APOLLO
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Posts posted by APOLLO
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10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:
Has all the land been given away i wonder. Even in 1914, and still in 1990 (albeit with some minor changes approaching Wigan) all the ex LNWR WCML was either quadruple, or even sextuple, all of the 21.75 miles from Golborne Jcn to Preston except for the 7.5 miles between Wigan North jcn and Balshaw Jcn
Quadrupling the stretch north of Wigan station might well present problems in places, especially in Wigan itself buta lot of that section still lies in open country. Yes it would cost money but carried oiut with effectib ve project management it is only going to be in the millions and way short of billions.
Creating. a totally new HS2 route between Crewe and Preston would be a massively expensive project passing through a lot of built up areas (even more so than going to Golborne Jcn) and I doubt it would stand up as a project compared with other ways of increasing route capacity north of Golborne Jcn where even if the track no longer exists the basic earthworks (and some underbridges) do.
Are the original bridges south of Preston (for sextuple track) still all there?
Just north of Wigan NW is the bridge over the Wallgate lines, not an easy spot for 4 tracking, hemmed in by industrial units on the other side of the photo.
The Wigan to Standish section was planned for 4 track by either LNWR or LMS and indeed a rebuilt bridge abutments were built for 4 tracks at Walkden Ave. Most is on a 2 track embankment with new (ish) and old housing alongside. Perhaps do-able but there will be objectionable Wiganers !!!!!!!
The rails in the road are a whole different story !!
Frog Lane Bridge, just north of Wigan NW, built on a curve and incline by the Wigan and Preston railway in the1830's would be difficult, a brand new school on one side and extensive housing on the other. Such a shame if this magnificent skew arch stone & brick structure had to go. A wonderful bridge indeed.
Next up after Walkden Ave is Spencer Rd bridge. Built just before electrification, 4 tracks seem possible here.
Past my house would be OK (ish). Neighbours won't be happy, I would !!!!
Next is a footpath bridge to the Cemetary that would need rebuilding, The impressive stone arch 2 track Boars Head Bridge would have to go.
Right alongside this is my local, The Boars Head pub. You can see the bridge right alongside.
The pub dates back to 1450 AD, so there will be objections etc. No room here for 4 tracks, Pub one side and new housing on the other.
Then after that no great problems !! (apart from money !!)
Brit15
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9 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:
I seem to remember that a criticism of the Golborne spur was that the junction was to be with the slow lines. Or am I imagining?
Jonathan
It was to be a flying junction to the fast lines according to the original plans.
Brit15
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Wiganer here. I live right alongside the 2 track WCML 1 mile north of Wigan - THE bottleneck.
Golborne (proposed junction) to Bamfurlong is 4 track. (2 miles approx).
Bamfurlong to Wigan South Jcn (Just south of Wigan NW station) is currently 6 track, then 5 tracks for last mile. More or less dead straight - no problem.
Wigan NW north to Euxton 2 tracks - THE bottleneck, then 4 tracks to Preston & 2 tracks beyond.
There were 4 tracks from Standish Jcn to Euxton (4 miles or so) but 2 tracked in 1973 when electrified.
Could easily be reinstated.
The Wigan by pass Whelley loop (Bamfurlong to Standish) was closed at the same time as electrification but the route bed is mostly still intact. I doubt this will be rebuilt.Anyway there is no money so bu**er all will happen re track capacity improvements around Coccium (Roman Wigan).
I cant wait to see the Daventry - Mossend DIESEL hauled container trains slogging up the 1 in 150 bank alongside my house up Boars Head bank being chased by the 225 mph HS2 premium fare expresses to Glasgow !!!
225 mph trains whizzing past my house - Gee Whizz, can't wait !!!!!
Edited to add.
4 tracking Wigan NW to Standish would be very costly, a very built up area (look on google maps).
I very much doubt this happening.
Brit15
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Yanks have flooded tunnels sorted !!!
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/york-citys-giant-inflatable-plugs-162100683.html
Brit15
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1 hour ago, Reorte said:
Think you've posted that one before. What does the same view look like now though? I rather suspect that if you had that old one just without the smoke I'd much prefer that.
Widnes certainly has changed, and like everywhere continues to do so.
As a gas engineer on emergency call my area was Warrington, Widnes, Runcorn, Frodsham and Helsby from around 1975 to 2003 (apart from a 4 year spell Wigan & St Helens). All had their varying industries, some old and dying, some new, a lot now gone.
Widnes though was where most "action" was, old odd size cast iron mains leaking and breaking, tons of industry both old and new. Chemical works that really did "get up your nose" - Many gas escapes I attended were not "our" gas, but we had to attend and investigate, 24/7. Searching for the errant factories emissions etc was fun (not), I could tell many tales. It was not like the photo I posted though, well, not quite !!
Over my time I saw the decline of the old and some new industry also including some newly built huge plants. BOC had a new state of the art air liquefaction plant alongside the viaduct, now sadly gone. (Olivias BOC tank wagons) Most of the 1970's new plants have also long gone. USAC (United Sulphuric Acid Co) was a large smelly, hazardous place, now gone (Anhydrite trains Long Meg to Widnes). Fiddlers Ferry power station (built early 70's) also, the cooling towers were recently demolished (MGR trains over Woodhead and from Lancashire collieries - all gone).
My home town Wigan lost coal iron & cotton slowly from the 20's, as a youth I saw the last of it. All long gone. Warrington and St Helens can tell similar stories.
Anyway, what is Widnes like today ? I've not been for quite a few years. I would say "Breathable" !!!!!!
View over the West Bank (no not THAT one !!) - Note Fiddlers Ferry power station - now gone. This is the general area (I think) in the smoke photo, looking in the other direction.
I wonder why (!!) ?
Brit15
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26 minutes ago, IWCR said:
Yes I was aware of the problems with the coal mine however at the end of the day the Welsh Government has decided it wants to go green totally, this was the last significant mine, there is now no large scale coal mining at all, it and the jobs are gone. Industries which need the coal then also end. Tata have announced they will go electric (with government help) but this is a large reduction in workforce and there is nothing now tying the facility to this site. When the subsidies dry up expect total closure, it is cheaper to make the bulk iron and steel abroad where the ore is mined.
Pete
Sad but that's where we are at.
Brit15
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5 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:
ARM creates intellectual property only - no actual hardware. Their IP is widely used by companies that design semiconductors - not necessarily semiconductor manufacturers. ASML (Netherlands) is the leading supplier of semiconductor manufacturing equipment to the manufacturers.
The US Chips Act should result in multiple wafer fabrication facilities being constructed. TSMC is building one near Phoenix, Arizona. Samsung is building one near Austin, Texas. Intel committed to build a new one in Ohio.
Good News. The USA needs to get industrial again. They have the resources, energy, knowledge and manpower.
But have they got the will ?
Brit15
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How Green Was My Valley !!!
Or as we said in Wigan "How high was my slagheap" !!!!!!!!!!!
Or as they say in Yorkshire "Where there's muck there's brass"
You can't have industry 'bawt muck" the Widnesians once spluttered !!
Brit15
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4 hours ago, Northmoor said:
Did that Mossend service continue to its destination? I'd be surprised if it wasn't looped somewhere North of Preston, with the driver's hours counting down all the time.
It got to Ribble Jcn, just south of Preston 44 min early and presumably terminated there.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H01803/2024-01-21/detailed
Brit15
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Yes our railways neet to get more severe weather ready.
I wonder what is built into HS2 specs regarding future increases in such severe weather events.
Brit15
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And, as in all wars, it's not the common folks to blame whatever their race or religion.
It is the leaders, politicians, and of course they follow one god - MONEY, the west included.
Brit15
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2 hours ago, melmerby said:
90mph winds over Shap (several lorries blown over on M6) , other peoples debri getting tangled in the OHE.
What would you suggest?
Thunderbirds are
gogone !!
Any excuse these days to not run trains.
Brit15
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8 hours ago, jjb1970 said:
We are not abandoning steel production, the idea that replacing blast furnaces with electric arc processes means we are is scare mongering. A far more flexible production process, which can be much cleaner and which has a lot more potential to keep British steelmaking viable. If it's about being reliant on imports (and those nasty Chinese, never miss an opportunity to raise that dark spectre) then that train left the station years ago. Why so much concern about steel, advanced semi-conductors are a bigger vulnerability in the modern world if it's about national security.
From what I read (and view) Globalisation is falling apart at the seams, as apparently is China. But China is huge and has a very long way to fall, we will see.
China want Taiwan, especially TMC who make high end chips (using machines built in The Netherlands & ARM (British) technology, amongst many others. I believe the USA is building a huge high end chip plant in case Taiwan falls.
It will be interesting to see high end steels can be made out of Heinz bean tins, with renewable energy.
The world is entering a dark phase (Ukraine, Gaza, Iran, Yemen, N Korea, Russia, CCP (Chinese Communist Party) etc are all agitating increasingly. The world's policeman (USA) is asleep and skint.
Brit15
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Money would be better spent storm proofing the WCML north of Preston.
Pretty windy last night, most Avanti trains cancelled, but late PM a diesel hauled Daventry - Mossend container train "stormed" past my house, Real time trains showed it running 42 minutes early through Wigan.
Our railways (Avanti etc) are a joke.
Brit15
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Kleine Fahrt or Langs Fahrt Zuruck ?
Repair is on the way, has to call at Alaska Air first.
What a palava.
Brit15
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"Buy land, they're not making it anymore." - Mark Twain
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1 hour ago, DenysW said:
If the Daily Express posted on this thread it would get the Party Political warnings. I therefore believe it not on topics that are likely to make the party its supports appear good.
Also here
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hs2-northen-rail-north-uk-b2482151.html
I can't see much happening though ££££££££££££££
We will see.
Brit15
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The merging of steel producers and resultant closures has been relentless over time.
Wigan once made its own iron & steel, local coal, ore from Cumberland. Local small firms merged to form The Wigan Coal & Iron Company, a huge concern at the turn of the last century.
Later WC&I merged with several other companies to form The Wigan Coal Corporation, and the Wigan works was closed in the 1920's with production moved to a vast new works at Irlam (Near Manchester) alongside the Manchester Ship Canal & CLC railway, and became the Lancashire Steel Corporation.
Later Nationalised, this large facility was closed in the early 70's.
I suppose Ravenscraig, Consett, Middlesborough, Workington, Scunthorpe, Corby, Ebbw Vale, Llanwern, Port Talbot etc have similar histories.
BUT the cessation of ALL blast furnaces / iron & steel production IN THE UK is a national folly of immense strategic and economic signigicance. Once gone it will never return.
Brit15
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1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:
What do people propose for British steel making? Serious question.
As long as I can remember steel works in the UK have lurched from closure threat to closure threat, with a lot of downsizing and job losses. We outsourced much of our heavy industry and we are neither a low labour cost, low energy cost nor especially productive economy meaning we're not especially well positioned to export steel.
Electric arc furnaces and a focus on recycled steel at least give a possibility of a viable long term future, trying to keep the existing model will just kick the can down the road for a year or two and probably end up in complete closure.
Good question.
I am not knowledgeable regarding Steel, but I doubt specialist steels can be made from recycled steel of many grades, contamination and former purpose. For instance new nuclear submarines are under construction at Barrow. No doubt special steel needed for the hulls which I doubt would be a recycled product.
And steel from China is very questionable regarding quality, especially construction steel.
https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/steel-producers-warn-on-chinese-rebar
Recycle yes, but quality steel (which we currently manufacture) is THE problem when we soon cease production.
Brit15
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I see it as another nail in the coffin of British industry.
We will all be living in caves soon (that we will not own) but we WILL be happy !!!!!!
Brit15
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With two wars going on right now with no end in sight, and one of those seriously affecting trade through the Suez canal etc I think it is lunacy to even think about ending UK steel production.
Brit15
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39 minutes ago, Neil said:
As I see it the principle downside to the closure of the blast furnaces and their replacement with an electric arc furnace is the lost jobs. We need to move to greater recycling of materials and this would take us a step in that direction. Unless we want to see an ever warming world for our children and grandchildren then we have to change how we do things; the old ways can't continue. It is magic thinking to imagine that tackling climate change can be done without change and that we should have some sort of special exemption for polluting industries that contribute to global warming.
Send that message to India, China, USA, Russia and Australia who supply both India and China with many millions of tons of Iron Ore & Coal (Russia and the USA have ample supplies of both, AND intend to use it).
I agree re recycling though I would not like to be on a HS2 train riding at 225mph on rails made by recycled Heinz bean tins though.
Ever warming world ? - Minus 6 this morning here in Wigan. I'm getting thoroughly sick of the green agenda being thrust down my throat while the rest of the world do next to nothing AND take all our industry etc with it's inherant CO2 etc emissions.
We in the UK will be industrially impotent very soon, and financially insolvent very soon after.
Think carefully.
Brit15
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This carbon footprint milarkey will reduce us all to cave dwellers without a wood fire at the entrance !!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder where HS2 rails will be made, or will HS2 be paved over and used as a busway to save yet more money ?
Brit15
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In the gas industry we were always busy Feb & March with mains diversions / mains renewals prior to road resurfacing etc for various local authorities who had to spend money (or loose it) before the start of the next financial year, usually April.
Brit15
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HS2
in UK Prototype Discussions (not questions!)
Posted
Yes, very good idea and knowing the area VERY do-able. But the viaduct over the River Douglas has gone, and expensive housing alongside. (Not London expensive, Wigan expensive - they have glass in the windows and inside toilets !!!!).
Brit15