rodent279

Somewhere, someone must have a definitive history of the EE 350BHP shunter, and it's derivatives, and where these locos were exported to! I can think of 7 countries outside of the UK:- Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Malaysia, Sudan, Egypt & Australia. Can anyone add any?

Cheers N

Agreed - the Malaysian ones are English Electric (Preston) manufacture. There is a photo of one somewhere being loaded onto a ship (or unloaded) with the EE 'built by' poster clearly in view, stuck on the back end.

In fact, looking at Ray's first post again, no 402 looks astonishingly like the early pre-war LMS shunters.

No.405 looks very similar to a photo of a Malaysian machine i have seen some photos of on Flickr.

Very small numbers, two in fact - both going into industrial service and (happily) both preserved.  In the same era, broadly similar machines were supplied to Malaya (as it was then) and Sudan, being of metre and 3'6" gauge, respectively.

 

All these shunters can trace their ancestry to early designs of the 1930s.  English Electric had gained a team of highly skilled diesel engineers from the aeronautical industry following the crash of the R-101 Airship at Beauvais, and from it developed their standard 'K' series of engines.  An early demonstrator was built by Hawthorn Leslie in 1934 and fitted with an EE engine rated at 300hp.  It was acquired by the LMS and became the fore-runner of a production series of ten locomotives built for that railway.

 

Almost contemporaneously, very similar 3'6" gauge versions of those LMS locomotives were built by Hawthorn Leslie and supplied to Sudan Government Railways and South Africa.  Here is a picture of one of three Hawthorn Leslie locomotives (HL 3867/1936) that were supplied to New Consolidated Goldfields Ltd. (Vogelstruisbult Gold).  After passing through the ownership of Zincor (Zinc Corporation), this locomotive was set aside for preservation at the museum being established by SANRASM, Millsite (Krugersdorp), where the picture was taken.  Unlike the many steam locomotives that fell victim to organised scrap metal thieves there, the diesels survived the onslaught and this locomotive was removed to the Reefsteamers depot at Germiston in 2014.  For those that care to make comparison, the similarity to the early LMS diesel-electrics will be apparent and its historical value enhanced since none of those locomotives survive.

 

K1C95028b.jpg

Fascinating, I knew nothing of the South African & Sudanese connections.

There seems to be very little information online about the Egyptian "08's". I wonder if any survive?

cheers N

More here

 

http://www.victorianrailways.net/motive%20power/fdie/fdie.html

 

Technically more like a Class 11 (LMS design) since the Victorian locos had the 4ft wheels rather than the 4ft 6in of the 08/09.

 

http://users.tpg.com.au/sllyname/model_vr/VRdiesel-v1-partA.pdf.

 

Page 10 for plan.

There were also very similar machines sold in small numbers to Sweden :-

https://flic.kr/p/6ZCkV2

and 15 sold to Egypt:-

https://flic.kr/p/w86oMo

& some to Denmark, but I can't find any photos.

Edit:-found it! http://www.jernbanen.dk/motor_solo.php?s=9&lokid=21

The Danish machine was the former WD 70273, built Derby in 1945, taken into DSB stock as traktor no. 6 in 1954. It appears to have worked at Korsor, Helsingor & Copenhagen, being scrapped in 1974.

There's also these:-

https://flic.kr/p/sZHj3k

https://flic.kr/p/w86oMo

Slightly off topic, but seems like an appropriate thread-what was the furthest north in the UK that a CIWL or fourgon car ever reached? Did any make it north of Londres?

cheers N

Fascinating thread. I could read threads like this all day!

Going slightly OT, I know Westerns made it to Bletchley, Wolverton, Northampton, Bedford & Luton, on stone trains, and at least one each of a Hymek & Warship to Bletchley on specials, but I wonder if a 22 ever made it to any of those locations? Does anyone know?

Cheers

N

If you drive along the section between J18 & J19, you might notice there are a set of half-built slip roads already in place. Although you'd want to build a South-East chord to avoid a reversal at Yate, assuming we're talking about retaining London services.

 

And yes, a station there would have saved me the trouble of having to get through the Hambrook Lights/Hambrook Lane. Frankly it's easier to get to Temple Meads...

In fact, moving slightly off topic, it's interesting to speculate whether, if the GWR had gained control of the Bristol & Gloucester instead of the Midland, the Badminton route would have had an east-south connection allowing London trains to reach BTM via Mangotsfield.

I think you're right, although that would (probably) have been at the expense of XC not calling at Bristol Parkway. I've always thought that the Mangotsfield route would have been ideal for the Voyager service, plus some of the freight that currently goes via Filton Bank.

The thing is, Parkway itself is not that well sited. If the MR via Mangotsfield had survived, a parkway could have been built somewhere near Westerleigh, or slightly further south, near what is now Lyde Green.

With the ring road nearby, & M4 a mile or so distant, I would think that would be as good as Parkway if not better. Of course, an extra junction off the M4 would be required-but that has been needed for at leat the last 10 yrs, if not longer.

Fascinating. My sister lived in Bristol from 1978 until a couple of weeks ago, and I've lived in Downend since 2006. Despite many visits to Bristol during the 80's & 90's, I've no real memory of either the flyover, or the railway bridge outside TM.
Fray Bentos's photos are addictive!
Cheers N

On a related note, doors anyone know if any maroon locos, i.e. Westerns or Warships, ever carried arrows? I know some gem locos did.

Cheers N

Some years earlier than the time you mention, I remember seeing a piece in Modern Railways sometime in about 1980, about the conversion of the last stretch of 6.25kv to 25kv, in the Liverpool St area. There was a photo of an AC electric used for testing - it was either an 85 or an 86/3, can't remember which.

And I would imagine that ADB968021, the former 84009, would have been used for load testing. Though I've no evidence for that.

I am cheating slightly here, because this is not just an 85, but an 86 and 81 as well.

 

 

85025 86221 81016 eus 27:2:83.jpg

 

85025 86221 81016 at the buffers, Euston 27th February 1983.

Either that's not 81016, or it's not 1983. 81016 was the loco written off in the accident at Linslade Tunnel, in the early hours of 9th December 1982.

Cheers N

Just to bump this thread, I notice there are several shots of 85's at Stratford, and one at Woodgrange Park and Dagenham Dock on flickr in the 1989-1991 period on the Garston-Dagenham workings. AFAIK Roarers would've been extremely rare over Great Eastern metals as the NLL wasn't wired for freight until 1989. Does anyone know if they had any other booked work over the Great Eastern in their twilight years, and if 81's ever appeared? Would love to see a shot of an 85 at Maryland, Forest Gate or Barking if anyone has one to scan in!

Some years earlier than the time you mention, I remember seeing a piece in Modern Railways sometime in about 1980, about the conversion of the last stretch of 6.25kv to 25kv, in the Liverpool St area. There was a photo of an AC electric used for testing - it was either an 85 or an 86/3, can't remember which.

They lost the 2nd pan when they were dual braked, in the early 70's. I'd say by about 1973 they'd all have one pan.

Cheers N

No, I am l pretty sure all had marker lights when they were withdrawn. The only exception may be 85027 & 033, which were early casualties in 1983. Think one of the two may have had dots.

Cheers N

Looking at it, I don't think it is 163 actually. Here is a photo taken in Feb 1981:-

https://flic.kr/p/8htEao

and here is one taken in July 1981:-

https://flic.kr/p/dMtgY5

I think 163 is tattier along the side around the mid-height band. Also, there is a small rust patch just to the left of the left grab rail, clearly visible in both photos, but absent in mine. Thoughts anyone?

cheers N

17 bogies would have been well off the end of the platform though wouldn't it?

Do you know what, I thought it was a long shot posting the question, I didn't really expect an answer, except in vague terms along the lines of "likely to be x, y z" etc. RMWEB comes up trumps again!

The problem is that the 12yr old me had the line in the book mentality-I didn't really take notes, except to scribble numbers down on scraps of paper, that then got discarded/lost after the numbers had been underlined in the book! So I have no record of van nos, or even of the list of locos I saw in the works! It's an Instamatic photo, so no chance of getting a van no.

I would imagine it is 163, I can't imagine there being two van trains close together in the afternoon. It is an Up train, but I'm only guessing at the time, so it could easily be 1700 ish, or alternatively, being a Sat & being emcars, maybe the van train took an earlier path? It's definitely an afternoon shot, after leaving the works-I have two or three of the Wizzo & late-lamented 818 Glory around the turntable that come earlier on in the film. We had to travel back to Leighton Buzzard, so we'd have been waiting for an HST to Paddington, which from memory would have been at about 10 past the hour.

Thanks all, these little threads are really satisfying when you can piece a piece of the jigsaw that has been missing for nigh on 35yrs!

cheers N

Evening all.

Can anyone id this class 31 please? Photo taken at Swindon stn on 6th June 1981-the date of Swindon Works Open Day. It would have been late afternoon-about 3-4pm.

https://flic.kr/p/xxjmWJ

cheers N

Sorry, yes, typo on my part, I meant class 85. I was referring to the lower of the two.

I'm pretty sure 85013 was another with dominoes. I doubt any went to sealed beam before 1977-headcodes were taken out of use on 01/01/1976 & supposed to be wound to 0000, TOPS no.s would have been applied in about 1973-4. Either 81003 or 007 was the last survivor with dominoes (discounting 83009/012/015). 

:-)

With regard to post #568-I'm pretty sure that's an 81 not an 86. Look at the shape of the bodyside-it's smooth. Class 85 bodyside were a strong steel trough with a lightweight superstructure carrying the grilles & roof. 

With regard to post #578-orange cantrail stripes came in around 1978, as an additional safety measure-below this line there should be no danger of shock from the OHL or roof mounted equipment.

Thanks Nidge, that site is a little gem. I havn't yet got any info on who the car was first sold through, I just know that YR is a central London reg, & that it was first registered 13/1/1969. There is no sign of any dealer stickers or a dealer plate in the car.

Where is the white plastic dealer sticker located on the car?

Back on topic, so there were car trains from Cowley to London then? Presumably Hymek hauled in 69/70?

cheers N