Neil

17 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

 

So, so close, but the last 'S' looks wrong to me.

That's an interesting take, to my eyes it would be the first S I'd want to tweak a bit to get closer to the unusual rather squared off look of the originals. However I worry that further tweaking runs the risk of making things worse rather than better and there's part of me that's happy with some imperfections in a model; I feel that they make a model less sterile and in some way more believable providing it's not overdone.

13 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

Wonderful and inspiring stuff Neil, just think what could be achieved in a bigger scale (ahem!)

 

Simon

I would need a considerably larger garage. :)

On 21/10/2023 at 19:32, doilum said:

Having contributed to the brittle Slaters dis cussion elsewhere, I can report that there have been no issues with the 20+ sheets we have bought for Selby.

That's good to know, must have been a duff batch or some dubious stuff entering the market place passed off as being a reputable brand.

1 hour ago, mullie said:

It is really interesting to see how you achieve the effect, thanks for posting. 

 

Martyn 

You're most welcome Martyn. It's the ability to ask questions and get timely answers that's one of the advantages of internet forums.

If we're not careful this will degenerate into the mess that the initial one did which is why I chose my words carefully. There's no implied criticism or perjorative language but there are a couple of positive suggestions that shouldn't be too far from what we usually do to be threatening.

SE Finecast for me. In the past I've been happy with Slaters but my last batch (described as Slaters) was so brittle it was all but impossible to use. It had a shinier finish than usual which is a bit suspicious but it came from a reputable seller. Here are a couple of my recent buildings clad in SE Finecast sheets.

When I was a lad most if not all large shows that I could visit were in city centre locations. York was in the Museum and Assembly Rooms, Leeds the Corn Exchange, Hull, Bristol and Blackburn in city centres too. They all had little in the way of parking, certainly no public car parking spaces though if I remember correctly there was some exhibitor and trade parking at Blackburn. 

These days it's rare to find city centre exhibitions, most being in sports halls, schools or community venues in the suburbs where parking for punters is available. I'm sure that this mainly reflects the growth of private motoring rather than a decline in public transport. I suppose this reflects societal trends towards the individual rather than the collective with a high value being placed on convenience. I think that Q4 solo vs group travel reflects this.

I think that the thread which spawned this survey and discussion degenerated into ill temper because to do something different, to reprioritise requires a bit of a change of mindset and change can be threatening and advocacy for it easily taken as criticism. The environmental impact of driving to an exhibition might seem piddling, particularly when compared to major polluters but if no one tries to do a bit better or we all wait for someone else to start then what hope is there? Maybe we start by car sharing or using the bus or train where we can?

Rick Astley, yes it's him, with an utterly joyous performance.

10 hours ago, mullie said:

I for one would like to see the stencilling process if that is possible. 

 

Martyn

No problem, I'll try to remember to take snaps as I go along. It'll be a little while as the base coats need to go on and harden off before I can start.

1 hour ago, JZ said:

What about squaring up the image in photoshop and making a decal?

I have made transfers for various items but for painted signs nothing beats painting. Actually I quite like faffing about with stencils.

3 hours ago, JZ said:

I do hope you will be doing the Stubbs sign.

 

Absolutely, it'll be another fiddly paper stencil job I think.

3 hours ago, Jon Gwinnett said:

Love the near flat, but also how splendid are the two workaday LM design wagons in the heavy shunt photo. Chapeau sir.

Thank you but they're nothing fancy just a touch of paint and weathering to the old Airfix examples.

32 minutes ago, Barclay said:

There's a great photo of 'Manna' at Peterborough in Robert Adley's 'British Steam in Cameracolour, 1962-68. By July 1963, it had German smoke deflectors, and was shockingly filthy!

Alas not a book I have but there is a photo of Manna by York's south shed in Roger Hill's 'York - The Transition Years' . It's in splendid condition, LNER pattern tender, no smoke deflectors and I've based my model on this image.

1 hour ago, Willie Whizz said:

Absolutely false to say that bus passes are "free".

 

They are not; they are only "free at point of use" - there is still a cost to making that journey, and the cost is met by National and Local Government - in other words, Taxpayers.  Being over 60 myself, but still being a Taxpayer, I appreciate this privilege, but I don't take it for granted. ....

We were talking about the immediate cost to the individual but if you want to go there then there are costs involved in private motoring above and beyond fuel, depreciation and vehicle license which are borne by society as a whole. Here are some interesting statistics on the costs of road traffic accidents and fatalities here in Great Britain and although three years out of date it gives some idea of the tab picked up by the public purse as a whole. Then there's the environmental cost, here's what car and van emissions cost the NHS each year. Even mundane stuff like traffic jams come with a financial cost to society, here's a report from nine years ago which gives the total projected hit to the UK economy as more than three hundred billion over sixteen years.

10 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said:

... To get people using public transport in the first place it must be:

(a) available and convenient at all

(b) attractive - or at very least not unpleasant - to use, and

(c) more affordable than available alternatives.  .....

More affordable, well it's possible to do that by raising the cost of private motoring rather than lowering the cost of public transport. Don't forget that if you're over sixty in Wales and Scotland or at state pension age in England then buses are free and you can't get cheaper than that. Given the amount of grey hair seen at the average model railway exhibition I would think a good proportion of visitors would be eligible for this benefit.

I'm beginning to wonder if the debate is less about practicalities and cost and more about personal choice. Given the cost of rtr stuff today and the buying habits of many, for most, public transport will be affordable and it's just that there's a resistance to paying the price when compared to using ones own car. Making a comparison between fuel cost and ticket price masks the true cost of car use. Do we fool ourselves that it's the cheap option? Bizarrely the foregoing discussion seems to argue that you have either to have loads of disposable income to use public transport whereas there are those too poor to afford to run a car; are trains and buses the realm of only the poor and the wealthy?

Sustainable exhibition visiting is possible. I live in Tywyn and in the years when I've plucked up sufficient courage to visit Warley have done so by train. Unless it's wazzing it down I walk the half mile to the station, my mates who live locally drive to Machynlleth, park and take the train in. We've done this for shows in Shrewsbury too. Group rates bring the cost down if travelling with friends.

I help with the Corris Railway's annual show in Machynlleth, setting up the hall on Friday I took the train in, likewise on Saturday but I was a bit scuppered on Sunday so had to drive in but I also need to give a lift home to one of the layout operators who lives too far from the station for it to be a viable walk. With a Cambrian Railcard the return fare is not far off the cost of petrol and the journey is much nicer, more relaxing.

It has to be admitted that I don't much like driving these days so will take public transport where I can but it's environmental  reasons as much as this dislike that motivates my choices.

Generally this guidance for the UK from the Intellectual Property Office (the official govt. advice) covers pretty much all we would need to know about copyright. It's written in an accessible style too. However there are exceptions listed here which I think goes some way to answering the initial enquiry, in particular these parts on parody and fair dealing seem appropriate.

"Parody, caricature and pastiche

There is an exception to copyright that permits people to use limited amounts of copyright material without the owner’s permission for the purpose of parody, caricature or pastiche.

For example a comedian may use a few lines from a film or song for a parody sketch; a cartoonist may reference a well known artwork or illustration for a caricature; an artist may use small fragments from a range of films to compose a larger pastiche artwork.

It is important to understand, however, that this exception only permits use for the purposes of caricature, parody, or pastiche to the extent that it is fair dealing."

"Fair dealing

Certain exceptions only apply if the use of the work is a ‘fair dealing’. For example, the exceptions relating to research and private study, criticism or review, or news reporting.

‘Fair dealing’ is a legal term used to establish whether a use of copyright material is lawful or whether it infringes copyright. There is no statutory definition of fair dealing - it will always be a matter of fact, degree and impression in each case. The question to be asked is: how would a fair-minded and honest person have dealt with the work?

Factors that have been identified by the courts as relevant in determining whether a particular dealing with a work is fair include:

does using the work affect the market for the original work? If a use of a work acts as a substitute for it, causing the owner to lose revenue, then it is not likely to be fair

is the amount of the work taken reasonable and appropriate? Was it necessary to use the amount that was taken? Usually only part of a work"

Though I've directly quoted a couple of relevant sections it's well worth reading both the general guidance and exceptions to get a full flavour of the intent of the law and to get a sense of how it would be likely to be interpreted by the courts, though avoiding the courts would be a very good idea. 

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