APOLLO

Yes, very good idea and knowing the area VERY do-able. But the viaduct over the River Douglas has gone, and expensive housing alongside. (Not London expensive, Wigan expensive - they have glass in the windows and inside toilets !!!!). Brit15

Just north of Wigan NW is the bridge over the Wallgate lines, not an easy spot for 4 tracking, hemmed in by industrial units on the other side of the photo. The Wigan to Standish section was planned for 4 track by either LNWR or LMS and indeed a rebuilt bridge abutments were built for 4 tracks at Walkden Ave. Most is on a 2 track embankment with new (ish) and old housing alongside. Perhaps do-able but there will be objectionable Wiganers !!!!!!! The rails in the road are a whole different story !! Frog Lane Bridge, just north of Wigan NW, built on a curve and incline by the Wigan and Preston railway in the1830's would be difficult, a brand new school on one side and extensive housing on the other. Such a shame if this magnificent skew arch stone & brick structure had to go. A wonderful bridge indeed. Next up after Walkden Ave is Spencer Rd bridge. Built just before electrification, 4 tracks seem possible here. Past my house would be OK (ish). Neighbours won't be happy, I would !!!! Next is a footpath bridge to the Cemetary that would need rebuilding, The impressive stone arch 2 track Boars Head Bridge would have to go. Right alongside this is my local, The Boars Head pub. You can see the bridge right alongside. The pub dates back to 1450 AD, so there will be objections etc. No room here for 4 tracks, Pub one side and new housing on the other. Then after that no great problems !! (apart from money !!) Brit15

It was to be a flying junction to the fast lines according to the original plans. Brit15

Wiganer here. I live right alongside the 2 track WCML 1 mile north of Wigan - THE bottleneck. Golborne (proposed junction) to Bamfurlong is 4 track. (2 miles approx). Bamfurlong to Wigan South Jcn (Just south of Wigan NW station) is currently 6 track, then 5 tracks for last mile. More or less dead straight - no problem. Wigan NW north to Euxton 2 tracks - THE bottleneck, then 4 tracks to Preston & 2 tracks beyond. There were 4 tracks from Standish Jcn to Euxton (4 miles or so) but 2 tracked in 1973 when electrified. Could easily be reinstated. The Wigan by pass Whelley loop (Bamfurlong to Standish) was closed at the same time as electrification but the route bed is mostly still intact. I doubt this will be rebuilt. Anyway there is no money so bu**er all will happen re track capacity improvements around Coccium (Roman Wigan). I cant wait to see the Daventry - Mossend DIESEL hauled container trains slogging up the 1 in 150 bank alongside my house up Boars Head bank being chased by the 225 mph HS2 premium fare expresses to Glasgow !!! 225 mph trains whizzing past my house - Gee Whizz, can't wait !!!!! Edited to add. 4 tracking Wigan NW to Standish would be very costly, a very built up area (look on google maps). I very much doubt this happening. Brit15

Yanks have flooded tunnels sorted !!! https://finance.yahoo.com/news/york-citys-giant-inflatable-plugs-162100683.html Brit15

Widnes certainly has changed, and like everywhere continues to do so. As a gas engineer on emergency call my area was Warrington, Widnes, Runcorn, Frodsham and Helsby from around 1975 to 2003 (apart from a 4 year spell Wigan & St Helens). All had their varying industries, some old and dying, some new, a lot now gone. Widnes though was where most "action" was, old odd size cast iron mains leaking and breaking, tons of industry both old and new. Chemical works that really did "get up your nose" - Many gas escapes I attended were not "our" gas, but we had to attend and investigate, 24/7. Searching for the errant factories emissions etc was fun (not), I could tell many tales. It was not like the photo I posted though, well, not quite !! Over my time I saw the decline of the old and some new industry also including some newly built huge plants. BOC had a new state of the art air liquefaction plant alongside the viaduct, now sadly gone. (Olivias BOC tank wagons) Most of the 1970's new plants have also long gone. USAC (United Sulphuric Acid Co) was a large smelly, hazardous place, now gone (Anhydrite trains Long Meg to Widnes). Fiddlers Ferry power station (built early 70's) also, the cooling towers were recently demolished (MGR trains over Woodhead and from Lancashire collieries - all gone). My home town Wigan lost coal iron & cotton slowly from the 20's, as a youth I saw the last of it. All long gone. Warrington and St Helens can tell similar stories. Anyway, what is Widnes like today ? I've not been for quite a few years. I would say "Breathable" !!!!!! View over the West Bank (no not THAT one !!) - Note Fiddlers Ferry power station - now gone. This is the general area (I think) in the smoke photo, looking in the other direction. I wonder why (!!) ? Brit15

Sad but that's where we are at. Brit15

Good News. The USA needs to get industrial again. They have the resources, energy, knowledge and manpower. But have they got the will ? Brit15

How Green Was My Valley !!! Or as we said in Wigan "How high was my slagheap" !!!!!!!!!!! Or as they say in Yorkshire "Where there's muck there's brass" You can't have industry 'bawt muck" the Widnesians once spluttered !! Brit15

It got to Ribble Jcn, just south of Preston 44 min early and presumably terminated there. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H01803/2024-01-21/detailed Brit15

Yes our railways neet to get more severe weather ready. I wonder what is built into HS2 specs regarding future increases in such severe weather events. Brit15

And, as in all wars, it's not the common folks to blame whatever their race or religion. It is the leaders, politicians, and of course they follow one god - MONEY, the west included. Brit15

Thunderbirds are go gone !! Any excuse these days to not run trains. Brit15

From what I read (and view) Globalisation is falling apart at the seams, as apparently is China. But China is huge and has a very long way to fall, we will see. China want Taiwan, especially TMC who make high end chips (using machines built in The Netherlands & ARM (British) technology, amongst many others. I believe the USA is building a huge high end chip plant in case Taiwan falls. It will be interesting to see high end steels can be made out of Heinz bean tins, with renewable energy. The world is entering a dark phase (Ukraine, Gaza, Iran, Yemen, N Korea, Russia, CCP (Chinese Communist Party) etc are all agitating increasingly. The world's policeman (USA) is asleep and skint. Brit15

Money would be better spent storm proofing the WCML north of Preston. Pretty windy last night, most Avanti trains cancelled, but late PM a diesel hauled Daventry - Mossend container train "stormed" past my house, Real time trains showed it running 42 minutes early through Wigan. Our railways (Avanti etc) are a joke. Brit15

Kleine Fahrt or Langs Fahrt Zuruck ? Repair is on the way, has to call at Alaska Air first. What a palava. Brit15

"Buy land, they're not making it anymore." - Mark Twain Brit15

Also here https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/andy-burnham-working-private-companies-28422968 https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/manchester-and-west-midlands-mayors-form-private-sector-group-to-explore-improved-rail-links-06-12-2023/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hs2-northen-rail-north-uk-b2482151.html I can't see much happening though ££££££££££££££ We will see. Brit15

The merging of steel producers and resultant closures has been relentless over time. Wigan once made its own iron & steel, local coal, ore from Cumberland. Local small firms merged to form The Wigan Coal & Iron Company, a huge concern at the turn of the last century. Later WC&I merged with several other companies to form The Wigan Coal Corporation, and the Wigan works was closed in the 1920's with production moved to a vast new works at Irlam (Near Manchester) alongside the Manchester Ship Canal & CLC railway, and became the Lancashire Steel Corporation. Later Nationalised, this large facility was closed in the early 70's. I suppose Ravenscraig, Consett, Middlesborough, Workington, Scunthorpe, Corby, Ebbw Vale, Llanwern, Port Talbot etc have similar histories. BUT the cessation of ALL blast furnaces / iron & steel production IN THE UK is a national folly of immense strategic and economic signigicance. Once gone it will never return. Brit15

Good question. I am not knowledgeable regarding Steel, but I doubt specialist steels can be made from recycled steel of many grades, contamination and former purpose. For instance new nuclear submarines are under construction at Barrow. No doubt special steel needed for the hulls which I doubt would be a recycled product. And steel from China is very questionable regarding quality, especially construction steel. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/yorkshire-industrialist-sir-andrew-cook-calls-for-wholesale-ban-on-unsafe-chinese-steel-imports-3250370 https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/steel-producers-warn-on-chinese-rebar Recycle yes, but quality steel (which we currently manufacture) is THE problem when we soon cease production. Brit15

I see it as another nail in the coffin of British industry. We will all be living in caves soon (that we will not own) but we WILL be happy !!!!!! Brit15

With two wars going on right now with no end in sight, and one of those seriously affecting trade through the Suez canal etc I think it is lunacy to even think about ending UK steel production. Brit15

Send that message to India, China, USA, Russia and Australia who supply both India and China with many millions of tons of Iron Ore & Coal (Russia and the USA have ample supplies of both, AND intend to use it). I agree re recycling though I would not like to be on a HS2 train riding at 225mph on rails made by recycled Heinz bean tins though. Ever warming world ? - Minus 6 this morning here in Wigan. I'm getting thoroughly sick of the green agenda being thrust down my throat while the rest of the world do next to nothing AND take all our industry etc with it's inherant CO2 etc emissions. We in the UK will be industrially impotent very soon, and financially insolvent very soon after. Think carefully. Brit15

This carbon footprint milarkey will reduce us all to cave dwellers without a wood fire at the entrance !!!!!!!!!!! I wonder where HS2 rails will be made, or will HS2 be paved over and used as a busway to save yet more money ? Brit15

In the gas industry we were always busy Feb & March with mains diversions / mains renewals prior to road resurfacing etc for various local authorities who had to spend money (or loose it) before the start of the next financial year, usually April. Brit15