APOLLO

As a retired gas engineer with 40 years at the sharp end both in operations (gas leakage / mains renewal) and planning (replacement gas mains) I can vouch cold, still winter nights 4pm - 8pm is when the gas load (and no doubt electricity also) is highest.

As gas loads grew, especially in the 1980's, every very cold peak evening we were out checking pressures in affected areas (poor pressures at peak times due to load growth). We did a hell of a lot of work replacing mains with larger ones, reinforcement mains, etc. Over time the gas pipeline systems nationwide were made fit for purpose, and not many problems occur locally these days - BUT the problem is still security of supply at peak times. Yes certain large loads are interuptable and this helps, along with many other methods. Remote / end of system locations are automatically monitored and pressure adjusted to demand.

These days it's gas injection into the system to balance demand that is all important, )as is electricity generation into the grid). 

Gas is easily stored these days by line packing the high pressure transmission mains, most low pressure holders have gone. There is LNG storage and salt cavity storage also, but a depleted field in the North Sea used for storage until recently has been found to have serious geological problems and to be decommissioned - a bit of a serious blow as it held quite a lot of gas (it was filled in summer months). The nation currently does have a bit of a gas storage problem for very cold prolonged winter spells.

Storing electricity (as mentioned) is a different kettle of fish - more work is required and indeed is being done.

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The goods yard was part of the old L&Y original Wallgate station This old map shows the yard with a turntable - which I think existed up to the 60's (not sure though)

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/index.cfm#zoom=18&lat=53.5445&lon=-2.6344&layers=168&b=1

An interesting little area that I can't remember visiting much. I remember the name Wilds though. Right opposite NW station was (still is) a gate which once allowed access to a wooden high level excursion platform. (shown on the above map). I never saw it used, the sidings there were used for coach stabling for North Western station until the 70's. This entrance is also now a car park and the high level (L&NWR) coach sidings are long gone though the embankment is still there.

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A wartime grey painted 1930 Vulcan body AEC Regent.  It is pulling a producer gas trailer in 1943.

A coal-gas-powered bus on the streets of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, England, 1944. Owing to petrol rationing, bus companies throughout Britain fell back on compressed-coal-gas systems (which were pioneered in the 1890s) to run their fleets. A hundredweight of burning coal gave a bus a range of about 100 miles. It was smelly and smoky, but it allowed the transport companies to stay in business. Some buses pulled a large trailer that featured large burners to produce the gas that was stored in tanks. Others carried a large balloon-like bag on top (like the Newcastle bus above) — the gas was usually generated as the bus went along and stored in the bag. There was a considerable loss in power by using gas, so if a bus had to go up a hill, the passengers had to get out and walk up while the lighter, empty bus preceded them and waited at the top. Some cars also had a small balloon-type gas bag on the roof, but these only gave the car a range of about 20 miles before having to be refilled

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Yes tidal barrages (Severn, Morecambe etc) are a feasible way forward, The Severn barrage seems to have been ruled out recently for various reasons, mainly cost & environmental.

Wind is important, but the UK also needs alternative / additional peak base load - that is either nuclear, gas or coal, sensibly a mixture of those (as we currently have). I doubt we can manage without nuclear power. Our existing plants are getting old, lots of too-ing & fro-ing re a proposed new one.

I'm not anti anything, except smart meters = peak time rate pricing (yet to come), but a lot of our future energy requirements / solutions seem to be based on future technology that either does not yet exist or is in it's infancy.

Add to the mix the rapidly rising number of electric cars coupled with existing infrastructure requiring upgrading to cope I foresee many big problems going forward.

Of course the universal answer will be to tax more / pay more. But that won't sort out the problems.

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The "gas" in gas turbines is the hot products of combustion that spin the turbine blades.. As this RR vid explains

http://html.investis.com/R/Rolls-Royce/corp/interactive-games/journey03/

Thus a steam turbine uses steam to spin the blades, a water turbine uses water etc. A gas turbine can use various fuels, liquid or gas (even coal dust has been tried).

As to the fuel cell car - great - no emissions "on the road".  BUT ---

Where does the Hydrogen come from ?  It takes more energy to make hydrogen (electrolysis mainly) than the energy it gives out. Where does THAT energy (to make the hydrogen) come from, and how "green" is it.?.

I'm not demeaning modern technology, or attempts at reducing or eliminating CO2 etc. But it is the SHEAR SCALE of the energy load we all use each and every day. A gallon of petrol or diesel (or aviation fuel) contains a hell of a lot of energy, which being a liquid is easily transported / utilised. A VERY hard act to replace.

Mentioned on the Tornado thread, look at these figures updated in real time.

http://www.ukenergywatch.org/

Gas input from the North sea at Easington right now is 

That's one hell of a flow, it's the first of May, cool but not freezing. Most of that gas is going to power stations. How many wind farms are needed to give THAT amount of energy input ? I don't know right now - I'll have a stab at the math !!

Quite simply. There are no "free lunches" in the energy field. Certainly not in the UK (yes Wind helps a lot - but has it's own "problems" such as on a cold freezing still winters night when high atmospheric pressure (no wind) covers the country, and demand for energy is at peak.

Interesting subject for it's own thread though.

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In Wigan (Wiggin) we have our Jackbit at breakfast, dinner, teatime and (if you must have that last pie before bed) supper.

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Network Rail did a lot of tree pruning / felling last year on the West Coast main Line Wigan to Standish.

As I live within 100m of the line I got a letter beforehand inviting me to a meeting at a local church hall, which I attended (out of curiosity mainly). A well presented meeting, with lots of photos, plans etc. I believe there were a few objections, but the work was done - mainly at night / weekends.

The result was that not a great deal of significant tree loss was evident. Many large almost lineside trees had gone - they needed to go as the line is electrified - but most "barrier" trees behind them were just pruned where needed. There are still many, many trees along this bit of heavily used track.. 

Well done I say to Network Rail for the work done here.

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Silly idea I think for many reasons already mentioned - especially in our small island(s)

It may be feasible in the USA, but flying is the long distance norm over there. No infrastructure needed other than airports (which already exist) and the technology is well proven.

Put it another way - you will never get me in one of those (remember dad saying that about flying though !!)

Not much can beat the Aluminium wing in the air, or the steel wheel on a steel rail.

Back to the drawing board Elon !!

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This "class" thing and where you (they !!) shop has me in stiches at times.

I remember Lidl opening in nearby Standish (just north of Wigan). We were in there and saw a neighbour - who quickly "apologised" to be there as she said "I wouldn't normally shop in a place like this etc"

I shook my head thinking "This is Wigan - we don't do posh here" !!!!!!!! It was the same at Sainsburys (the other way round !!) when that opened years ago.

But I still call Asda the Grottle shop  !!!!!!!

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Delivery of a suitably weighty brown envelope to a bloke in Milton Keynes, oops, shouldn't have said that...move along, nothing to see here.

So that's where the broken motion bits will be sent to !! - Not a lot of scrap value though.

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This is interesting re network rail & trees in today's news.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/29/millions-of-trees-at-risk-in-secretive-network-rail-felling-programme

As to "Lord" Peter Smith of Leigh, Wigan council, the forthcoming council elections etc - the least said the better. (rmweb rules).

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The big Chinese loco at York has both - it's Chinese but was built at Vulcan in Lancashire.

https://collection.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/co205814/chinese-government-railways-steam-locomotive-4-8-4-kf-class-no-7-steam-locomotive

I'm planning a day out in York soon with a retired (non railway enthusiast) mate. If (hopefully not) the museum is poor then I hope the beer at the Bootham Bar pub is as good as it was years ago !!!

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Yes the energy industry (mainly emissions regulations driven) is in constant change (hopefully) for the better to us all, even Tornado fans (future coal burn).

This is also an interesting site     http://www.ukenergywatch.org/

Shows wind farm input.

Look at the nations gas inflows page - currently Easington is 941.4 m³/s, that's 81.34 Mm³/day - a hell of a lot of gas, mostly going to power generation.

It can't last forever at these flows. I don't know how long, 5 years ?, 10?, 50? - there are many (conflicting) projections.

My point is wind farms and other renewables can't match this sort of huge raw power input into the system. Coal and the hundreds of pits did so for over a century, but that is history. We are (and have been for quite a while) importing LNG from abroad, and may soon import via pipeline from Russia via the existing European gas transmission network & North Sea interconnectors. That is a political nightmare.

Its a question of supplying peak base load. We are cutting it thinner and thinner every winter, just about scraping through.

Quite simply we (the UK) will need new base load generation ((Nuclear Tidal barrage etc), very soon. If not those of you with smart meters will painfully find out what they are capable of - emptying your wallet at peak times.

JIB pins the future on renewables, I have my doubts. It's the sheer size of the gas and electric loads at peak in winter. 

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Called in Asda Wigan yesterday (known locally as the Grottle shop !!). The place has gone down the nick recently, many things they used to stock now no more.Beer is cheaper at Tesco which (in Wigan) have improved their act recently. Sainsburys is also so-so, was once seen as "Posh" (for Wigan) - now no more, very bland like Morrisons.

It's Aldi & Lidl for most shopping for us, not a great deal of choice but decent quality though we've noticed their prices creeping up recently.

A new Polish supermarket opened in town centre recently. Mrs does some shopping there as the meat there is better than all the other supermarkets. They have some other foods we like, and I've tried (and like) some Polish beers. Parking a problem though as it's town centre.

The retail sector is taking a hammering currently, as this article posted today explains https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/952659/High-street-shops-closing-figures-report

We (wife & I) have absolutely NO shop / brand loyalty. We shop where the quality is highest and the price is lowest - i.e. we shop around.

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It was taken from Taylors lane bridge, or the embankment alongside. The signal box was a bit further north, as in this photo (not mine) also taken from the bridge. You can see the shadow of the signal gantry in this photo.

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Do you all appreciate that there is no such thing as money these days. It's all just a collection of 0's and 1's in some far away computer.

No wonder the rich diversify their wealth into tangible assets like art, classic cars gold etc.

One day the whole bloody lot will go bang and re-set to zero. Be warned.

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Not trains but - 

A few years ago family & I flew to Thailand with Lufthansa. Outbound Manchester to Bangkok via Frankfurt Boeing 737 and 747. Seats etc good. No complaints

Return was a different story. Bangkok to Munich, VERY uncomfortable, an Airbus A340, terrible close seat pitch, thin and uncomfortable seats. Even the Germans on board were complaining, The plane was brand new. Munich to Manchester was a small Airbus, leather seats at a very good pitch. I remember telling the Mrs "I could fly round the world in this aircraft - it's great"

I'm sure these plane / train / bus etc company's "try it on" with the punters, and if they get away with it try it on again.

I fly Emirates A380 now via Dubai. Not superb - but comfortable, and certainly value for money. At least flying to Thailand I have a choice of several airlines. Not much choice travelling by train in the UK. They have you by the short and curlies (especially commuters).

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Agree jib. Travelling by train, plane, car etc is getting to be a PITA these days. 

I loved travelling by all the above years ago, many times just for the travel experience. Not so today, I travel now only when I need to. Easier to stay at home, in comfort, and watch old travel you tube vids !!!!!

Chat on the York museum thread of 650mph travel in a pod in a tube - stuff that I'll walk !!!!!!!!!

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In 2000 I visited the (small but interesting) Railroad museums at Sacramento and the Nevada railway museum at Carson City. Speaking to staff at both, they had visited York and confessed that York was the finest railroad museum in the world, almost apologising for the size of their own. No matter, the Southern Pacific Cab Forward at Sacramento was mightily impressive, and we got to ride one of those "hand pumped" railcars at Carson City. Both museums are well worth a visit if you are over there.

Back to York. I took the family there just after the Japanese bullet train arrived. Great day out and even my wife was impressed. Last time I went was the Great Gathering and even then I was still impressed. Same with Shildon a few years ago - perhaps better than York, certainly as interesting.

So it's sad to read the above posts. I'm getting sick of all this politically correct management super hype we all haved rammed down our throat these days.

Developed by award-winning design company North, the new brand aims to bring a visual cohesion to the Science Museum Group whose five museums share an astonishingly diverse collection spanning science, technology, engineering, mathematics and medicine.

Illumination is a central feature of the new identity, explored both through the changing font weight in the new logo and the use of vibrant colour gradients elsewhere within the graphic language. For the Science Museum the illuminated font suggests change and progress; at the National Science and Media Museum, Bradford, it evokes the rise of technologies such as photography that manipulate our emotions with light; at the National Railway Museum, York, and Locomotion in Shildon, the approach could capture that visceral moment when a great plume of steam envelops onlookers as the Flying Scotsman thunders past at lightning speed;

And this gem from here     http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/16187250.National_Railway_Museum_s_revamp_hit_by___13m_funding_blow/

The news comes as the museum unveiled Britain’s first prototype Hyperloop pod, developed at the University of Edinburgh, as a sign of the organisation’s focus on the future. Hyperloop technology could one day see passengers travelling in pods at speeds of up to 650mph inside near-vacuum tubes. It would mean the journey between York and London could take just 20 minutes.

Yipee York to London in 20 minutes crammed in a pod !!!!  What utter shyte (pardon my French !!).

I took the family for down to London last summer hols. (via Pendolino - along with some fish from the garden pond to flush down the train toilet !!!!). We visited the Science Museum which though good is rapidly going downhill with the interactive drivel. The queue for the Natural History museum was a mile long so we visited the V&A across the road - now THAT is a museum, quite interesting and well worth a visit. I hope they don't spoil that.

By the way the Museum of Science & Industry at Manchester is very good and worth a visit for the railway fan. (well it was last year !!).

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OOOOOhhhh you are a fussy lot !!!!!

Bit of good, bad, pleasant and unpleasant on every layout. I never walk away tut-tutting, rather seek out the good (to me) bits.

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And what a set of tossers we have as candidates to vote for !!! (nuff said !!)

Agree Owd Bob regarding jumping on the bandwagon - not just Wigan they ALL do it, even up to No 10.

I don't think the Trans Pennine units will be serviced here, they have a new facility in Manchester. I reckon it's more a replacement / enlargement of the existing Wallgate facility for local trains. We will see.

Springs Branch in the good old days - taken by my dad.

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Like it or lump it the transport world today mainly runs on diesel.

Ain't enough resource in power generation, storage (batteries, lithium etc) to completely go electric. (especially vehicles).

Anyway, our kids will find out.

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Some Southern Region suburbans were painted green - not ex LNER teak stock though.

The ex LNER ones got a bit dirty & tatty towards the end (late 50's) according to most photos. Difficult to tell sometimes if they were Crimson, Maroon or Teak. I've seen very few colour photos of these coaches.  Perhaps Tony Wright's "Little Bytham" layout is worth a look at here on rmweb (Wright writes)..

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Page 12 explains TRUST

https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Catalogue-of-Railway-Code-Systems.pdf

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