shreds

Good as they were in the day, I am totally confident that Jason and the crew will develop a better Mk3 than Jouef produced. Cost wise, there will be no expensive problems with the tilt reproduction, as it was not a tilting train, and whilst the carriages had BT5 vice BT10 bogies and a different electrics/jumpers, the detail differences should mean that it will be possible to reproduce 1x power car body, 1x 1st class coach body, 1x 2nd class coach body, 1x TRUK Kitchen car body, 1x TRSB restaurant/buffet catering vehicle body; the other differences being largely cosmetic in a model, and not particularly difficult to reproduce in 4mm. And no cheese butties to wedge under doors. Paint differences and a second power car, being possibly as a dummy, could be purchasers' own choices. Those worrying about cost are probably not going to have to worry too much, plus there is likely to be a lead time for these to be produced, meaning diligent saving over the next say 12 months will allow a version of the train to be obtained. My one plea to Jason is:- like the APT-E, make it without compromise, (in fact, with less compromise as it doesn't have to tilt), and ensure that it is once again P4 compatible. I will be looking like the APT-E, to recreate the complete 1973 train...

It may be the camera sensor/picture that is showing up the sparkles of course? I have a silver LT underground set and it looks fine until it comes under the scrutiny of the camera and the spectral highlights in the colours then show up really strongly, much more so than on BR Blue/Green of other models. I rather think that someone will come up with a 3D printed interior....I certainly hope so.......I will place my order now, if anyone is thinking about it!

I would rather it be spot on, than rushing it for the sake of a few weeks. I doubt many of these will be from Santa for the kiddies, probably more from 'Santa' to self

Kit, That is such a good explanation and exactly what my conundrum had been. I had been aware of the chamfer adjacent to the power cars but wrongly assumed all the trailers were the same. Of course going to 'the horses mouth' so to speak, will always bring a suitably erudite reply. So good! Thank you again.

Kit, The 'chamfer' to which I refer is located mid way up the body of the coach and is difficult to describe, but is evident to Mk4 coaching stock and APT-P vehicles, and I was always under the impression that this was related to keeping in gauge when tilting (or designed potential tilting in the case of there mk4s). Maybe it wasn't, but it is a distinctive feature of all other Mk4 and APT-P vehicles and is clearly shown on this GNER vehicle at KX, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_225#/media/File:British_Rail_Mark_4_at_Kings_Cross.jpg with the 'chamfer' extending from the cantrail, forward and downwards over the door to approximately where the red stripe is, before returning backwards to finish at buffer height on the rear of the vehicle. The E train didn't have that and neither did ADB975636 Lab 8 Pilot. Hence the reason why I questioned which batch Lab 8 came from? Thanks for your continued replies on this by the way.

Bit more researching, this time into the POP train. I clearly recall this in both its guises as both the space frame (PC3 & PC4) and the later clad version (ADB975634/5). However the coach often pictured in between these two in later days, Lab Coach 8, 'Pilot' ADB975636 is described as an APT-P coach. Looking at the ends the side tilt 'chamfer' is missing (that appears on the APT-P and on the later, still running IC225 coaches). My question therefore (probably once again aimed at Mr Tilt or other knowledgeable members) is:- was this coach an additional 'APT-E design' coach, that was created to allow APT-P testing with the POP vehicles? It doesn't appear to be taken from the E train as that seems to have gone intact to the NRM at York in 1976 as four vehicles. As far as I can find out, all APT-P coaches would have the side chamfer, which the E train doesn't, due to the 'joint modules'?

Is there any account that we can contribute towards the Conservation and Support Group directly? I really don't think it should be solely down to you guys funding it, if others are willing to help.

The only people who have created this situation it would seem are Locomotion. There is no jumping to assumptions. The facts are clear for all to see. And as an admin you should know that as this is a forum everyone is entitled to their opinion. If I am not allowed to express what is a fair and reasonable view from those who shelled out the money then perhaps you need to go and read a legal textbook on contract law. Locomotion have managed to update their website but have been incredibly quiet here when comment is now needed.

I entirely agree with jjb1970, and yes it did say somewhere that you had until 30th April to order and there would be unlikely to be a further production run, so jib1970 is 100% correct. I ordered two sets last year soon after first announcement and have topped that with coaches since. Not that I ever intend selling any, it is such an iconic piece of railway history that I grew up with so one is for my display cabinet the other for the layout. I travelled especially to York Exhibition to see the preproduction sample and was not disappointed. So who is at fault? I would guess that Locomotion have underwritten say 500/750/1000 sets and have failed to attain that in pre orders. (Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong). These pre orders or effective crowd funding rely on trust. .......The trust here has been broken. I am now very very disappointed that their word cannot be adhered to. In fact it is effectively breach of contract. If I didn't want the APT-E model so much I would now commence refund procedures. They will not get any future orders from me and I hope others will note that Locomotion/Rapido cannot be trusted.

Thanks Kit. I have got a copy of Hugh Williams book somewhere in the loft....must dig it out, as it must be ten years since I looked at it. You are undoubtedly a star with such fantastic resources. Eternally grateful.

Just one more question. The E train clearly got down to the GW mainline around Swindon and Didcot via the MML with pics of it also at St Pancras and obviously between Derby and Old Dalby / Edwalton. But did it get anywhere else such as the Duffield slab based track north of Derby, or to Mickleover? Are there any records of its travels and dates?

So I know that the E train was only ever four vehicles and the 'half sets' of the P trains were 7 vehicles with an in-service design of 14 max vehicles when combined together. But before the E morphed into the P version, what had been the thinking behind the potential size of an E train? Was that also 14 or was it less? I know this is all theoretical, but it would be interesting to know, (if anyone does have an answer, Mr Tilt perhaps?) and might boost the sales of spare coaches (!). I already have a view on this, but just wanted to see what others thought. Oh and Jason....how about a POP train, to sit alongside the APT-E?

Phenomenal. No other words for it at York.

Isn't the tracked hovercraft still extant but looking unloved at Peterborough, visible from the ECML?

That marvellous photo that adorned the rear cover of our Physics textbook! I clearly recall the Radcliffe and Duffield PACT track sections. Always seemed a shame that they laid the PACT in the former up goods line formation at Duffield, resulting in trains slowing to almost walking pace to traverse the slew to pick up the PACT track rather than laying conventional track on the goods and incorporating the PACT track on the up main so that line speed could be maintained after a suitable settling in period? Maybe the need for clearance from the down main or not wanting to relay the up goods first, were factors? Can anyone confirm that the third section of this type of track laid in the Glasgow Queen Street High Level tunnels a few years later as I don't recall any other on my UK travels at that time?

Forget sound modules, for those of you with long memories of such musical creations, this year is the 50th Anniversary of Moog producing their first synth and there is a special event on in Bloomsbury, London on 11th October and a few classic synth bands playing too. Mark Jenkins "Klaus Schulze" and "Tangerine Dream" sets (live), plus Moog UK distribution demos and more. Relieve your youth! Tickets £18.99 from moog50london@gmail.com