Roy L S

HI Dave The snow-fence is an interesting feature, which I am contemplating the most effective way to recreate, but as space is limited much of the bleakness of the hillside will need to be recreated on the backscene. The culvert is understandably (as it would probably not be something most would photograph with all those lovely locos around!) something I only have clarity as regards the top part of, again any information would be gratefully received. The layout will be somewhat compressed, as it will only be 7ft in length overall, but Whitrope Tunnel will form one scenic break, the other may have to be no more than a "hole in the sky". Regards Roy

Brilliant! I will e-mail you off list! Many thanks! Roy

I am currently building a small N Gauge model based on Whitrope Siding in the late 1950's early 60's period. I am going to be limited to the structures I can include due to size limitations, but will need to constuct a model of the signal box and ancilliary buildings that surround it (not the Cottages though, sadly they would be off-scene to the front of the layout). I have, thanks to WHRA's website a good plan of the site, plus I have located a number of pics of the box itself from the Web and books in my possession, though I could do with more. However if anyone can point me in the direction of any drawings of the box, or indeed any useful photos of the location and surrounds it would be really helpful. I am on a bit of a tight timescale, having committed to having it ready for our Club's Exhibition at Berkhamseted on October the 8th, so anything anyone might be able to do to help me speed up the process would be very much appreciated. Roy

Sorry Alan, It wan't until after I'd posted my reply that I remembered it was you who had advised me regarding the issue with your HST motor and overheating Dapol motors generally (put it down to senility!). Regards Roy

Hi Steven Assuming that it uses the same "Super Creep" motor as recent steam locos (which I believe it does), it may be worth checking it to see how hot it is getting. I recently had an issue with a new B1 whereby, having oiled as per instructions, after only three or four hours of running it started to run slower. I found I had to had to crank the controller round further to get a similar speed as previously and the motor started to get very hot indeed after only a couple of laps of my layout(too hot to touch). I noticed signs of the tender body starting to distort slightly. Clearly something was terminal with the motor, I stopped using it and it went back for replacement, the new one thus far is fine. I say this as I recall someone also mentioning they had an HST which ran slow, started drawing a lot of current and got very hot (which they sent back). Please ignore me if you have already checked this out. Regards Roy

From other posts is seems that there are a good number of Dapol HSTs that do run at a true scale speed and some that do not. I very much doubt it is anything to do with a deliberate design feature especially given that the motor is running as hot and drawing as much current as Alan says, seems far more likely to me that the issue going to be one of excessive friction somewhere in the drivetrain. My Dapol 66 (GBRF early batch) has a similar issue, runs very slow and hot. Roy

Colin Heard does have an e-mail address: - colin.h@manx.net I was told he may not necessarily get back to you that quickly via e-mail, but that said I experienced no problem when I contacted him this way. However you will still need to either call him or fax him with any order. Regards Roy

Sorry, it would have paid me to read the post more carefully :-( Roy

A Cauliflower, eh? Fantastic ... we've never had an LNWR 0-6-0 before, and it's much needed. The LMS boys will love it ... but more to teh point, us pre-groupers will love it! We have had one, Colin Heard has already done the LNWR G2 "super D". Cheers Roy

Not unusual, Colin Heard often shuts up shop for a few weeks at a time. I do not know if he operates completely on his own, I had always assumed he does. I believe a fair few elements of the work gets subbed out though. I can olny endorse what others say, good robust reliable locos which run well and can be detailed for those who would wish to. I would personally recommend them. Thanks to him we have all sorts of locos in N RTR that the 00 boys do not have, mostly pre-Grouping. Roy

Hi Tim Yes, generally one loco each year. I would be surprised if anyone (Apart from Colin Heard) knows yet what it will be, but I do concur that the two criteria you mention are probably a given. One I would love to see would be a D16/3 even if there did have to be compromises with the tender to fit the mechanism. Otherwise how about something with a Scottish flavour - a "Glen" would fit the criteria perfectly. Probably both a mile out... Regards Roy

Hi Grahame Ok, you do make a fair point there, the Brit is not the most expensive RTR British steam loco to date, and others are "only" a matter of £15 or so less RRP wise. To me the Peco Collett was way over-priced for the British N Market even with a chip on board, nice loco though it is (Although there are some who question the dimensions of the tender). It's the price you pay for UK manufacture I guess. I used the figure of £120 simply because that is the RRP of the Brit and I do not necessarily think that it is dear for a loco, but my expectaton for that money would be greater than the Brit delivers as an overall package compared to it's peers (notwithstanding it's undoubted good features). It just does not have the finesse as a product I would expect whereas other less expensive models do. To put it another way, I can buy a Farish "Black Five" for £104.95 RRP or about £84 discounted. As a fair comparison the best price I have seen a Brit at is £109.95. As an overall package the Black Five is an equally good product, better in some aspects possibly not as good in others and the Brit just does not to me justify the price differental. The actual price is irrelevant as we move forward, you rightly point out that we will soon be paying more for either, it is the differential that is to me not justified. Regards Roy

Hi Grahame £120 may not be a lot to you, but I suspect it would make a serious dent in a lot of modelling budgets, and many would I think have high expectations for that kind of money! Plenty like you seem to be very pleased with the Brit and the chassis from all accounts is well thought out and performs very well indeed. Due credit to Dapol for that, but a new benchmark? No, not for me, and the picture posted more eloquently says why than any words I can use when you look below the Running Plate. For example (and ignoring issues already discussed in this thread) bits of bent wire for slide-bars? Granted it works but is not really the most sophiticated engineering solution. Even ignoring Farish models for me the finesse of the Ixion Manor surpasses it! Regards Roy

Hi Martin Dapol have been great innovators with such things as close-coupling (Even on some 4 wheel wagons!) and underfloor mechanisms, coach lighting etc, all previously unheard of in British N. Their constant innovation has (I think) forced Bachmann to look over their shoulder and lift their game as a consequence with the results we are seeing now (Thinks Class 24, 108, Scot, 4MT Tender etc, all awesome models). Yes, some of the earlier Dapol steam models (45xx, M7 and Ivatt) have been something of a disappointment to me personally, but the good thing about Dapol is that they do seem to learn and get it better with each release they make and my more recent B17 is a model I am really very happy with. Most it seems are more than happy with their Dapol "Brits" especially in terms of the way the chassis performs, and the picture of Alan's after he has weilded the paintbrush shows how good it could (and arguably should) have looked from the factory, whereas frankly it looks unfinished. Yes,sorting it out is possible but on a loco costing £120 (in fact any RTR loco irrespective of price)I do not feel one should have to. I do not consider this observation to be "manufacturer bashing" it is an honest objective statement, and knowing Dapol they will respond positively with future releases, so I will sit tight and wait for 70013 to be released Cheers Roy

Hi Alan Great work! What you have done really does make the Brit look so much better, all basic cosmetic stuff but what a difference it makes! It really does beg the question - how much more effort would it have taken in the factory to do something similar and deliver a model to this standard making it look as good at it reputedly performs? Cheers Roy

Hi Alan Thanks for sharing that with us. Was that 40 coaches? I lost count. Very impressive indeed. It does not alter my thoughts regarding the model overall though. There are too many cosmetic issues (Crosshead screws & black while motion is unblackened making them stand out even more, too thick driving wheel rims, drivers unblackenened or if they are blackened not matching other wheels, motion rather chunky and shiny). It is pretty clear that a good deal of thought had gone into the design, it just feels as if in a rush to get it into the shops too many compromises in terms of final finishing have been accepted. No, not acceptable for a £120 loco to me. Nonetheless they appear popular enough and it is perhaps significant that as yet I have not heard mention of a single mechanical failure anywhere. Final conclusion, good yes, a new pinnacle no, not overall but it could have been. I am going to hold tight for a future batch and see if some of these cosmetic issues are improved upon I think. Roy

There are now some pics of what I assume are the production models on the Rails of Sheffield Website. No question it is a very nice model, but the matters raised in earlier postings do not appear to have been addressed (on this batch anyway). Like the B1 the motion remains shiny with the screws blackened. Even ignoring my thoughts on the use of crosshead screws they would have been much easier to live with if either chromed to match the rods or the motion had been blackened. Driving wheels still have thick treads and do not appear properly blackened? (Although maybe a trick of the camera and hopefully they look better "in the flesh"?). Cab roof/tender height mismatch still there. Reports on performance and haulage have been universally positive, plenty will not care a jot about the issues I mention and I am sure it will do very nicely. But for me not quite the benchmark yet. However looking at all of my newer locos the one I think stands out for me even more than the newer Black Five is the Farish Scot - the way it looks and runs it is just "right" somehow. Roy

Seconded Alan I'd be very interested to see how the production Brits compare to those given to the mags etc a couple of months back (which we were subsequently told were not the fully finished article). Roy

Hi Alan I think from what was said on the Dapol stand at TINGS they should be with us anytime now. Your summary probably captures my thoughts too pretty much, forgetting all the spin and hype, hopefully another significant step forward, the issue of what is "best" and what some do or do not consider acceptable compromises will always be very subjective anyway (As we can see from this thread!). I remain hopeful of a nice surprise when production batches do arrive and if that transpires and feeback on quality of production models is good I may well reconsider my purchasing decision and get one after all. Roy

Well well, where or when that was this posted? This seems to be becoming a one-man crusade! I sincerely hope it is unnecessary and the model ends up speaking for itself when we see the final finished product delivered, hopefully having dealt with at least some of the "niggles" identified on the review samples. On the subject of poor Farish performance, all I can say is none of mine run poorly, in fact they run very nicely indeed and that is good enough for me. Whether the Brit will prove to run better we have yet to see as in terms of any direct comparisons none have been made yet as far as I know. I suspect it will be a matter of opinion to some extent anyway, depending on what is important to different modellers, for example pulling power v's quietness of mechanism, simplicity of maintenance and reliability, indeed we do not even yet know yet how good Dapol's QC has been (will be?) on the production samples, and I say that not to be inflamatory, it is simply a fact as we sit here now. Roy

Grahame, actually a hex-nut is a lot closer (in a generic sense) to the look of a crankpin that a crosshead screw and is frequently used by manufacturers in different scales, albeit by necessity, especially in N they can be considerably larger than would be the case in reality. You say you "understand" it does not represent a prototype crankpin, by which I take it you mean you have not checked for yourself? I have already said that the manufacturer of the model is irrelvant to me, it appears that you prefer to be selective as to which parts of postings you respond to. The original question was to ask if the Dapol Brit was a new pinnacle in British N steam. The opinion of Model Rail, myself and a good few others is that there are too many small niggles for it to claim that mantle, albeit the review models may not (hopefully) represent what is now in transit. I admit after all the hype I am disappointed. As a young child my first "big" steam loco was a Triang Hornby 00 Gauge Britannia (With synchrosmoke and that horrible "chuff chuff" sound). It remains one of my favourite steam locos. I am not anti-Dapol, I have already acknowledged that there appears to be a good deal of innovation in the Brit's chassis. I take exception to your repeated insinuations that this is the case. I am not the only one making the observations about crankpins, wheel tread thickesses, and the cab-tender height mismatch. For the record I have a good number of ther products, 12 locos including a B17, two 9Fs two Ivatt Tanks plus 16 Gresley coaches 6 Colletts and numerous other items of rolling stock. I could ask you why you feel the need to be what appears overly defensive? I am assuming that like me your only connection with Dapol is as a buyer of their products??? I notice you have on this thread now turned your attention to berating the yet to be released Farish B1. Your call, I'm not going to rise to that one. I saw it a TINGS and was suficiently impressed to order two of them. If it is the same as the Black Five it will have hexes on front and rear axles and a small slotted screw on the centre one holding the valve-gear and other motion on. I acknowledge I'd prefer to see a different solution there too..If you dont like it you dont have to buy it. This has taken up too much of my time, I am happy to leave it there, although I am sure you will insist on having the last word. Roy

Because Grahame it detracts totally from a model which has a £120 price-tag and bears absolutely NO resemblance generically or otherwise to ANY type of crankpin on ANY prototype loco I can find. Given that, in my opinion it is an unimaginitive cheap and nasty solution to having to remove the connecting rods on a loco to replace traction tyres. I stress it is my opinion, but nonetheless equally valid to yours. Does that answer your question adequately? Roy

It is probably pretty academic because I doubt it will happen but had hex bolts replaced the crosshead screws my suggestion was that Dapol include a little box-spanner with the loco rather than people having to source one themselves. That said, I have a set somewhere rather similar to jewellers screwdrivers picked up from a "Pound Store" some while back. It may be that with blackened valve-gear on the production models these screws will be less obtrusive but I would still argue that on a £120 product a better solution to the issue of removing rods to replace traction tyres might easily have been found. No question at all it is streets and streets ahead of the old Minitrix "Brit" but as that had it's origins in the early 1970's and was based around a german loco's chassis I would be really concerned if it hadn't been the case! Regards Roy

Grahame I am glad you chose to "snip" that particular sentence. If you read it again you will notice that I said cheap LOOKING. I have no idea (and no particular wish to find out) the unit cost as versus the hex bolt and impact if any on production costs. It was, as you acknowledge a subjective observation, it is the impact of the screws on the overall look of the product that grates with me (and I note others). Go look at prototype steam locos and tell me how many you can find with a monsterous Phillips type screw holding the connecting rods on I also said I had looked at lots of pictures of prototypes and acknowledged that the different types of crankpins used would be a nightmare for model designers and that overall I felt the Hex bolt is the best GENERIC solution. I was not "shooting from the hip" I had done some research to check. The vagaries of the Riddles Standards is a case in point and the ideal solution would be to manufacture exactly to the spec of each prototype but that is not going to happen I suspect. Who would have thought there would be different crankpins on front and rear wheelsets of the same loco for example? I do not think I am being excessively or unnecessarily negative about Dapol, I am fully entitled to my opinion and I would have made the same observations whoever had produced the model, be it Farish, Fleischmann, Dapol or whoever, the manufacturer is irrelevant. Steam Loco wise, yes, I will not deny that at present my preference is Farish, I think they are better engineered, run better and are and better finished. Just in the same way I prefer Volkswagen cars to say Ford or Citroen. I am allowed to express this opinion and I express it as a consumer only (that is to say I have no other connection). Regards Roy

Hi Kris That would have the advantage of not having to remanufacture any of the existing loco components but how would it be held securely in position with what can be quite rapidly moving parts I wonder? I suspect it is far too late to do anything now about the initial production batches which are presumably still in a container on the "high seas" somewhere, but to be fair to Dapol they are not adverse to introducing improvements on future batches of models as they proved with the 9Fs so who knows. What appears universally recognised is that in spite of these "niggles" the Brit has a well designed mechanism and runs and pulls well. I am content to wait and see how the production batches compare to the test samples given to the likes of "Model Rail" hopefully not long now. Regards Roy