10000

If you are going to follow the suggestion to test the 21 pin decoder from the non runner in the tender of the runner to determine if its OK. then there is another test you could do while its open.

With no decoder in the running tender fit an 8 pin blank and then plug the running tender into the non runner loco and test with DC. 

Doing that you will at least know if the fault is inside the non runner loco

Sorry - my fault. I should have warned you about pulling to hard on the wires and to stop if the plug was not coming out.

Don't just look for places that repair model locos. You need someone who can repair electrical and electronic items. If they can replace components in a VCR they may be able to repair the board/socket

Edit 

I have to admit I have had the same experience. Not on a model loco but on a CD player.

It was skipping and jumping so needed the transport mechanism cleaning. To get to to it required a circuit board to be removed. Same thing a plug too tight in socket and the socket came off the board.  Once the circuit board was out I was able to remove the wires from the casing and to prove to myself that it was a plug in socket I managed to separate them. What made me sure it was a plug in socket was the fact it was a red plug in a white socket.

OK putting it in the correct way and reset has got back sound but no movement.

The headlight flashing during reset is a common feature with some decoders indicating a reset has occurred (some flash after a short circuit).

A reset should have cleared any function key settings as well.

You say 1 and 5 are open which suggests a wire or motor issue.

Yes you could dive in and test the runner tender on the non runner but there could be differences in the wiring between the two that could be a problem. I have had issues with Hornby where tenders were not swappable because one loco/tender combination was wired wrong.

I would now do some testing on DC.

Remove the 21 pin decoder from the non runner tender and insert an 8 pin blank.

Place tender connected to loco on a DC track. Set to forward does the headlight come on? Set to reverse does the rear light come on? Does it move?

Now assuming the lights work but still no movement connect the non runner tender still with the 8 pin blank in to the running loco using the wiring harness from the runner.

If its lights work and its running then test again but with the wiring harness from the non runner.

Post when you have done this.

Ah the sweet voice of reason,

 

I have now removed the 8-pin blanking plug and replaced the 21-pin decoder,  now there are no lights, no sound, nothing, but there was a slight spark when I connected the tender to the engine drawbar.  It now looks like this, I now have two Y6bs which are totally dead.

 

Img_1401a_r1200.jpg

 

I take the point about eliminating the decoder, but would be happy to try all that AFTER by-passing the 21-pin decoder with the 8 pin plug and achieving at least some life on DC.  Is that effectively what I did? Or am I missing something.

 

I am averse to dismantling another other engines I have with DCC because I am so clumsy,  The models I have which are mostly 'as new' represent a small income in my retirement, and I might have a Bachmann G2a with a 21-pin but not sure, but in reading the issues people have with taking tender bodies off without damage... um, I'm reluctant at best..

 

Thanks again

First, great news about the one that is now working.

Is the one that is still dead the same one in your previous post where you mentioned a slight spark when you connected the drawbar to the tender. 

A spark like that is not good news and could indicate a short circuit. 

Rob,

thanks for the explanation.  That gives us things to think about when suggesting what you try.

Let us know when the meter arrives so that we can start to take you through a process of fault finding.

Do you have a loco cradle? If not is there anyone who could make one for you? I think in your situation you would find one useful.

I'm not familier with JMRI, I use CTI. 

In CTI I can specify the order in which actions happen. 

Does JMRI not have a scripting system which you could use to set the routes and define the order in which they fire and set a delay if needed?

I agree don't put them up for sale yet. Wait for the meter. 

There are people on here who will be willing to take you slowly through a process of testing to try and determine what is wrong.

USB, Firewire, SATA, eSATA, SD cards? All intended to be 'hotpluggable'. Thus your strongly worded statement is factually incorrect. I'll leave it at that.

That is totally uncalled for! So far I haven't seen any constructive contribution in your messages about solving the problem the OP stipulated, or perhaps I've missed it? Would it help re-reading the OP and consequent messages to get a clear idea of the situation?

I think he was referring to IDE and PCI cards that plug into the motherboard not devices designed as external devices.

But having said that all my years in IT working on the innards of a PC including replacing CPU's I never ever wore a grounding lead. The advice I was given by a PC engineer (remember this in the UK so earthed mains leads) was make sure its turned off.

Leave the mains lead plugged in to PC and Power socket. 

Discharge yourself on something grounded before touching anything sensitive.

Also good luck with the repair

I bought a class 31 a few years ago - a new release. Ran fine on DC but on DCC it ran extremely slowly using as many amps as my Powercab could deliver.  It went back to Hornby to be checked. Declared OK they even put in one of their decoders. 

But as soon as it was put back on my layout on DCC it did exactly the same thing. Its been tried with 3 different brands of decoder but doesn't work properly on any of them. 

Eventually I will get around to taking out the circuit board and hard wire a decoder.

Quick and dirty - old fashioned isolation tracks will keep  one stationery while the other moves away. Acceleration CV set to prevent 0-60 instant

Alternative  - decoders with a brake function set to the loco not the consist, again CV set to control acceleration.

But I suspect your best solution will be to use the Add - Delete option for the consist. No need to completely kill the consist.

Edit

Sorry just checked the manual add -delete will not work with the front and rear units 

Edit 

Just occurred to me, could the automatic brake control as used in some Lenz decoders help in this situation to allow hold, start and stop of the units

Before trying to make a suggestion a question

During the split time do they both run simultaneously or will one remain stationery while the other is running?

I believe Peco state on their website not to use Hornby clips on their points. There must be a reason for that apart from competitor product.

As John has said use clear nail polish on the frogs but remember that if you use track rubbers or similar you will need to reapply sooner than just by the wear done by the wheels

Well most of the problems have been covered but this is my experience with it.

First one - small metal shaft fell out of it as I took it out of the box, then I noticed a small crack at one corner of the body shell. That went back and was replaced. It made 9 out of 18 with faults mostly missing buffer.

Second one everything seemed OK so ran it in, then came to fit a decoder. 

After carefully disconnecting the cables I carefully eased up the body at which time one step came off, one of the small orange boxes (no wires) on the end fell off and 2 of the small engine compartment windows fell out. As I picked it up I barely placed any pressure on one of the boxes next to the fuel tank and that came of complete with unbroken fixing pegs.

After fitting the decoder and bits that fell off I decided to give it a run. Normally on my layout I run with 6 coaches sometimes a max of 8 but decided to give it a good try. 

From a standing start with no slipping, 20 coaches no problem. The issue was the coaches pulling themselves off  on the curves.

During this it never exceeded 0.25 amps. 

So after the few issues I'm very pleased with it.

Did you just run the setup program on the CD or did you install the driver from Win 10 Devices liusb update driver - browse for driver.  While mine is the ethernet/usb you cannot just run the setup program from the cd you have do it as an update driver.

The Lenz USB connector uses an industry-standard serial->USB converter and Windows 10 will automatically install the correct driver.  Any driver on the supplied CD is almost certainly going to be at a lower level and you shouldn't need to replace it. After the driver is installed you need to look in control panel -> device driver to find which USB name was used so that you can set up the software. 

If there is one thing that I have learned about Windows in my many years in IT and using Win 10 since I retired is that it doesn't alway work  the way it should.

When I upgraded to Win 10 it killed the operation of my Lenz, I had to install the driver.  Its also done the same after a couple of  the major upgrades. 

The usb cable fits into the usb hub no problem I've installed the programmes of the cd rom that came with it, the usb light does not light and the programme keeps telling me its not connected,the greenlight on the usb quickly flashes once as I remove the cable from the hub, ithink either I,ve bought a faulty device or the cable is at fault, will have to try another cable and hope for the best. thanks for the advise and will let you know how I  get on . CHEERS

Thats possible my first Lenz USB/Ethernet had to go back as it was faulty. If you can try another cable first they are  cheap enough.

As long as the USB cable has the correct connectors and plugs into, without force, the computer and the Lenz then it should work.  Its a standard cable.

Win 10 has a tendency to auto install the driver that it thinks is the correct one but that may not allow correct operation.  When plugged into the Lenz you need to go into Win 10 devices and see if a new USB device is there and then install the driver to overwrite the default one.

Have you installed the driver?

What version of Windows? 10 can be a real pain to get it working.

What software are you using to control locos?

In yesterday to get a D400. 

In again today to return it and get a replacement to find Tim in the shop this morning. He is looking fine so anyone who doesn't know what happened would never realise.

Karen has allowed him in for a couple of hours to chat to customers and take money but nothing else. Nice to see him there.

Karen and Trevor are doing a great job with the shop (and the cuppa service) so no worries there.

Not got that decoder but jerky at slow speed can be dirty track, dirty wheels or dirty pickups. The 40 has few pickups considering the number of wheels its got.

Another cause on Bachmann stock is BEMF. So if its not a dirt problem try turning that off.

As Geoff said it could be a factory fit capacitor. I have several Tsunamis, drop in boards and standard decoders many have a 'cap' dangling on 2 wires..

Have you tried a decoder reset? Put it back to factory defaults before adjusting settings. Also don't assume you need the same settings as a similar tsunami fitted loco. I have 2 Kato AC4400 but settings are different. Also its not just a case of changing the standard motor CV's and speed table, there are many other CV's that impact motor performance which is why I use Decoderpro to tune mine.

Edit:

you may find this useful

http://www.trainweb.org/gnw/BEMF%20Tuning.htm

I think most of the crane tanks were used in steelworks and shipyards for lifting things like castings which were too heavy for the men to lift. The capacity wasn't that great about 5 tons maximum.

 

Anything more than that and they would use a proper crane. Some hand cranes could lift much more than that. That's before you get to the massive steam or diesel power cranes that could lift 100 tons.

 

 

Here's a bit of film of one.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5in-ZUFFiUw

 

 

 

Jason

Nice to see  the Dubs in operation. By the time I started work at Shelton Iron & Steel in 1968 it was out of service.

Just a thinking out loud..... My PowerCab was supplied with a 12 volt DC output power supply. I understand some more recently sold are supplied with 13.5V DC units.  Is this a sufficient voltage for a TTS decoder??  All Hornby DCC control systems  - Select, Elite and eLink are powered at 15volts DC.  Does this make any difference?  I would certainly try to programme it on the Main which should proved full current to the decoder even if at a slightly reduced voltage than Hornby use!

Off  the top of my head you can use up to 15v 3amp power supply. (check the manual).

I use a 15v 2amp

The Powercab puts 0.5v less to the track than the supply rating.

Don't blame the Powercab. I've used it to programme the following sound decoders with no problems in reading CV's

Soundtrax tsunami

QSI

ESU loksound V4

TCS wowsound

Broadway Paragon

This can happen with some decoders just press enter and continue the setting of the loco address. It usually works. If it doesn't then use POM where it does not attempt to read first.