is really about brand new items.

 

Best

Scott.

Hi Scott

I absolutely agree. Bachmann have a huge tooling portfolio of coaches, wagons and locos without adding a single new thing to the range, the problem is that unlike Dapol who are factoring in re-runs of existing N products it doesn't seem like Bachmann have any cohesive strategy at all to do this. When we do see re-runs they are of incredibly "niche" things like NCB Brake vans and oddball Mk1 liveries rather than the mainstream things like maroon Mk1s. 

As to locos, I personally doubt we will see any of the earlier "new" BachFarish locos like Black Fives, Jubs, Scots and 4MT Mogul again, in fact I was surprised to see the tender-driven J39 in the new releases. However, it is truly surprising that a re-run of the BR 4MT Tank hasn't been higher on the list, after all there has only been one production run in two liveries - just 2016 in all. You would have thought someone at Bachmann would have recognised this (Of course it could be we will see a sound fitted upgrade someday but anyone's guess when).

So yes, without spending another penny on new tooling Bachmann could keep us happier with re-runs of existing models but "bread and butter" liveries not quirky one-offs. I mean why do a Cl20 as "River Sheaf" and not "cooking" BR Green and Blue versions?? Mabe the penny will drop eventually that British N is much more a modeller's scale rather than a collector's one.

Roy

11 hours ago, scottystitch said:

After an exchange with Bachman today I can almost guarantee that will be a no.

 

best

 

Scott. 

Hi Scott

That is disappointing as it was a really logical follow on and given their metal construction I would think quite a few survived long enough to receive the maroon livery.

Hopefully it means the focus in 2023 will be Mk1s and further runs of the more bread and butter items. 

Regards

Roy

6 minutes ago, Stefen1988 said:

This is a joke...?

Sadly not Stefen. We have been led to believe that British N is still an important part of the Bachmann Europe portfolio, but comparing the amount of "new tool" coming through in OO and OO9, adding to that the lack of re-runs in N of things like maroon and blue/grey Mk1s and on top of that the repeated pushing back of models like the 5MT, J39 it seems fairly clear now it comes a distant third in terms of investment and production capacity. The quarterly announcements have been in place for a good while now so hiding behind that as a reason and keep people "dangling" for jam tomorrow in the next quarter is now wearing extremely thin. 

Roy

Here are my two Catfish picked up at TINGS. Maurice did say that they would be doing other liveries including black, but I was far too impatient to wait for those and decided to repaint myself. I have also weathered them using powders. Other small jobs done were to replace the Leyland brown plastic wheels with metal ones and add a load to each. These are cut down Dapol ones, and on the underside of them I have added a Peco weight meaning that if removed the hopper is all visible. A nice addition to break up my uniform rake of Dapol Dogfish and fit well with the EFE Sharks. I look forward to seeing what might come next 🙂

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

 

British N has around 10% of the UK r-t-r market and I think Hornby will want/need TT:120 to get half way to that figure within 3-5 years.

 

 

More like 15-20% is my understanding.

Roy

Normally Collectors Club members will get a "heads up" shortly before the date, but thus far nothing. 

That said I would expect the next Quyarter's announcement to be next week. 

I am not expecting very much, the J39 and 5MT having been put back to May/June and June/July respectively there is clearly still a production challenge in China that is impeding things.

I am hoping the 4F is actually "on the water" so the Dec/Jan date is still realistic.

Roy

On 15/10/2022 at 15:11, AndrueC said:

I exercised several locos today and the class 08 was like a class oh dear. If I'd bought it for shunting I'd be in despair by now. It's an unreliable starter and at low speed not a reliable runner. It's okay once you get it on the mainline but obviously that's not where it's supposed to be. To be fair it might be that this is newly laid track and for sure dirt and muck had a part to play in it but the other locos were fine. On a couple of occasions when it stalled I was able to get it going again just by activating the horn implying that it hadn't stopped due to electrical issues. 

 

Is a small 0-6-0 really supposed to be this pernickety? It's a lovely looking model but a lousy runner.

I had already put sound into a Farish 08 a while before the re-tooled chassis with sound was announced.  For that I used a Peco wagon chassis as the basis for a shunter-s truck to which I added pickups and weight, this is permanently attached to the 08 and fine wires take power to the pickup terminals in the loco. With ten wheels picking up it can run nice and slowly and stalling is very rare indeed. 

I have also purchased a sound fitted green 08 from the latest batch, and after a decent period of running in to remove the chemical blacking from the treads I have found mine to be surprisingly reliable albeit not as good as the one I did myself.

Roy

11 hours ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

Hello all,

 

We have been really happy with the response to this model - so thanks to all who've commented here or told us at the show how pleased they are!

 

In terms of research, Swindon drawings are somewhat elusive but we have some good leads (thanks to those who know who they are!) and the 126 at the Bo'ness and Kinneil Railway is useful as it shares many of the distinctive cab features.  As others have correctly stated, although also being Swindon-built, the 126's differ significantly elsewhere.

 

In terms of sound, Mike has pointed out that where the prototype no longer exists we feel it wisest to leave sound projects to the aftermarket specialists; of course like all Revolution models these units will be factory fitted with a NEM decoder and wired in speaker so adding sound is straightforward.

 

I am especially grateful to those who've added details about the areas travelled by the 120s; in due course I will try to prepare a route map.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

 

Hi Ben

Like so many I am blown away by this announcement. 

Just one comment re: the sound option, as far as I can see the 120 and 126 have identical engines (150hp BUT/AEC two per power car) and transmission (4 speed manual) so a viable sound offering would certainly appear be possible by taking recordings from the 126.  It is not for me to say whether you should or should not do this, but it would certainly be the icing on the cake.

Naturally I am no expert on the two so it would be helpful for those who are to comment.

I have always thought the 126 is kind of funky having a corridor connection through the cab one end only but I guess as others have said that one is just too "niche".

Roy

4 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Two hours to go yet ....... in this part of the world !

Sorry, I was looking for the announcement of the announcement 🙂

On 24/08/2022 at 23:03, rapidoandy said:

Well Friday actually - check back at mid-day!

Is this going to be a Facebook announcement? Could be I am looking in the wrong place but can't see anything on the Rapido UK website?

Roy

Edit.. hopeful for something N Gauge, even something quite low key would be nice....

I have a large number of Farish locos with traction tyres and over quite some years can measure replacements on the fingers of one hand. There are some absolute "no-no's" in my experience: -

1. Under no circumstances ever push a loco with tyres along the track "dead" (i.e. no power) this stretches the tyres (pretty obviously as there is no wheel rotation and a lot of friction). If you MUST move a without power, lift the tyred wheels clear of the track.

2. Do not clean track with isopropyl alcohol. Although this largely evaporates it appears to leave a caustic residue on rails which attacks tyres and weakens them. Just use a good old track rubber.

To change you will need to remove the crankpin from the rear axle (Farish do a little tool for this). You should then be able to slide the old tyre out between the wheel face and inner face of the coupling rod. The new one goes in the same way and carefully slip over the wheel tread and into the groove in the wheel.

Theoretically you could replace the rear wheelset with one with no groove for the traction tyre (Farish do spares) but I would expect haulage to be compromised a fair bit, it just depends what length of trains you run, but also worth remembering that the loco is designed to run with them not without.

Do others have problems? It seems some more than others and that is why I am strict about my "do's and don'ts". With care they cause few problems in my experience.

Roy 

Wow! The decoration looks stunning!

WR one ordered and paid for already, now should I order the green London Midland one before order books close....

Decisions....

Roy

17 hours ago, shanks522 said:

Hello RevolutioN gents,

 

Any news / updates on the Pullmans?? 
 

Graham. 

Hi Graham

According to the RevolutioN website they are still at the "research" stage which I would take to mean pre-CAD. That said, the website also says order books were  anticipated to open April/May so it could be an update is due soon, some projects don't seem to have been updated on there for a while (ahem - 128!).

Regards

Roy

2 hours ago, Crepello said:

Aren't all J50 sales being handled by Rails of Sheffield? 

Patience, patience!

Yes, that is my understanding, they will be exclusive to Rails of Sheffield.

Presumably if a Q2/3 delivery they will at the very least be in production by now.

Roy

The same applies to Mk1 coaches in maroon. There used to be regular re-runs of them and other bread and butter items, but around the time Graham Hubbard retired it seemed to change - a change in strategy/policy with a new CEO maybe? Prioritising finite production capacity on OO and the new 009 range possibly?

It certainly does also seem that all R&D is now (aside from sound upgrades which to be fair is not such a bad move) largely focussed on other scales and I don't think we have seen anything totally new from the ground up yet amongst the quarterly announcements to date, but happy to be corrected. 

The last new steam loco release was the 8F at the end of 2020, the final one of three developed over quite a period prior to that (Castle, C Class and 8F). All three have been of the utmost quality and popular liveries sold through quickly. Since then I think the only steam loco at all has been the sound upgraded C Class.

I guess there remains the hope for something steamy "next" quarter but based on performance to date generally I am not holding my breath. I honestly wonder if these quarterly announcements actually do more harm than good though.

Roy

Disappointing for the  steam or steam/diesel transition modeller with not a single loco or item of rolling stock announced be it new tool or re-run off of existing tooling. That said, good news to see the bogies being sold separately, they are always useful to have available.

I am not surprised, Summer is not traditionally the modelling season and were there to be a lower key quarter I guess this was going to be the one.

What I just do not get though is why there seems no urgency to add to the steam range, there has been absolutely nothing added since way before these quarterly announcements started and I am not meaning new tool, I mean anything, and with just three steam locos in the warehouse at Barwell currently  (all less desirable liveries) I would have hoped there would be more of a priority.

It is what it is I guess, hardly life or death in the grand scheme of things, but I have to say these quarterly "announcements" don't really work well as far as I am concerned, they only serve to demonstrate how little N is coming through more visibly, raising anticipation levels and then delivering disappointment.

Roy