John_Miles

I built an engineer's train around 15 years ago using the components suggested above. I asked around about the red colour and the advice I received was red lead as in primer colour. I can't absolutely say it is correct but being colour blind helps me to believe it is just fine.

Is that Dave Stone's new masterpiece?

I sometimes think the definition of a model railway exhibition is an event attended by Jerry Clifford (and of course Kim), the Rolleys and Bernie Baker. Bernie always turns up at Cardiff so this show seems to tick all the boxes.

There are reports of coal trains still being worked from GCG to Onllywn, presumably for washing and blending, so it looks like the OP (By me) was premature. Let's hope they continue because when the cease the N&B from Neath north and the line from Pantyfynnon to GCG will probably be closed.

The Taff Vale railway used elevated disk signals.

There was an S scale Cambrian a few years ago by John Coulter (I may have got his name wrong - the man from Leicester who always wore a leather jerkin).

The Midland trains to Hellifield went via Blackburn and then the Chatfield line, not via Colne. So far as I am aware no Midland trains ran west of Colne. Even in the 1950s, I can remember catching trains from Skipton to Colne to see the grandparents in Nelson. The trains terminated at Colne and we either caught the bus or another train. The Midland service to Scotland from Liverpool went directly north to Blackburn, not via Victoria.

Many of the engines that were used on the High Barnet services, numbers 7477-81, were fitted with push-pull gear and sent to the Swansea Vale - less exciting than racing A3s on the East Coast main line. The transfer took place around 1934. They retained the brackets used for the destination boards on the NLR services.

I can only answer with respect to the Swansea Vale Railway. Most of the traffic had ceased. Imperial Smelting at Llansamlet closed in 1971 so traffic north of Upper Bank notionally ceased at that time but I can remember seeing lines of 16 ton mineral wagons at Six Pit in the early 1980s. On the line to Morriston, there were up to 3 trains per day to the scrap yards, worked by class 37 or 08 shunters.

Looks like a good line up. The East Dorset Gang of Four were getting on last time I saw Flintcombe so they must be truly ancient by now - good layout, in fact the whole line up looks good. What about traders?

HSTs used to run to Pembroke Dock (possibly still do). Before the barriers were automated, the crossing at Manorbier was hand worked by the guard, who got down, opened the gates, waited for the train to go through and then shut the gates behind.

The up and down relief lines immediately east of central are currently out of use, so it looks like The Johnster's prediction about lowering the line under the bridges is happening.

I remember catching express trains to Manchester at Chesterfield and they went via the Dore curve and the Hope Valley line into Piccadilly in 1969. I think the service continued for a year or two but I can't be specific about dates. Where the trains originated, I have no idea. They were hauled by Peaks.

I forgot the GNR. It was a partner in CLC so I should have remembered. IIRC they mostly ran goods trains to Manchester, both by the GCR route over Woodhead and the Midland via Pinxton, the Erewash and Hope Valley lines. Their huge warehouse still exists in Deansgate.

The Midland also operated into Victoria. There is a photo in the current Backtrack of a Johnson 4-4-0 on the L&Y. They ran trains northwards over the L&Y to Hellifield to connect with their Scottish expresses. The Midland's usage of London Road was fairly short. They used the MS&L side (layer GCR) but things became rather crowded so they were given notice to quit. Central opened just in time so after that their trains to the south used Central. I have fond memories of Central, it was fairly quiet but rather grand. The Midland also had a huge goods depot at Ancoats. Finally you missed the GWR. They operated into Manchester via running powers over the LNWR (IIRC) from Warrington. I think they must also have used the MSJA.

My original post was in response to the preceding comments about the declining attendance at Scaleforum and the fact that RailEx attracts more people. If you want to find out why people are not attending, you need to hear from people who used to attend but no longer do. While some reasons maybe non-controversial such as health, age, most of the others are going to be negative. Nevertheless, if you are going to have a valid enquiry then you need to hear from such people. Preferably you need to hear from a large sample of such people to get a valid response. My views represent those of 9 fine scale (but EM) modellers, so only a small sample but as any statistician will tell you, some data is better than none. We meet on Wednesdays for our modelling sessions and in the past we have always held a discussion about who was going to Scaleforum. The last time we went was either last year or the year before (apologies for my poor memory) when just 3 of us went. We were disappointed for the reasons I stated above. Interestingly, this year the possibility of going to Scaleforum was not even discussed. It has fallen off our agenda. Getting angry about what I said is understandable but illogical. If you are going to tackle the problem of falling attendances you need to have some data to work with. It is no use listening to the converted because they will tell you all is well, as has happened in this thread. However, given the anger and vitriol in response to my post, I doubt that anybody else will dare to say anything negative which is a shame because this is an ideal forum for collecting a wide range of views. A couple of further comments to get you all further incensed. Poor running - there has been an ongoing discussion about this in Scalefour Newsletter. One person has even resorted to using EM wheels, which to my mind negates the reason for using P4. Half finished layouts - there is a comment at the beginning of this thread promoting the show and saying there will not be many unfinished layouts so it would seem it has already been recognised as a problem. And finally my most contentious post about the attitude of some P4 modellers. I have been fortunate enough to be associated with some 4mm EM layouts which have won best in show awards including at RailEx. Twice I have overheard comments from P4 modellers about the fact that the winning layout was only EM.

OK, so I "put the boot in" and got the expected brickbats. Criticism always hurts, whether justified or not. However, if you just go into denial mode and don't even think about it, you never progress. I have over the years attended Scaleforums from back in the days when it was in Leatherhead. I haven't been every year, probably every two or three years (I model in EM) and sometimes there are superb layouts. When P4 is good it is outstanding but I suspect that many people find the standards and skills required to meet them very challenging. This I suspect is why some Scaleforums have layouts which don't run too well.

Perhaps they are in fancy dress?

Having given you the pedantic answer in my post above, I tend to agree with bike2steam. It's your train set so run what you like.

I can give you some reasons why I and other people from Cardiff don't go anymore. Too many half built layouts, some of which are not even operational. I understand that things were better this year but I didn't go because it has been poor in the past.. Too many layouts which don't run well. You P4 people are supposed to be the cream of 4mm modelling - you have proclaimed yourselves as such - but your models often don't live up to the hype. Aylesbury is hard to get to from South Wales, about 3 hours each way. The traders are good and that is an attraction but if I had to choose I would always pick RailEx. Again good traders and layouts that run and have things like scenery.

The Bachman 1F is a 1377 class. The one shown at Barrow Road is a 1121 class. What is the difference? The 1377 class had a 7' 4" and 7' 8" wheelbase, the 1121 class had a 7' 4" and 8' 2" wheelbase. They were also originally built with a different boiler which had a higher pitch and so the front cab windows were higher. Although they were often rebuilt with the same boiler as the 1377 class, the cab window position stayed the same.

Goods trains and freight trains. The Midland changed over sometime early in the 20th Century. Personally I still prefer goods trains but then my wife says I am a fuddy duddy.

Anthracite was sold in specific sizes, it was part of the marketing so there were peas, beans, nuts and culm for example Have a look at the Anthracite wagons in the relevant Keith Turton book - I think it s Volume 4.

Hydraulic action in public?? Is this allowed under the Decency Act.

As Sandy (aka Penlan) says above, I am colour blind but my understanding of paints of this era is that they were somewhat variable in colour and the application of varnish also had an impact. So being too pedantic about colours is not worth the trouble. Also scale has an impact on colour. Precision Paints IIRC alter the colour of their paints so they look right on 4mm models. So there you go, a serious post about colour.