bertiedog

It's really your chose on a lathe, the more expensive ones are better made and finished, and I should make it clear I have 5 lathes of different sizes, including a tool room small Lorch, but it has given me the experience to see issues with all the lathes. The Emco series are all accurate and well made, as are Proxxon etc., but if starting from scratch these days my first choice would be a Myford, but this is because of an interest in 5 inch gauge locos. It simply does not need a lathe that size for model railways, and smaller types like the C3 are handy size, they can be moved and operate without bolt down if needed. The rivals to the C3 7x10 often use Sieg made chassis blocks any way, they supply Taiwan and Japanese run Korean lathe producers......and some so called European made lathes have Sieg castings in them, even in the UK. With other makes in the main price range of smaller makes service and spares may be the biggest issue, and you should look into how unique the design is and how serviceable without an importer( they do go out of business). The advantage any Sieg has is spares from all "makers" fit all, and nothing is non standard, for instance the makers main bearings are industry standard, and can be replaced in a couple of hours. It is a mechanics lathe, one to do work on, and maintain, fit with extras and generally bring up to standard, but then what standard? It can rival any lathe with attention to details, converted to collets it would rival the Cowells, and the bed and accuracy is the same, but Cowells offer far more in specialist equipment for very precision work, and it has to be said, at a higher price. As you move up from the basic C3 each supplier offers other Sieg models, or their own design, and first look through the range from the supplier, like Warco or Chester, determine what the largest work you expect to do, and decide on a matching machine. I would advise buying from established importers like Chester etc, they have back up and experience. At the other extreme is Myford, very expensive, huge range of accessories and reliable, Cowells are similar, but specialise in clock and watchmakers machines. The other main suppliers in the mid range are the German makes, and these are these days a "combination product", using Chinese made castings , and basic machining and supplying and assembling them in Europe. So it boils down to what you can afford, and the 7x10 variants offer the best value, and being so established now , look like being there for the foreseable future

Also spares examples , including brass Gib strips, well worth while getting as set or making them. ...it results in smoother movements of the slides.http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/C3-Mini-Lathe-Spares

Bearing change for the C3( should you wish)http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/C3_BC/pages/index.html They offer these as a special from new as well.

Check out Chronos for selection of additions done inc., the four way tool post. http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Accessories_for_Variable_Speed_Mini_Lathes.html

Now, first, I do not own a C3, but I have set up several for friends etc., and for the size and price it is un-beatable. It is sold under lots of names, Sieg are the Shanghai engineering group who make them in China. The plus points out way any shortcomings, like needing a bit of adjustment and checking over before use, and being a bit basic and old fashioned in some aspects. It is strong, cast iron, and accurate, and comes with good accessories that work across the range of makes. The motor is DC and stepless controllable, a very nice feature.(full reverse). The fittings are absolutely standard in every positive way, nothing unusual, or odd ball. It is all serviceable with the lathe able to make it's own spares etc., and specialist suppliers Euro Arc do more sophisticated bearings and gears should you want to fit them later on. The down side is no proper main saddle lock, no proper lever tailstock lock, and some suppliers have inferior handles. These points can be addressed easily, a home made lock can be made in an afternoon, there are articles on the net on how to do it, any home mechanic can do this job. The Tailstock lock is a simple nut, it can be fitted with a simple ring spanner, or Arc Euro and others do cam lock conversions, or you can make your own from the net. The handles vary some are plastic, some chrome metal, all can be changed later one should you find them awkward. The hole where the lead screw enters the head stock needs a felt/cloth washer fitted, a matter of moments to fit, to prevent swarf and oil getting at the electronics . The Chinese are improving all the time, ensure it is a current supplied one with the best electronics, there were early ones that gave troubles, but all current ones are O.K. and at worse it is replaceable. Chesters version had a US made board which is better, but the standard type is now fully approved and the bugs gone as far as I know. Don't forget that you can have metric or imperial screws as a choice, and you can later add a kit to convert it in minutes from one to the other. The dials are basically metric and do not change, some models have dual, ( but then you should not be using dials to set anything!!). There is a vertical slide as extra for milling, but the machine has the basics with it, and the tapers fitted means anything will fit. Set aside about a day to clean, adjust gib strips, and generally test out the machine and run in the bearings, check over the bed and slide bars for any burrs etc and file these away. Lubricate with car oil, cheap and available!, wipe clean with paraffin and oil mix. If you are a newcomer, do not worry about cooling, the fine cuts you will be making will not overheat, and brass etc needs no lubricant. The picture you see of masses of coolant being used is for production speeds far higher than home use. Also do no worry about the right speed for the material, take it slow and you will not go far wrong, just keep speeds low for steel, and higher for brass. If you do a lot of steel a squeezy bottle of cutting fluid can work wonders for the finish.( or a spot of lard.......) You can buy the interchangeable tool holders, several makes, but do not forget there are plans available free on the net for making your own. There are several specialist enthusiast sites on the 7x10/12 C3 on the net, it is extremely popular in the States, and there are sites for all the areas the lathe can handle.

The picture shows how to grip hex or any even number sided object in a four jaw, but this is difficult to set up accurately, requiring test cuts after setting, and a three jaw in any decent condition will hold it just as well, with near automatic concentricity. For production a round collect would be used with an internal stop on one face if location is required, or a hex form collet would be used in a CNC centre. To machine a true hex concentric with the core or centre the faces would be machined on after the round section is machined, not gripped by the hex shape. Watchmakers grip hex in a two jaw chuck, with V jaws, it runs true as long as the stock material is accurate.

I can only say what I have seen in the past, Chester tools, Sidcup lathes & tools, and lots of s/hand stands. I have bought individual Pultra, Shaublin, Boley and Lorch. As long as the buttress thread matches, most are interchangeable, and range from 6mm, 8mm, 10mm, 12mm drawbar fit. The size range is about 1/2thou to 8 mm. Occasionally turn up on Ebay as well....eg....http://cgi.ebay.co.u...0#ht_1605wt_930 http://cgi.ebay.co.u...cessories_ET&ha http://cgi.ebay.co.u...9#ht_1295wt_930 Stephen.

3 Jaw Chucks are for round work, 4 jaw for square work, and faceplates for awkward odd shape turning or boring holes, and castings, or turning between centres, which methods are all explained more fully on the web or in books. The vital one is the three jaw chuck for day to day use, but you have the luxury of the collets for fine work as well. You could turn out complete wheels sets on the lathe or turn domes etc., all made in the 3 jaw and in brass and steel. Stephen Example of faceplate with body of a chuck being machined on it.

The picture shows the items I queried, plus the fact that the owner has cheekily used the motor spindle as a grindstone/polishing drive. The clamp is for a V block, nothing to do with the lathe as such. The collet set is almost certain to be a Pultra fit type, in 8mm or 10 mm buttress thread, 8mm are more common, and can be bought at model engineering shows. The collet nose looks like the Pultra fit and may be made by them. Lorch collets also fit into Pultra collet chucks.. Stephen

I think I can see a slotted face plate lying in one of the shots on the left, this is a vital item. It is used for odd shape items where a chuck gets in the way, but more to the point it helps identify the thread used for the chucks. As far as I can see the lathe is not a thread cutting version as the main screw is not continued to a position where change gears could be fitted, but again no worry, most threading is done with taps and dies, and you could use this type as a thread chasing lathe like clockmakers and scientific instrument makers do. Stephen.

It is set up as a collet lathe at the moment and was used to make the steel pins in the tray, probably. Each Collet suits a particular round size, and you have a part set, no worry, they are usually standard types and obtainable or you can make them in the lathe itself. Collet holding is the best possible standard of holding small diameter work accurately without damage to the work, and is used by watchmakers and clockmakers a lot. Mild corrosion or rust on them is nothing to worry about, de- rust and oil them. The nose of the Lathe when the collet is removed is threaded to take a back plate and a modern chuck could be fitted if there is not one with the lathe. The first job is to determine the headstock nose thread, usually 8 TPI and find it's diameter, and find a supplier of a back plate or get one made. It may be it matches Myford etc, and life is then easier. The plate is machined on the lathe to take the new chuck, or a S/hand one. Is there a three, (or four), jaw chuck in the boxes? The pointed object is the tailstock centre, fitted to the tailstock end when the chuck is out, and used for " between centre" turning of bars etc. Should all clean up fine, new paint and you have a sound small bench lathe with collets, very useful indeed. Stephen.

The Grindturn is a flat top lathe bed, with V under edges, the Gib strips are at the back, with two bolts bearing on them, and should be removed , de-burred, polished and checked to be straight, and replaced, adjusting the bolts till they lock and then back off. A small project would be to replace the steel gib strips with phosphor bronze strip duplicates, easily made from the original dimensions. It makes the movement very, very, smooth. After adjusting, the whole main slide should be free to move at the chuck end, but may be stiff at the other less used end, it is best to set it for the usual area of operation, near the chuck. As long as the back lash in the leadscrew is not wildly loose, forget it, and work against the play! It is never good practice to rely on the screw for measurement and estimated movement anyway, measure it if vital. Later on a new split nut can be machined up in the lathe as a project. An actual worn lead screw might make precision screw making difficult, but not for average users! As it is a flat top lathe bed check no deep marks etc are showing anywhere, and if there are and they have burred edges simply file away with a fine file the depression in the mark matters not a jot, but raised burrs cause jams and tightness. No amount of gentle fine filing and scraping would ruin the lathe bed!! The other thing to check is the main bearing, probably bronze with a hardened shaft, simply back off the adjusting nuts, remove the main shaft, clean everything , lube, and re-assemble, and adjust to get the tightest fit where it will still turn. If the bronze is scored badly, (the lathe may have been near grinding dust etc, ), then a replacement must be made, but you may be able to do it on the adjusted lathe, or get another owner to make it in glacial cast bronze or Colphos. It is unusual for the centre mandrill to score or bend, and most remain usable. Once cleaned and adjusted, check for accuracy, 1/2inch ground steel rod in the chuck, basic checks for straightness, etc, and you will have an accurate lathe. Chucks are totally replaceable, but older ones remain surprisingly accurate, and can have the jaws ground in situ to bring back accuracy, a Dremel motor tool can make a toolpost grinder for such work, with cheap diamond burrs to do the re-grinding. The whole lathe should be the equal or exceed the Sieg Mini Lathe in accuracy, it is not the lathe itself, but the way the older lathes are used that makes them accurate... you have a nice basis for the whole home workshop in this lathe.

Full details on the Grindturn,(later by Haighton), of Shrewsbury on Lathes (UK) site http://www.lathes.co...hton/index.html Nice small lathes and totally usable these days, it can be serviced and should be accurate. The www.Lathes.co.uk site is the best reference on the net about lathes and milling machines. Stephen

Once you have got the lathe you will find uses for it!!!! buffers, buffer shanks, funnels, domes, handrail knobs, wheels, whistles, smokebox doors, fittings, milling chassis from solid, frame spacers, making nuts and bolts, washers, and rivets...the list is endless, and mainly from scrap materials if you try hard to find and save them. There are lots of websites for steam engine models, and related projects, and lathe projects in general. All the milling and drilling on this brass bogie for a GWR railcar is done on my MD65 milling machine. I do use a bigger lathe, it is a Warco 1324, but all lathe work on this could be done on a Sieg or equivalent lathe like a Taig, Toyo, Hobbymat or Unimat. The mills used are solid carbide burr sided mills 3mm diameter, very wear proof!!.. they fit in the collet chuck. Stephen.

With reference to the Sieg mini lathe............ Arc Euro also offer the tailstock lock modification, new steel gears if needed, and roller bearings as an option for the headstock. All are nice, but not absolutely required to get things running and could be retro changed later on. ................................................................................................................... With reference to the MD65 it does in fact take all chucks easily, there is a drawbar to fit the back of the morse tapers to lock safely, the only issue is some no 1 morse tapers are hard to drill and tap, and need heating red hot to soften first. This converts it properly to a vertical light mill and drill machine. For proper holding of mills the nose takes adaptors for standard small end mill holders, easily modified in the lathe. The three set screws lock it in place on the register, no problems in mounting at all. The collet chuck is a standard type and very expensive, and still made. It fits via an adaptor plate, easily made if you want on the lathe. I bought one whilst the East Germans were still importing them. Also made are FE made direct morse fitting pull collets in metric sizes, and these take drills or light mills and burrs. The only restriction Prazi placed on the mill is fly cutting, they do no recommend it, due to out of balance and vibration with the geared head version. It will work with fly cutters for gears as long as the work is brass, and the cuts light. Stephen.

Try http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1439064267545192193# To see a CNC Bridgeport miller in action machining as a CNC Lathe !!! Stephen.

I would agree about a lathe being more useful, but any decent vertical miller with a horizontal option makes a perfectly capable lathe for larger items, the faceplate fits the shaft, and the tooling fits on to the table, with power feeds etc available. A Cincinnati 10 inch mill will tackle lathe work happily, allowing two foot diameter turning, and of course can go smaller. Even a Bridgeport vertical can handle work held on the spindle, with the tool on the machine table, very flexible in what they will do. Mentioning this works does not mean I recommend it, it is just worth knowing it can be done, the MD 65 vertical mill can do 12 inch diameter wheels for instance, but needs a special speed reduction system added. Also the flanged wheel on a miller would be easy, just put the blank on a rotary table........it allows any round shape to be milled out, this is the way CNC is often used to form rounds. Stephen.

If starting from scratch now, then the Sieg 7x10 miniature Chinese made lathe is good value. It has been around a fair time, in a thousand assorted retail names, as well as Sieg, and comes in a 7x12 variation as well. A new 7x16 also exists on the US market and should be here soon. The very latest versions come with brushless motors as well. Plenty appear on Ebay in the US, not so much over here. There are clubs, blogs, and whole websites devoted to this small Mini Lathe, fitting it out, using it to max capacity, and beyond, and curing some minor niggles with the design, like the tailstock locking clamp, there is none, only a locking nut. In the UK, Warco, Axminster and Chester do them, also Clarkes list them, there may be other suppliers. They come with lots of accessories and can take lots more, either bought in, or made on the lathe itself. It can do milling as well, (horizontal), and has stepless electronic speed control of a DC motor. Full metric or imperial screwcutting as you can change the whole leadscrew in moments to give accurate cutting. The spare one costs extra, but under £30 from most suppliers. Again do not expect to screw cut BA threads they are oddball T.P.I. despite being based on metric dimensions, use taps and dies. It comes with a full changewheel set. Regrettably there is no European or UK equivalent, except Myford, and the cost is very much higher, although a S/hand Myford would give good value. The current Unimats for instance are Sieg made anyway, as are the new Hobbymat. Some copies of the Seig are made in Taiwan, it seems from mainland Shanghai produced parts.

Worth it for the BFE milling attachment.......with free lathe! Reserve not met, so presume a responsible price.........

Tracy Tools, on the net, I have dealt with them for 30 years, good prices and service, and they know what they are selling. There are also Chronos and Maidstone model engineering and Reeves and many other suppliers. The MD65 takes standard small lathe tools and can easily be modified to take better tool posts and interchangeable types. At first you may want to use modern carbide insert types to save tool grinding, but get a simple grinder and you can make HSS tools in the workshop. Make sure the jib strips and adjustments are 100%, no slack, and the accuracy of the lathe is very good indeed. Spares are available, although I believe the German production stopped several years ago. They are basically a metric lathe, and cannot cut a wide range of imperial sizes for threads, but most would be done with taps and dies anyway, especially for BA threads, where all lathes have difficulty matching the odd turns per inch. They have fine surface cutting feeds and all common metric threads available in the gear set. A slow speed extra belt drive was once made by the then English importer, Essar, but the components can be easily made on the machine if you want extra low speeds for cast iron turning. The extra belt turns a layshaft at the back with an extra large pulley, and then a new belt back to the lathe. The rest of the lathe is standard tapers and fittings, and there is a collet chuck made, expensive but very accurate indeed. All standard chucks fit or can be adapted to fit the back plates. The tailstock is standard morse taper, and takes all normal small chucks and tailstock tools. Like all these smaller single phase lathes it cannot take a speed controller to slow the motor, wrong type of AC motor, do not try them, the motor will not start!! Early MD65 have s switched start with a gyro start, or later versions have a capacitor start. If it is an early model, a modern capacitor can be added to give a smoother and quieter start. One word of warning on all MD65 lathes is not to overdo tightening the tool post the bolts that retain the tools in place, the whole top slide is somewhat thin to get clearance under the lathes centreline and in consequence is weak, and if the bolts retaining the tools are over tight, it warps the top slide. The effect is not permanent, does no damage, but throws out the jib strip adjustment, appearing to jam things when the tool retaining bolts are very tight. Just be careful, make sure the retaining bolts are tight enough for safety, but then adjust the cross slide jib strips at that point to ease things, a balance point will be found, and as long as big spanners are not used!...things should remain in adjustment. I still have one of these lathes in daily use, and they are very accurate and pleasant to use, it's only limit is size, and even large 5inch gauge live steam engines could easily be built on them, bar perhaps the large size wheels, without adding the slow speed devices to get them to run at 60 RPM or less. For model railway use it can do all the work, including milling, and there is a vertical milling attachment once made for these that turn up S/hand. The attachment could also be converted to a full milling machine with the addition on a milling table. These are still made in Germany, but are now extremely expensive. The whole machine was designed to be used in East German schools and colleges, heavily subsidised by the State, which expected a good standard machine which could be exported as well. The makers were independent, even under the East German systems, and continued after unification, but costs have driven them to cut the design back or use FE production now. Stephen.

The zinc chromate primers are really designed for treatment of Aluminium, before anodisation became more common to stop corrosion of aluminium parts in aircraft. It also inhibits steel and works to an extent on brass. Acid etch primers are different, they attack the surface deliberately and neutralise as they dry, leaving a passivated surface that stops rust, and again will work with brass. Copper, the main component of brass is naturally corrosion resistant, developing the green copper oxide which stabilises the surface. But Brass has zinc added and that reduces the oxide but makes the surface resistant to paint etc. Tin and other metal are added as well, including lead, which make brass too "slippery" to class as easy to paint. It makes up by being easy to colour, or plate etc, but the surface has to be abraded to get paint to really stick. The simplest safe way at home is to dip in Vinegar, 10% spirit if available, (or buy acetic acid powder), it is safe and will not ruin the brass if left overnight in the solution. It cleans the meal and etches it mildly. Citric acid powder, (lemon juice), will also work in a strong solution. By strong solution I mean here as much powder as will dissolve in warm water, a saturated solution, this is mild compared to Nitric, but keep it away from eyes and skin, and clothes. As mentioned before do not use stronger acids without good reason, they are very nasty indeed. The Etching mix I use is a traditional formula, and will send shudders down the back of a Health and Safety Officer, you have been warned!!

The German to English Google translations are often thrown by German grammar, reversal of descriptions, but the Google seems fine with Italian to English, more logical grammar! But it can be thrown with German to English translations of Youtube titles, not aided by the love of nonsense titles on 1920/30's German dance band and jazz music......Such as "Aunt Paula sits in bed eating tomatoes"....yes..... that's the correct title to a 1929 hit recording !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CB59pJ13x0 Google has a good stab at the translation, but Hans Albers comedy hit record "Mein Gorilla hat 'ne Villa im Zoo" stumps it.. the lyrics should be ( don't ask why!!!) approx as below!!!!(enter "Hans Albers" on Youtube to hear the famous recording!!) or click on link below. My Gorilla Has a villa in the zoo My Gorilla Satisfied and happy lives He knows no politics And it is his greatest happiness The itch to wife And each of bothers him For the very indignant Villa Full spitting contempt My Gorilla Has a villa in the zoo My Gorilla Well, the boy is so Mrs. gorilla still holds the If he wants to kiss her views Yes if he wants then Villa My Gorilla Has a villa in the zoo Mrs. gorilla still holds the When he wants to kiss her views If he wants then Villa My Gorilla Has a villa in the zoo

The forgotten fact about etching primers is that they are meant for steel, not brass, but do work in a way on brass, as the acid does affect the zinc content, but ordinary primers are just as good on clean etched brass, and the key is etched, etched in a bath of acid to finally clean and erode the surface. Citric acid, or strong acetic acid is all right and safe, do not use strong hydrochloric, it attacks the brass far to much, removing zinc. Weaker sulphuric acid, (less than battery type), is OK, but handle with care. (Drain cleaner is sulphuric acid based and easy to buy). Simple domestic cleaners are a bit suspect as they contain oils and scents etc, and may clean loo's but also leave deposits. Cloudy ammonia can be used to clean brass, leaves no deposit.(must be rinsed though). Vim powder with a toothbrush is as good as brass for painting needs, flushed with hot water, and then washed in thinners, and then primed.(Ajax, Vim, Barkeeper's, all work the same.) If you want to, and it's at your risk, a mix of nitric acid , hydrochloric acid , and sulphuric acid, neutralised with caustic soda,(BPC) and then mixed with Soft Soap(BPC), is the very best etchant and cleaner for brass. The mix is made fresh for each use, and immersion of the brass is done into warm solution, and it takes seconds to impart a textured etched surface that looks as if it has been micro bead blasted and it glitters as well. It is the treatment clockmakers use to use for frames to get a perfect finish. If you do not understand acids, forget it, it is a toxic noxious liquid to make..........I use it myself though as I worked with it making instruments in brass. Stephen.

For non Italian readers, (mine is slow and unsure!), if you have the Google browser, Chrome, it automatically offers a very good translation of the Italian text, press the button offered at the top and it instantly displays the whole thing in English, occasionally fails on technical terms , but tries very hard!!! It detects foreign languages automatically, except on some pages where a mix exists, and it only detects fully foreign pages. Works well on You tube pages as well. Some security software tries to stop the translation button appearing, I have no trouble , but others report this. Stephen.

There's a bit about Rossi in the article about Polks and the efforts to get Rossi to change from toy making to scale locos especially for the US hobby market, which influence also brought about the move to HO European models after 1950. Early course scale Rivarossi branded items are very rare in the UK, the early US HO items are far more common. No imports were allowed from Italy till 1951 anyway, same as Germany, due to the war, but often items like these were available to US troops serving in the UK, and got sold on. Early Japanese models also turned up here via US servicemen, at a time when nobody would touch Japanese goods on principle, let alone an import ban. The first Japanese made items in the UK in the 1950's were cheap cameras and even cheaper tin plate toys, which hardly gave an inkling of what was to come from the Far East........ Stephen.