APOLLO

It's criminally insane to sell land / property purchased for the Manchester (and Golborne link) lines. As we march forward to 2050 etc (net zero) the line will be needed at some point. The route must be kept and mothballed. Property and farmland etc bought can be rented / leased, always with the proviso of future railway construction. But our Governments of all colours only see ££££, mostly for themselves and their mates. What a mess we are in. Brit15

Many years ago the west feared The Cossacks, brave and fearless fighters. The Cossacks are mostly eastern Ukranians. The Russians have bitten off more than they can chew. Brit15

Wobbly wheels ? -- Russians have huge balls of steel !!! http://pigeonsnest.co.uk/stuff/yarmolchuk/monorail.html Brit15

When I worked for The North Western Gas Board at Longford works in Warrington back in the mid 70's there was a grey telephone in the entrance lodge. Pick up the receiver and only a ticking sound could be heard. It was connected to the UK "early warning system" so I understood, 4 minutes (or so) warning. What was funny was that nobody, boss included, had a clue what to do if ever that phone rang, and the lodge was unmanned overnight. !!! (It did occasionally the lodge man told us, just a verbal "test only" message). Happy days !! Brit15

I'll be off to here. It's a secret place, (well signposted) so it's easy to find in an emergency !! £15.80 entrance fee, A bargain !!! https://www.hackgreen.co.uk/ Brit15

The Northern Powerhouse will get these. Brit15

Just announced - New HS2 stock. Non tilting, third class only, no toilets, 3+2 seating. Whaw don't they look swish !!!!! Brit15

Gawd it goes from bad to worse. No tilting, shorter trains, no first class, no doubt knifeboard seats AND no doubt a premium to be charged for the high speed bit from just north of Birmingham. I bet the drivers plan a strike for the opening day also !!! Forget the "problems" around Wigan, the "problems" lie ellsewhere, in London, by the side of the Thames. What a fiasco. Anyway this is the flyunder still existing at Standish Jcn. They can't cancel our dreams (yet) !!! Brit15

Interesting videos. You learn something every day, the Douglas viaduct exists (there were two of them and one crossed the other !! Brit15

The problem is not really the M6, it's getting to it from around Lowton to Orrell and getting back to the WCML at Standish. Very hilly and many new houses. The Whelley line is a no brainer, route exists, not many problems etc. No tunnels are required. (And it's not in my backyard either !!!!!!). Brit15

Lovley day and just back from a walk with the Mrs to Haigh Hall, a local country park. We walked over the Whelley line twice on two separate bridges. The route here is now an overgrown badly (zero) maintained footpath, but intact and not built on. Many other bridges and the (I think) Douglas viaduct are gone, but they were probably unsuitable anyway. I've just "flown over" the Whelley Loop (and GC line to Lowton) on Google Maps and it's still mostly there, but a lot of housing built over the years is alongside. I notice that a significant portion is now labelled (on Google) "National Cycle Route 55". Problem ? I don't know. I can't see any significant build on the whole route. It is not very curvy and would not cause any significant problems for non tilting high speed trains. North of Preston though is, as discussed, another matter. This is the ONLY practical route around Wigan - to the east. The curvy and very hilly west route is allready taken by the M6 motorway, lots of new build etc around Orrell & Standish. Going southeast to get to Lowton (or the WCML) would be difficult also. (bottom RH side of map) The map below shows the railways to the south of Wigan. The original Golborne Link came in bottom centre over the GC line around Culcheth / Lowton then swung left to join the WCML at Bamfurlong. To use the Whelley loop it would continue up the GC and join the Whelley loop at Hindley & Platt Bridge (a connection once existed here), and continue north via Amberswood & Whelley. Route still exists. East and North via the old Whelley line. Can't see many problems (other than houses alongside) at Standish Jcn either. The photos in the previous post above show the original 4 track that was apparently electrified. Easy to reinstate to 4 tracks from Standish Jcn, the overhead spans are allready in !! That's the route sorted. All we need now is a few quid !!!!!!!! Brit15

I forgot to add, Weaver Junction to Golborne through Warrington has two twin track bottlenecks also. A few miles Weaver Jcn to Walton Jcn, mostly rural but the M56 motorway to go under. Then it's 4 track over the Mersey & Manchester Ship Canal and on through Warrington to Winwick Jcn. Winwick Jcn to Golborne Jcn (The existing one, a connection to the Liverpool & Manchester line) is around 2 miles of twin track through a longish rock cutting with once again new housing etc alongside. There's a severe curve at Golborne Jcn (south of the proposed Golborne link flying Jcn) that even forces Pendolinos to slow a bit. A difficult area to rebuild hence ££££££. Then it's straight, fast 4 track from here to Wigan NW. I doubt any of the above happening. Andy Burnham is only interested in London Manchester / Trans Pennine services, not the Scottish expresses through Warrington & Wigan etc. Poor old Liverpool gets nowt !! Also I understand the new trains will be non tilting. Good luck with those north of Preston !! Brit15

Yes, very good idea and knowing the area VERY do-able. But the viaduct over the River Douglas has gone, and expensive housing alongside. (Not London expensive, Wigan expensive - they have glass in the windows and inside toilets !!!!). Brit15

Just north of Wigan NW is the bridge over the Wallgate lines, not an easy spot for 4 tracking, hemmed in by industrial units on the other side of the photo. The Wigan to Standish section was planned for 4 track by either LNWR or LMS and indeed a rebuilt bridge abutments were built for 4 tracks at Walkden Ave. Most is on a 2 track embankment with new (ish) and old housing alongside. Perhaps do-able but there will be objectionable Wiganers !!!!!!! The rails in the road are a whole different story !! Frog Lane Bridge, just north of Wigan NW, built on a curve and incline by the Wigan and Preston railway in the1830's would be difficult, a brand new school on one side and extensive housing on the other. Such a shame if this magnificent skew arch stone & brick structure had to go. A wonderful bridge indeed. Next up after Walkden Ave is Spencer Rd bridge. Built just before electrification, 4 tracks seem possible here. Past my house would be OK (ish). Neighbours won't be happy, I would !!!! Next is a footpath bridge to the Cemetary that would need rebuilding, The impressive stone arch 2 track Boars Head Bridge would have to go. Right alongside this is my local, The Boars Head pub. You can see the bridge right alongside. The pub dates back to 1450 AD, so there will be objections etc. No room here for 4 tracks, Pub one side and new housing on the other. Then after that no great problems !! (apart from money !!) Brit15

It was to be a flying junction to the fast lines according to the original plans. Brit15

Wiganer here. I live right alongside the 2 track WCML 1 mile north of Wigan - THE bottleneck. Golborne (proposed junction) to Bamfurlong is 4 track. (2 miles approx). Bamfurlong to Wigan South Jcn (Just south of Wigan NW station) is currently 6 track, then 5 tracks for last mile. More or less dead straight - no problem. Wigan NW north to Euxton 2 tracks - THE bottleneck, then 4 tracks to Preston & 2 tracks beyond. There were 4 tracks from Standish Jcn to Euxton (4 miles or so) but 2 tracked in 1973 when electrified. Could easily be reinstated. The Wigan by pass Whelley loop (Bamfurlong to Standish) was closed at the same time as electrification but the route bed is mostly still intact. I doubt this will be rebuilt. Anyway there is no money so bu**er all will happen re track capacity improvements around Coccium (Roman Wigan). I cant wait to see the Daventry - Mossend DIESEL hauled container trains slogging up the 1 in 150 bank alongside my house up Boars Head bank being chased by the 225 mph HS2 premium fare expresses to Glasgow !!! 225 mph trains whizzing past my house - Gee Whizz, can't wait !!!!! Edited to add. 4 tracking Wigan NW to Standish would be very costly, a very built up area (look on google maps). I very much doubt this happening. Brit15

Yanks have flooded tunnels sorted !!! https://finance.yahoo.com/news/york-citys-giant-inflatable-plugs-162100683.html Brit15

Widnes certainly has changed, and like everywhere continues to do so. As a gas engineer on emergency call my area was Warrington, Widnes, Runcorn, Frodsham and Helsby from around 1975 to 2003 (apart from a 4 year spell Wigan & St Helens). All had their varying industries, some old and dying, some new, a lot now gone. Widnes though was where most "action" was, old odd size cast iron mains leaking and breaking, tons of industry both old and new. Chemical works that really did "get up your nose" - Many gas escapes I attended were not "our" gas, but we had to attend and investigate, 24/7. Searching for the errant factories emissions etc was fun (not), I could tell many tales. It was not like the photo I posted though, well, not quite !! Over my time I saw the decline of the old and some new industry also including some newly built huge plants. BOC had a new state of the art air liquefaction plant alongside the viaduct, now sadly gone. (Olivias BOC tank wagons) Most of the 1970's new plants have also long gone. USAC (United Sulphuric Acid Co) was a large smelly, hazardous place, now gone (Anhydrite trains Long Meg to Widnes). Fiddlers Ferry power station (built early 70's) also, the cooling towers were recently demolished (MGR trains over Woodhead and from Lancashire collieries - all gone). My home town Wigan lost coal iron & cotton slowly from the 20's, as a youth I saw the last of it. All long gone. Warrington and St Helens can tell similar stories. Anyway, what is Widnes like today ? I've not been for quite a few years. I would say "Breathable" !!!!!! View over the West Bank (no not THAT one !!) - Note Fiddlers Ferry power station - now gone. This is the general area (I think) in the smoke photo, looking in the other direction. I wonder why (!!) ? Brit15

Sad but that's where we are at. Brit15

Good News. The USA needs to get industrial again. They have the resources, energy, knowledge and manpower. But have they got the will ? Brit15

How Green Was My Valley !!! Or as we said in Wigan "How high was my slagheap" !!!!!!!!!!! Or as they say in Yorkshire "Where there's muck there's brass" You can't have industry 'bawt muck" the Widnesians once spluttered !! Brit15

It got to Ribble Jcn, just south of Preston 44 min early and presumably terminated there. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H01803/2024-01-21/detailed Brit15

Yes our railways neet to get more severe weather ready. I wonder what is built into HS2 specs regarding future increases in such severe weather events. Brit15

And, as in all wars, it's not the common folks to blame whatever their race or religion. It is the leaders, politicians, and of course they follow one god - MONEY, the west included. Brit15

Thunderbirds are go gone !! Any excuse these days to not run trains. Brit15