APOLLO

The event is being described in some newspapers as a "British Enron" scandal.

Brit15

And the bu**ers bombed my Grandads favourite pie shop !!!!! (Railway content - the New Springs branch is shown - gave the name to Springs branch where the famous shed was built at its junction with the WCML). They were after the Steel works at Kirkless (Wigan Coal & Iron Co) but the prevailing wind decided otherwise.

Brit15

My little helper - now 17 & at college. She built the rockery under the trestle bridge - the layout hasn't changed much here, but now has working signals (my twin girls helped with wiring runs under the layout a couple of years ago - extra pocket money and no back ache for me well worth the "commission" !!).

Brit15

Kev I can only echo what others have said and wish you all the very best in your "fight" - and fight with might you certainly will, you're a Wiganer !!

All the best

Lindsey

Thrutchers and Twichers is what I call locos that barely move when powered. Usually worth a fiver, and I can usually get them to work as The Johnster describes above - had quite a few, some for only a quid, some given to me also. If they cannot be made to work I strip em for spares, the rest is off to my model scrapyard !!.

Some of the locos for sale by the Liverpool boxshifter are just no -no's, certainly not worth the asking price given the description of some, I only buy occasional new bargains from them (and I have always had good service from them I must add).

Yes books and mags are seemingly worth little today. I insure my model railway and book collections together, (I use magnet model insurance), insured value is based on replacement cost equal to what I paid for them. What they are worth (or not) will be of little concern when I'm aboard the last "westbound".

Some good stuff is available on ebay - but again be careful. I've just bought some as new O gauge Weaver American freight cars, special run paint jobs, boxed for £30 each - a bargain considering the size of them compared to the size and cost of British O scale.

Brit15

Quite so.

It started to go down the pan when some lefty social reformer got them to put a roof on the peasant class vehicles.

Bernard

There's a new sign for going "down the pan" where the 800's run !!

Brit15

On the whole if offered the choice of todays railway or the railways from my youth, even though it'd be nice to bring back all those classic locomotive classes I'd take the railway of today every time.

I remember commuting Wigan to Liverpool back in 1969/70 attending Riversdale Tech. A 2 car DMU, always packed, standing room only out of Lime Street, sometimes not able to get on and a 30 min wait, all trains were stoppers - a bl**dy awful journey. Today we have (secondhand) 4 car ellectric 319's, 3 trains / hour, one of which is an express - 2 intermediate stops only. Superb

In 1971/2 I attended Stretford tech in Manchester (near Man U's ground). That journey was a 6 car DMU Southport - Wigan Wallgate- Salford - Manchester express, nearly always got a seat, the centre cars were unpowered therfore quiet !! A far better journey. Today it's either a nodding donkey or suchlike, total rubbish. Or walk over to North Western station and catch a trans Pennine Express Edinburgh / Glasgow to Manchester Airport Class 350 EMU - takes around 20 mins but always full - standing room only from Wigan and a scrum to get a seat coming home. On this route the old times were definitely better.

Thank god that's the only train commuting I ever did. I couldn't wait to finish my apprenticeship and buy a car !!

Brit15

I'm not too interested in today's railways, but if I was to make a model of Wigan North Western station as it was today I could make a very good stab at it with what's available / recent models. Pendolino's Voyagers, Various Northern DMU's,  350's (would have to be repainted - Trans Pennine vinyl overlays are / were available).  Not sure about 319's. though. Steam specials would be easy though.

On the freight side I reckon most stuff is available, but as a lot of freight passes overnight you can always run anything and switch the lights off !!! (I've lived line side for 20 odd years, but haven't got a clue about overnight train formations etc). 

I have read displaced East Coast 91's and Mk 4 coaches may make an appearance soon on London - Blackpool trains.

I don't think the modeler of today's scene has it bad at all, though it depends on chosen location.

Brit15

The trouble is you know that there are simply far, far to many prototypes and liveries, and a myriad of combinations of the two to satisfy everybody, both mainstream and more specialised modelers. Quite a lot of models "that would sell" will, quite simply, never be made, ever.

I think we should all be grateful for what we have available, right now, both new, and previously released (probably available s/hand).

I started off with Tri-ang TT which was a fading range & scale back in the 60's, with very little choice, but we improvised and carried on. It was a big occasion when Tri-ang renamed it's TT Britannia from 7000 Britannia to 70036 Boadicea back in 1963 - (both of which I still have !!). Nothing else was renumbered as far as I remember, a choice of a dozen locos and the GEM / BEC white metal kits.

I now model  both in OO and American O scale - the latter of which little is available new here in the UK. Weaver, a major manufacturer in the USA closed down (due to retirement) a few years ago. A shame as it was an excellent firm to deal with, I ordered a couple of custom paint diesels from them back when £1 = $2. Now I get by by scouring Ebay etc and have found many bargains the past few years. Yes I have to compromise and make do - but for me that is part and parcel of the hobby.

As to current costs - simple, if you really want it & can afford it - buy it. I have my personal cost / value cut off points - which cut off quite a bit these days !!!!

Brit15

This was the layout that made me build a gasworks all those years ago,i remember buying lattice girder channels from Hamblings to build the gas holder.These layouts still hold a charm of their own,the buildings covered in Merco smokey brick paper certainly transports me back to an age that was far less complicated!.

 

                       Ray.

Merco smokey brick paper - WONDERFUL STUFF !!. Nothing like that available anymore (or if it is where can I get it from ?).

That particular Borchester layout was a superb layout (as was Frank Dyers two layouts of the same name) - They had more "atmosphere" than most fine scale layouts today.

Brit15

Did they ever stretch new cables on a crane in the yard? By hanging a ladder in midair like you use to see when I was a kid? As that's the only way I can think of using one with the jib up, with out designing a crash on a layout.

You could model a Blue Pullman crashed into a train of derailed parrot wagons being recovered by a couple of cranes. 

Cost you a fair few bob though !!!!

Brit15

Your layout certainly has some industrial town atmosphere. Nice photos.

Brit15

Now that this topic has wandered into the interesting subject of diesel/petrol car comparisons, can anyone explain the physics/chemistry of the difference in omissions?

Some info here  http://www.air-quality.org.uk/26.php

Brit15

Getting the national debt down mainly, which is nearly as large as the UK's. But doing it in a targetted way that is attempting to change people's behaviour towards energy use, rather than the previous policies, by both left and right, of punishing both companies and individuals in more general taxation. Whilst this is being done, other taxes are being reduced, the most notable for individuals being the tax d'habitation (the partial equivalent of the Council Tax in the UK), by 20% per year, accompanied by a total re-valuation process, to ensure the replacement taxation becomes more progressive. What happened to that 2010/2015 manifesto promise in the UK exactly?

 

French railway season tickets do not need more subsidy. They are already subsidised at around 50-60% (depending on Region - such matters are now devolved) which is around 20-30% better than anything the UK now manages.

 

The French are now embarking on reducing the fixed taxation burdens of French industry, by a gradual conversion to taxation/social charges based on actual earnings/profits (dependent on element), unlike the inhibitive fixed contributions of past regimes. I have yet to observe a more progressive taxation regime for SME's in the UK, the corporation tax changes in hand being favourable almost entirely to large or giant businesses.

 

So take your auto-prejudice and direct it to better informed comment, I would suggest.

Apologies - I didn't mean to offend, but it seems to be that a lot of so called "Green" taxes in many countries are not ploughed back into public transport, as I think they ought to be. Reducing council tax is fine, but probably not at the expense of transport in general. I agree re CO2 but we (the planet) are probably past the tipping point, huge problems going forward I agree - but all I see is tax, tax, tax. - doesn't solve the problems as people will simply pay more to continue their ways.

Brit15

Tax tax tax - so what will the French Government actually spend the extra fuel tax on - subsidise French railway season tickets ?

No - I don't think so.

Brit15

Brass Deltics 22 of 'em !!

Brit15

For my birthday my sister bought me the book "The Severn Tunnel, it's construction & difficulties 1872 - 1887" by Thomas A Walker (Nonsuch publishing).

A very interesting book, describing in detail the water ingress difficulties etc, with many period plans and drawings. What hard and skilled men were bred back then.

It is said in my family that my great grandfather was a young mine ventilating engineer from Wigan, and worked on the Severn tunnel ventilation system at some (unknown) time. He married a Welsh girl and settled in Pentrebach, (near Merthyr) working at local collieries in the area, his son, my grandfather moving "home" to Wigan in his youth. I wish I knew more about this, but alas time has erased the facts.

Anyway, this is an interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQho8DUMHJA

Brit15

A nice selection and thanks to Andy & Hornby.

A Peckett and a J36 will do for me. i'll pre order to make sure of a Peckett this time !.

Brit15

With regards to "long straights and gentle curves" I could model neither on my O gauge North American layout. The Rock Island - my chosen line to model was a "Granger" (Prairie) railroad, most lines were (fairly) straight and level across the Prairies - no good at all for a 22' x 12' garage. So I had to invent. The Rock did get to Colorado Springs, on the edge of the Rockies, so my line is an imaginary extension from here into the Rockies via the long abandoned Colorado Midland railroad. 

Sharp bends and fierce gradients, tunnels and trestles a plenty, along with some (Bachman) Narrow gauge for interest. My trains are long (20 cars) and need two diesels which scream and slip over the road. The few old steam locos are now relegated to pushers (bankers) on the longer loaded mineral "drags" The couplings actually groan, metal wheel flanges squeal but the trains (nearly) always get over the road. I've had the odd coupling split apart, though derailments are few (but usually spectacular !!). I use Peco track thus the yard / station layouts were determined by the Peco point geometry. I really enjoy operating this layout - every train is a challenge !!

Most construction is finished, but lots of detail / stock repainting / weathering etc still to do, and I must get stuck into the old "craftsman" kits I've had for donkeys years.

Brit15

My last week of steam at Carnforth, Rose Grove & Lostock Hall photos here. Scroll down to 5 albums.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/136789710@N03/albums

We bought a North west rover that week. happy yet sad time, I was aged 16.

Brit15

A BAC (The British Automatic Company Ltd)  "Print your own metal nameplate" machine

More info here

https://pennymachines.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=631

Brit15

So it's five new engineers wagons then !!!

Brit15

In my local area, Wigan, we had three locations where steam banking engines were used daily.

1. WCML Wigan North Western to Boars Head / Standish, heavy goods trains northbound, in the early 60's usually a Jinty or Black 5 (or whatever else was the station pilot at North western station).

2. Ince Moss to Platt Bridge jcn (Manchester bound goods) or to Rose bridge Jcn (Whelley loop). Also Bamfurlong to Rose Bridge jcn (Northbound goods over the Whelley loop). Usually a Black 5,8 or WD 2-8-0.

3. Westwood Park signal box (halfway between Hindley & Pemberton on the Pemberton loop) up to Orrell. Up to 1964 when the coal trains disappeared / re routed. Uusually a Fowler 4F tender loco. (Liverpool bound coal trains from Yorkshire usually 8F or WD hauled).

The short stretch from Ince Moss to Fir Tree House Jcn (where the line crossed the WCML) was the fiercest, due to mining subsidence over the years. one of my favourite spotting points before the end of steam (and the line closed) firework shows were almost every hour !!.

These views I took from Taylors Lane, just south of Springs Branch around 1966/7. You can see the fierce gradient. Can't find any banking pix at the moment though. I'm sure I have some somewhere.

This off the web

This shot is the Widnes to Long Meg (Settle & Carlisle line) Anhydryte empties, signal is off for the Whelley loop. A 9F on empties didn't need a banker here.

Banker returning to Westwood park signal box (in the background). Courtesey of Wigan World website.

Wonderful days.

Brit15