tiger

Total wishlisting speculation...but I think the following would both be winners:

Swindon Class 120 across Country DMU

Class 303 “Blue Train” (refurbished or unrefurbished - or both!)
 

Cheers

Tom.

Thanks for the info Bomag. 

Info from another forum confirms that the two "003" coaches were actually ordered first and hence have the separate lot numbers you listed - and they were the two coaches with "M" prefixes. I think I was mistaken to suggest that 11001 and 12001 had been "M" prefixed and I now think Dapol are correct.

It was suggested that 11003/12003 were the first two coaches modified with 3-phase supply and tested with MK1 generator coach ADB975325 - see full reply here - and hence they were kept with the prototype HST and renumbered (to 41002/42002) and two other vehicles selected to become Royals.

Cheers, Tom.

I had a closer look at my Dapol Prototype HST yesterday and noticed that most of the coaches have "E" prefixes to the running numbers, but two have "M".

Specifically:

Saloon pack 1 (2P-007-001) contains FOs E11000, E11001, and TSOs E12000, E12001
Saloon pack 2 (2P-007-002) contains FOs E11002, M11003, and TSOs E12002, M12003
Buffet pack (2P-007-003) contains (T)RSB E10000 and (T)RUK E10100

For some reason I thought I had remembered that it was the two coaches which were later rebuilt to Royal Train saloons (11001 and 12001) which were "M" prefixed at one time. I had a quick flick through a couple of books but was not able to confirm anything to do with regional allocations except that of the 8 open saloons built, only 6 were re-numbered into the 41xxx and 42xxx HST number range when the set was re-classified as a DEMU, 252001 - the two "Royal" coaches were not renumbered. I might have some other books with more detail but they are up in an attic in the UK on the other side of the world from my current location!

Can anyone with access to better information (or better memories) enlighten me as to what the regional prefixes were and whether Dapol are correct or have used "artistic licence"? Even better, are there any actual recorded set formations? I'm especially interested in the period when the set was tested on the ECML with 41xxx power cars and 11xxx/12xxx/10xxx numbering of the coaches, rather than the WR 252001 era.

I know set formations varied but wondered whether the "M" prefixed coaches were ever actually included in the Prototype HST formation or if they were always separately tested in loco hauled rakes? (I have no photographic or other evidence to back this theory up!)

For what it's worth, the renumbering was as follows:

11000 -> 41000 -> ADB975814 Test Car 10, now in New Measurement Train
11001 -> Royal train 2903
11002 -> 41001 -> rebuilt as production TF 41170
11003 -> 41002 -> rebuilt as production TF 41174 later converted to TS 43257
12000 -> 42000 -> rebuilt as production TF 41172, later converted to TS 42355
12001 -> Royal train 2904
12002 -> 42001 -> rebuilt as production TF 41171, later converted to TS 42353
12003 -> 42002 -> rebuilt as production TF 41173, later converted to TS 42356
10000 -> 40000 -> departmental 975984 now in New Measurement Train
10100 -> 40500 -> departmental 977089, scrapped in early 1990s

Thanks in advance if anyone is able to help!

Cheers, 

Tom.

(also cross-posted to N Gauge Forum)

C19838 shows “Blue Peter” at the head of the charter involved in the infamous and catastrophic Durham wheel slip incident which caused extensive damage to the locomotive’s motion, cylinders and driving wheels. The driver was also injured. Repairs took at least 18 months to complete.

Order placed. Great to see another run, as these have been going for silly ££££ on eBay.

I wonder IF (big if) you could arrange for Dapol to use the newly tooled correct Mk3a roof (Tooled for the prototype HST) for this release? I appreciate this would be a deviation from the previous specification, but a change for the better if possible?

cheers

Tom

On 29/09/2020 at 02:42, LNERJP said:

From my research and interest Tom corridor stock was used on the West Highland line alongside open stock right up until sprinterisation. Although as you rightly state open stock was becoming a lot more common than corridor. 

 

There are some formations here https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=465 and one of them is from the West Highland in June 1988, which is my chosen period, the next thing I need to research is bogies as I would have thought by that time nearly all MK1's would have had Commonwealth or B4 bogies.

 

Then I start to think about the fact that Farish don't do any MK1's with the raised window frame, or maybe I just need to realise life's to short.

 

Cheers

 

Thanks JP, good to know ScotRail corridor stock was still around in the late 80s.

Don’t worry - I have all sorts of unrealistic plans in my head to modify various RTR items (changes which nobody else would notice) eg Dapol HST catering vehicles with the correct window layouts, a Farish Mk1 RBR. Maybe I also need to learn that life’s too short...

My initial reaction to seeing these items was that Bachmann/Farish had made a mistake in releasing ScotRail branded Mk1 corridor stock (SK/BSK), as my memory of loco-hauled ScotRail services in the mid-late 1980s was that most had been upgraded to at least vacuum braked Mk2 stock (2z if you like - e.g. Edinburgh-Dundee) or air braked Mk 2a/2c (e.g. Edinburgh/Glasgow-Inverness). I thought that the remaining Mk1 stock was mainly open (TSO, BSO etc) on the likes of the West Highland Line.

However I probably have a lowland/Edinburgh memory bias as that’s where I lived. A look through a 1986 combined volume shows several SK allocated to both Inverness and Polmadie. Can someone more knowledgeable tell me if, where and for how long side corridor Mk1 stock remained in use in Scotland that might have had been branded “ScotRail”? I guess the GSW line from Glasgow-Dumfries and Carlisle, Aberdeen-Inverness and the Far North/Kyle lines are all possibilities. Were any of these routes dedicated side corridor stock or were the remaining SK run in mixed rakes with open stock.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Tom.

7 hours ago, bingley hall said:

 

I partly answered this on the previous page

 

To expand.....I believe that over time most of the red diamond locos were converted to blue star, especially those that were repainted blue.

A quick search on Flickr brings up D8507 at Millerhill during July 70 in blue livery with blue stars.
However at least one of the Beyer Peacock built examples D8600 green SYP - one of the EFE weathered ones - carried the red diamonds and is correctly modelled so, 

There is also a pic on Flickr of 8599 at Tyne Yard in July 1969 with no mu working symbols at all. 

 

Thanks for that explanation, makes sense now. I should have flicked back a page!

These look good to me (I’m definitely not an expert!) so I’ve ordered two BR blue, weathered examples.

...which leads me to a question. Can anybody with better knowledge explain the multiple working variations within the class? According to the Wikipedia entry the class was equipped as follows:

D8500–D8587 ◆Red Diamond
D8588–D8616 ★Blue Star

The EFE models all either have blue star markings or are not marked at all, with the exception of E84509 WSL EFE Rail Class 17 Diesel Locomotive D8600 BR Green which has red diamonds. According to Wikipedia this is one of the blue star series!

Can anybody more knowledgeable explain what is going on? Have EFE got the wrong running numbers for red diamond vs blue square locos? Is the Wikipedia entry wrong? Or is Wikipedia correct for Multiple Working “as built”, but some locos were changed from one multiple working system to another during their working lives?

For what its worth the two models I’ve ordered both have blue star markings and I’d like to be able to run them as a double header, but one of them is D8606 (blue star number series according to Wikipedia) and the other is D8507 (red diamond series).

In preservation the real D8568 (red circle series as per Wikipedia) has blue star markings.

Yours confused,

Tom.

4 hours ago, philiprporter said:

Hi Jeremy hope you are well? I can see the total amount in my account on the Dapol website but can't see any means of actually paying it? Am I being dim?!!

I received an email from Dapol with a link to payment and was able to pay after clicking the link.

Can anybody remember whether the Intercity Charter (white roof) Mk1BCK was previously announced, or whether it is a surprise new release?

374-088 N BR Mk1 BCK Brake Composite Corridor BR InterCity Charter (Executive) 44.95

Would love to be able to purchase some matching Mk1 31xx series FO (and ideally - Wishlist mode on - an RBR) to go with this.

edit: like this (Flickr “public” link...not my original photo) 

Cheers, Tom.

BR lines has a modern class 37 body shell for sale as a spare part: (no connection other than being a past customer)

https://www.farishnspares.co.uk/graham-farish-by-Bachmann/371-471-class-37-in-drs-blue-running-no-37261.html

If you are happy with the existing chassis, this could be a way of upgrading to a more modern model? I do acknowledge that DRS livery might not have been what you had in mind though!

Cheers

Tom.

Five more Class 47's today starting off with some 47/7's.

47707 "Holyrood" waits time at Glasgow Queen Street with a Sunday afternoon push/pull to Edinburgh on 8 March, 1987. I had travelled Glasgow with my Dad for the Model Rail Scotland exhibition which was held at the SECC for the first time that year. The coaching stock was one of the Aberdeen Mk 2d sets instead of the usual Mk 3a's. This shot was taken on a 110 format instamatic camera - hence the grainy, lousy image quality!   

I've posted this image before back in 2013 in the Scottish Region Photos 1980s thread - so I hope nobody minds a re-post! In that thread, "Flood" identified this 47/7 as 47703 "St Mungo", show here on 21 August 1989 in Princes St Gardens, moments from arriving into Edinburgh Waverley. The rusty tracks on the left are leading to Haymarket South Tunnel which was closed for works associated with the Edinburgh-Carstairs 25 kV electrification. I previously guessed that the train is an Aberdeen-Edinburgh working, as the formation is a Mk 2 push-pull set (47/7, Mk 2d TSO, 2z TSO, 2d TSO(T), 2e FO, 2f DBSO)  - however as evidenced by the picture of 47707 above, these sets sometimes found their way onto Edinburgh-Glasgow workings too.

The next two images are back to the dodgy 110 format instamatic camera. One time celebrity Class 47/4 Generator 47406, formerly named "Rail Riders", stands at Leeds City in July 1988. I think the attached blue/grey Mk 1 is actually one of the NNX/NNV Courier Vans converted from a Mk 1 BSK. 

Fast forward 18 months to 17 February, 1990, and I have caught up with 47406 again, this time at Sheffield Midland. The weather looked bleak, and so was the future for 47406. Time was running out for this 1980s trainspotter favourite and former East Coast stalwart, which was withdrawn in August 1990 and cut up by MRJ Phillips at Frodingham MPD, in December 1995. Info from www.class47.co.uk.

Independence Day, 1991. 4 July sees Tinsley's Class 47/4 no. 47423 unofficially named "Sceptre" running light through Doncaster's platform 4. www.class47.co.uk shows 47423 as being reallocated to Old Oak Common the same month, July 1991, to the NWRA Network SouthEast pool. It remained in standard BR blue livery until withdrawal in May the following year. Following withdrawal 47423 remained at Old Oak Common where it was eventually cut up by MRJ Phillips in April, 1997.

Once again I hope these are of interest.

Tom.

Here's a few of mine from the late 80's and early 90's. Please forgive the sometimes lousy composition (into the sun, shutter pressed too late, dodgy focus etc) as I was only a teenager with my first SLR manual focus, manual wind-on camera. A few of these images have appeared in other threads previously.

To start things off, here are some Class 47s in my then home city of Edinburgh:

On the afternoon of 28 January, 1989 Inverness-allocated Class 47/4 47644 "The Permanent Way Institution" has just arrived on Platform 10 with a working from Carstairs and the WCML. To the left of 47, the track is fenced off and lifted, for relaying and rationalisation associated with the ECML electrification. 

A few minutes later 47644 runs around the stock the long way round, via platforms 1 and 19 and I have a half decent photo with the low winter sun in the right direction. 

The next photo has definitely appeared before on the Scottish Region 1980s thread back in 2013. 

Class 47/4 no. 47466 is pictured stabled in the former platform 5 at the East end of Waverley Station, Edinburgh, some time in 1991, during the twilight of its career. The locomotive was pretty run down, with peeling paintwork and accident damage above the buffer beam, and was restricted to 40 mph for empty coaching stock moves between Edinburgh Waverley and Craigentinny depot. 

New in May 1964 as D1590, 47466 was officially withdrawn in December 1991. After periods of storage at Holbeck, Leeds, and Crewe works, the locomotive was cut up at Crewe in March 1997, by MRJ Phillips.

Eastfield based, snowplough-fitted Class 47/4 47641 “Fife Region” waits on platform 20 at Waverley with the Northbound “Clansman” in May 1991, having taken over from an AC electric locomotive during the early days of electric working of WCML trains via Carstairs to Edinburgh. Unusually for 1991, it still has a pantograph-style windscreen wiper on the second man's side (as built).

Also during 1991, Eastfield-based, Millerhill outbased Class 26 and 47 locomotives were used for the early evening 17.03 Edinburgh-Edinburgh via Dunfermline, Cardenden and Kirkcaldy Fife Circle commuter train with cascaded ex-NSE Mk2a stock. Here is Class 47/3 no. 47328 from the FAME trainload construction pool departing from platform 19 in May or June, 1991. The Mk2a BFK begins the loco was 17089, still in full NSE livery with early light blue and red stripe.
 

Hope these are of interest.

Tom.

I could never work out why 43152 (photo J9360.jpg) was allocated to the ECML. It was the last of the batch of power cars with the more problematic GEC traction motors (43124-43152). The remainder, and majority of the fleet, had Brush motors.

As I understand it, entry to service for this fleet (which were ordered for West of England route services from London-Exeter, Plymouth and Penzance) was delayed while technical issues with the traction motors were overcome, and they were always more problematic in service. So it always seemed odd to me that 43152 was allocated away from the Western Region, which presumably had more engineering expertise with the type.

Cheers, Tom.

I think the model of 26024 in blue is accurate for around 1991, apart from the orange cantrail stripe. This picture here shows 26024 arriving into Waverley with NSE coaching stock next to a Class 311 EMU. How about prototype for anything? But more to the point, it has radio roof pods and a large Scottie dog (although I'm often told it's actually a Westie i.e. West Highland Terrier). There are also DMEE chevrons under the secondman's window which also appear to be depicted on the model.

Cheers,

Tom. 

21 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

As @Steadfast says, the corridor connections are removable. @Robert Shrives has been in touch with me and if all goes well We'll be able to get some 3D printed replacement ends for you'll.

Cheers!

That's quite an offer - thanks @MGR Hooper!, @Steadfast and @Robert Shrives. I'll have to take another look at my Dapol Mk3's to work out how to remove the corridor connections.

Cheers

Tom.

On 01/02/2020 at 14:18, MGR Hooper! said:

Dapol Digest and Facebook are the fastest means to contact them. However if you aren't a member of the Dapol Digest yet, approval may take a while. Facebook is your next best bet.

I've sent  PM to Dapol on the Dapol Digest. 

I don't think the gangway is a separate plug in moulding on the Dapol Mk3 - pretty sure the gangways and other end details are moulded as part of a single piece body shell. 

Cheers

Tom.

16 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Please do pass on your findings to Dapol, they don't publicly post here. If you have constructive feedback, pass it on to them so that everyone can have a better model.

Hi MGR

What is the best way to give this feedback? Email, Dapol Digest, Facebook or some other way?

Cheers, 

Tom.

Looks good so far.

But....

The saloon vehicles seem to be lacking some end detail - RCH jumper leads etc - they look like production HST Trailer vehicle ends not prototype Mark 3s.  I suspect Dapol have scanned or looked at one of the remaining prototype trailers which were rebuilt to run in the production HSTs, but haven’t backdated the details to mid 70’s condition. This photo on Traintesting show the end details I’m talking about:

http://www.traintesting.com/images/E12000 coach.jpg

Also the gangway bellows look decidedly “production HST” rather than the saggy grey foam of the prototype HST (Jouef got this right in their OO Mk3a model all those years ago):

http://www.traintesting.com/images/Mk3 coach RTC 1972.jpg
 

The catering vehicles should have silver window surrounds - they were the only Prototype HST trailers with this feature, the saloons having the distinctive unique frameless appearance:

https://flic.kr/p/DDk2zW
 

And finally the coaches should be lettered “InterCity” on the saloons, “Buffet” on E10000 and “Restaurant” on E10100. Perhaps this hasn’t been added as they are only 1st livery samples.

I really like the power car and saloon mouldings - and the roof with the 3 roe vac ventilators each end. I hope this roof is available as a spare part so we can add them to our loco hauled Mk 3a coaches.

Cheers

Tom.

Thanks acg5324 and Ben A for both of those useful and prompt replies! I’ll let you know how I get on.

Tom.

I’m a bit late to the party with these car flats. The Motorail branded ones are sold out (both varieties - BR1 and B4 bogies) but I have been able to order the blue unbranded version.

Are there any suppliers of either the Motorail sign or suitable transfers which could be used to add the branding to the unbranded wagons? Sankey Scenics seem to do them in OO/4mm https://www.sankeyscenics.co.uk/4mm-coach-dest-motorail/4593866145 . And there are Motorail transfer packs from Fox and Railtec, but these seem to be white lettering for application to blue GUV vans, or Black Motorail lettering for Executive livery coaches and GUVs, not the larger size with the red double arrow logo for the carflats.

With some lateral thinking are any of the 4mm coach transfers the correct size for the car flat sign? And what about the red BR logo?

Thanks in advance for any ideas!

Tom.

16 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

Darlington Bank Top c.1971/72, photo by Malcolm Hilton...

 

In the pic at Darlington 5320 has oval buffers. It was the first class 26/1 and became 26028 under TOPS. I always thought that only Class 26/0 were built with oval buffers and Class 26/1 had round. Later most (all?) 26/0 changed to round buffers (was this during refurbishment during the 1980s?)

Was 5320 built like this with oval buffers, or had they been changed to oval for some reason?

Cheers, Tom.

Hi again everyone.

Thanks for the positive comments about my previous post with pics from 1989.

One year later, on a wet 4 July 1990, I had my first ride: from Doncaster to Leeds, behind "series two" locomotive 91012, with brand new Mk IV coaching stock. I never did get to experience the power and acceleration of a 91+43 combo!

Seminar on arrival in Leeds. I'm the lanky guy nearest to 91012 in the blue anorak (complete with binoculars...I can't possibly think why trainspotters get a bad image). My wife and kids find photos of me like this extremely funny. I'm not in touch with anybody else in the picture - we were all Scottish based kids on a summer holiday camp. If you happen to recognise yourself please get in touch.

In early 1991, 91019 was used in Scotland for crew training prior to introduction of the fleet on ECML services from London to Newcastle, Edinburgh and Glasgow Central. She is seen here on Platform 21 at Waverley. I was experimenting, doing my own developing and printing with black and white film (Ilford FP4?) in a school photography club darkroom, hence the black and white print.

A few weeks later 91019 has been cleaned and polished (but only above the solebar) and named "Scottish Enterprise" for the launch of electric train services between Glasgow (Central) and Edinburgh, via Carstairs. The service was officially launched with a special train on 30 May 1991, which ran between Glasgow and Edinburgh and is seen here arriving at Waverley. Members of the press were conveyed, along with the then Secretary of State for Transport, Malcolm Rifkind MP. From memory, the full ECML electric timetable was supposed to start from the beginning of the summer 1991 timetable in May, but this was delayed until July 1991 due to late deliveries of Mk IV coaching stock - in the meantime there was a gradual introduction of Class 91/Mk IV sets replacing HST diagrams from May or June that year. I can't remember whether this press special marked the actual launch date of London Kings Cross-Glasgow Central, via Edinburgh services, or whether they followed a few weeks later.

My final class 91 shot from the archives shows 91028 resting on platform 19 at Waverley in the shadow of the North British Hotel, on Sunday 16 February, 1992, having arrived with a train from London Kings Cross. This was my final class 91 "for sight", which also happened to mark the end of my career as a notebook carrying trainspotter!

I hope everybody has enjoyed these photos of class 91s in their early years. They seemed so powerful, futuristic and modern at the time; it is hard to believe that 30 years has passed since their introduction and that they are now starting to be withdrawn. I guess every generation of enthusiasts has this experience of seeing traction come and go, whether it be Gresley's A4s, Deltics, or HSTs, to use some ECML examples.

Cheers

Tom.

14 year old me was just so excited to see my first class 91s at Doncaster in 1989. My Dad and I had glimpsed two from a passing train in April that year, but it wasn't until 13 July that I was able to make a day trip to Donny to see them close up. So here is my first class 91: a broadside view of 91009 in the sidings next to Doncaster Works.

91009, front three quarter view:

91005, with Mk 3 HST coaching stock and class 43 DVT, waits to depart platform 4 for Leeds the same day.

Rear three quarters view of 91007 attached to a driver training train made up of blue/grey Mk 3 Sleepers and an HST DVT in the Down sidings at Doncaster, also on 13 July 1989.

And finally that day we saw 91003 in another Mk 3 HST DVT combination, this time on platform 8 waiting to depart for Leeds.