Swissrail

I wonder what will be happening at Interlaken as the dual gauge trains will arrive on the BLS standard gauge but the "Golden Pass" journey includes the Zentralbahn onward to Luzern?

 

I assume it will a train change as now.

 

Keith

I believe there will be a second gauge change back down to 1000mm for the Interlaken - Luzern section.

Line speed, wind speed and number of pantographs aside, design standards have changed. The old swiss kit you talk of would not pass todays design standards neither would 1970s BR era kit - the whole philosophy of structural steel design has changed (now called Eurocodes) in the last few years. This has increased the size structural members. Structural Steel also now has to be CE marked by law.

That explains then why H girder portals these days look like they could support the weight of a ten ton truck whereas those from earlier schemes look quite delicate by comparison . It all adds to modern schemes looking cumbersome and unweildy.

That's a fallacy of "If I don't use it personally then it's not important" and it should be obvious why that argument doesn't hold any water.

Agreed. I don't have children but I'm sure I'd be pilloried from all quarters if I advocated that the primary and secondary schooling systems be shut down on the grounds that they are of no use to me.

Somehow I can't quite see the GWML OHLE ever meriting "national treasure" status. And as for most of the rebuilt bridges, least said the better.

 

I don't know how the consultation process with interested parties was arranged (can't force myself to say "stakeholders"....), but the overall quality of the design work of the visual aspects of this project seems to me (as just an ordinary Joe) to be particularly poor,

 

The WCML 1960s electrification had a modern, clean look to all its infrastructure - OHLE, signalling, bridges and buildings. The was a sense of  "wholeness" and a "unity" to the whole project. Don't get that feel with this scheme.

 

I don't like being so negative, but sometimes I could weep. 

What I don't understand is that the GWML OLE is designed by Furrer & Frey of Switzerland and yet is grotesquely ugly and heavy looking compared to the equivalent installations going up all over that country. Having said that the older equipments in Switzerland that are being replaced are delicate and have a graceful lace-like appearance. Structural strength can't have been an issue though as these are up to sixty or seventy years old.

Reading the above posts it seems that early experience on the Styal loop line lead to lighter weight structures being used on the remaining LMR lines.  I have just been reading a book about the LBSCR suburban electrification and exactly the same thing happened there with the second scheme (I think it was the route to Crystal Palace) using lighter  structures than the initial South London line scheme.   I presume that the engineers who did the Styal loop drew on the experience of the relatively recently completed Woodhead route, albeit that that used much heavier cabling, and also the experimental structures erected at Scale Hall between Lancaster and Morecambe in 1955.  

 

The Weaver Junction/Glasgow scheme of 1974 used lighter weight structures but doesn't seem to have the same fragility as the ECML.  I know that they used the man who had maintained the Lancaster/Morecambe/Heysham overhead to advise on the design of the Weaver Junction/Glasgow structures and their placement.  It looks almost certain that it is the lack of experienced design engineers combined with deep local knowledge that has been one of the main causes of the problems on the GWML.  This shows yet again the folly of short term thinking that leads to a lack of corporate memory

 

Jamie

I'm told the ECML installation is so fragile because of the then Tory government insisting that the scheme be funded solely from BR coffers. The designers had to place the masts further apart than would normally be recommended in order to save money. This resulted in, among other things, the section along the cliffs north of Berwick upon Tweed being prone to dewirements because of wind deflection on unnecessarily long wiring spans. Apparently this problem still persists to the point that one of the TOC's on that line (I think it was Virgin) threatened to use diesel traction throughout because of it. A similar problem occurred on the Weaver Junction - Glasgow section until extra intermediate stabilising masts were installed, in the late seventies I think it was, together with ball-race pulleys on tensioning masts which enabled them to supertension the wiring thus reducing the dewirement and arcing problems they had, particularly on Beattock Bank.

Looks very much like an early predecessor of the Translohr system used in Caen & Nancy in France and Padova & Venice in Italy.

Can I be heretical here and ask if using unmodified P4 wheels would be unacceptable instead of full P87 or running the risk of modifying one to the other and making a hash of it? After all P4 wheels will be a major visual improvement over standard HO or RP25 wheels and with only a minor widening of check and flangeway gaps the running should be as good and possibly better than with proper P87 wheels. I'm going to try it on one of my Swiss electrics as I can't see that the minimally oversized tread and flange are going to make that much of a difference to anyone but a strict fundamentalist.

Hi Tim

That Duchess is stunning. A beautiful job!

Cheers

Alan