frobisher

As I understand it, there was a difference in the control systems between the EMUs and DEMUs which would come into play.  The two types couldn't work together so effectively isolating the two from each other would stop the problem occurring (because let's face it, if you could connect two MU types together, SR would do it).  So that might have pre-empted the obvious step of making the DEMUs bimode.

On 23/06/2023 at 00:17, luke_stevens said:

Just to check, the Blue Grey HST (ER) has the correct introductory 254 number but seems to have the electrification orange strip on the cab-end. I don't think that's correct for 1977.

 

Can anyone confirm when the HST's started to get the orange stripes?

The set numbers persisted well into 80's. But a quick trawl around seems to indicate that first ones didn't have them in 1977 but the stripe is present in PCs in 1979 so there is definitely crossover.

On 13/06/2023 at 13:11, ColinB said:

I assume you are talking about a code management system or are you assuming that they have designed their software to have a separate layer for the Apple/Android interface. We are talking about a very low cost system here probably implemented by a team of a couple of people. I think you are getting confused with much higher cost projects. If the Android and Apple systems differ by the amount I get told, then I doubt it is that easy. It can't be otherwise it would be available now.

With the right code framework (and plenty are available), the size of your team should have no real impact on cross platform development.

If you chose to develop with no such framework, start on one and then port to the other then again your team size will have little effect on the self inflicted shots to your feet.

32 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

Agreed - in the online brochure that I have they are listed on page 15 below the images of the HSTs - Classes 31, 37, 47 and 60 from various eras for Phases 3 and 4 (no dates given, though).

The "obvious" gaps for now for another manufacturer would be classes 20, 24/25, 26/27/33, 40, 44/45/46, 55 and 56 (which mildly favours potential activity from Heljan over the others out there).

8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

But thats about intellectual property.

 

Gosh these pacers are very similar dont you think ?

And that's all about ownership of tooling and/or source CAD files and/or "loopholes" in contracts

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

If these models were developed by Bachmann at Barwell but are under the EFE brand because they were produced outside the Kadar supply chain, that's a new development of the EFE brand I believe? And quite a noteworthy one . (The only alternative is that they were developed by AN Other using EFE as a route to market)

Which could perhaps be a way for Bachmann Europe to unclog its (unseen) development backlog against the internally imposed production allocation.

1 minute ago, Pmorgancym said:

Same with blueray and HD disc I believe, the porn industry adopted blue Ray and everyone else followed.   

A big factor for Bluray was the Playstation 3 having it (it worked out to be a relatively cheap BD player at the time) which pushed a lot of purchasing of films during the initial games content drought, but there was plenty of early adult content on HD-DVD (JVC again...) and no region locking on any content.

8 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

Rental companies chose VHS over Beta because VHS was cheaper, and had longer tapes, which was what consumers wanted. You need 90m or 120m to record a film. Betamax only had 60m tapes at first.

There's also the porn factor, Sony originally blocked adult content being released on Betamax, JVC didn't care, that was a major driving factor in the rental market as well...

On 09/06/2023 at 15:42, melmerby said:

Unfortunately a lot seem to think that Apple phones are still the majority, like they used to be, but Android now outsell Apple.

And pretty much has done since Android launched (and I very much had a professional interest then...).

5 hours ago, No Decorum said:

I’d have thought that the insult would have required a comma after “questions”. Salutations to a fellow fusspot! 😄

Not if you're criticising the questions, and hence the questioner. 😃

4 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Eight numbers going up to at least 321? The odds of you winning are so low I think you will be disappointed!

You just need a better set of numbers... I'm thinking 6,8,9,10,11,13 and a bonus of 40 ;)

2 hours ago, StuAllen said:

Also I try to avoid public networks from a security point of view, I don’t know who else is on the network so am unwilling to trust them.

Unless you've left your device wide open, you're as safe as using your own wifi or phone connection in general.  People in general have a very skewed version of how security and risk actually works, and some of the most paranoid about "security" and "the man" are still doggedly running Windows XP PCs in an irony free zone...

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

Citadel did them a few years ago. Problem is they are like hens teeth and were a bit on the tall side working out well over six feet tall.

 

They also did a packet of Daleks V Cybermen which was a plastic sprue of about twenty each.

By "a few" you mean 30+ years ago... But those were 28mm gaming scale, rather than the 20 to 22 mm scale needed, which is a very uncommon gaming scale, and they weren't that detailed, at least compared to the more recent Eureka or Warlords 28/32mm ones (there's been a steady trend to upsize, Citadel/Games Workshop started at 25mm nominally back in the late 70's).

14 hours ago, Porfuera said:

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here but presumably that will be some dealers eating into their own profit margin in order to boost sales, possibly because they shift larger volumes and get more favourable prices from manufacturers as a result. I'd be willing to bet that those prices you're quoting are not universal and if you look around you'll find shops that sell at RRP or close to it.

Is the Hornby Class 50 you're referring to an online sale? Presumably it is up to them what discount they offer if they're selling directly as there's no dealer margin to factor in.

OTOH if you're trying to compare two different prices of two different locos from two different manufacturers then I don't see your point. Prices vary according to the level of detail or the size of batches or dealer discounting or for many other reasons.

One thing we can probably assume at the moment is that Hornby are benefitting from a higher margin on direct sales for TT (hence the TT Club discount after which they are still making a profit I should hope) and ultimately if they start selling through retailers they'll need to maintain the current levels of RRPs or there will be a stink.  We'll see discounted levels at retailers similar to the discount the TT club gives I should reckon.

So a 33% price difference on RRP between a roughly similar item with Hornby and Heljan shows one or more of the following;

1. The cost of manufacture is quite different between the two due to differing specifications
2. Heljan were keen to stick to a known price point (i.e. that of 00)
3. Heljan may have been front loading more of their development risk than Hornby

What we've seen so far is that Hornby have sensibly opted for more moulded detail than they do in 00, and the CAD Heljan showed of their 31 seemed to indicate construction more like their newer 00 models, which leans into 1. above at least, though 2. would inform 1.

At the moment, Hornby are setting the rules for the market, Heljan quickly learnt from that.

10 hours ago, andrewshimmin said:

I don't quite get this. If other manufacturers were serious about producing e.g. the Class 31 I think it was, why not produce it? Surely Hornby entering the market with track, rolling stock, publicity, etc, would only *boost* sales?

Sure, Hornby had a Cl 31 on their list, but not for several years. Someone else could have sold plenty of their version before that. Maybe Hornby would have dropped it in favour of something else.

I still don't get why they suddenly withdrew 🤷‍♂️.

Hornby's approach is somewhat all encompassing, but with no proper indication of time scales.  Until Hornby has actually released some of the promised items that seemed to gazump those other announcements, is it a commercial risk you would take to "dip a toe" to the tune of several hundred thousand pounds?  Duplication at this stage of the game on locos in particular would be a very bad thing.  The early indications were that Heljan were aiming at a different price/feature point than Hornby as well, which could have been catastrophic.  Heljan cut their losses at the tens rather than hundreds of thousands of pounds point.  I'd not rule Heljan coming back for a second stab down the line when it is obvious how Hornby's development cycle is working in this instance, and I'll call their Deltic now in that regard.

On 11/05/2023 at 09:17, Legend said:

 

Over on the Cavendish thread it was pointed out that the light clusters on the 507/508 were changed, updated , so that is something that would need to be accounted for , other than that I think bodywise they are the same . The pantograph car has slightly different windows between a 313/314 .  I think the 314 has an additional small window at the pantograph end .  But if you look at the variations built into the tooling for  Deltics , 37s (in particular) and 31s surely such things could be incorporated into an emu tooling

I'm not 100% sure about the 313/314/315 but there were early differences between the 507 and 508, notably the 508 external passenger door switches that were plated over when they were sent to Merseyside.

3 hours ago, newdecade1986 said:

What are the odds of Mk2"d"s in Scotrail blue stripe appearing any time soon, to sit between the DBSOs and BG/Mk2a sets that still don't appear to have sold out everywhere yet? Seems like the sort of thing a retailer might be willing to take an exclusive punt on.

Quite low I would say as there are no MK2Ds tooled up in N at the moment.

47 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Does anyone know where I might actually find one of the newer ones, and how to tell it apart from the old ones? I’d assumed that they looked completely different but perhaps not. Is this one? https://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/hornby_spares/x6405_hornby_spares_bogie_class_86.htm

That's the dummy bogie unfortunately, the one you want is X6404 which they don't seem to have :(

Whilst the prototypes all have the same wheel base, (86,87,90) I seem to recall that at least one of these differ on the Hornby, Limby and Hornby models respectively and I can't remember which if any match the 86

X6413 Hornby Spares - Motor Side Frames Class 86 and Class 87 - New Modellers Shop - This seems to indicate that the 86 and 87 have a common wheel base now so the 90 may be right but incorrect for your purposes?

But the part for the 87 is X6114 and for the 90 is X6274 (X7904 is the older non-nem version which should be fine for your purposes if the right wheel base)

They do have the ones for the Class 90 :(

X6274 Hornby Spares - Drive Unit - Class 90 (newmodellersshop.co.uk)

X7904 Hornby Spares - Drive Unit - Class 90 (newmodellersshop.co.uk)

18 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I’m aware that there is a more recent version of the Hornby 86, presumably with improved running qualities. Are the powered bogies from these usable or do they actually have the motor on the main chassis frame, meaning I wouldn’t be able to get the independent 4-wheel bogie that I need for my project?

The new ones are power bogies like these, just with a can motor rather than a ringfield one and generally run a bit more sweetly.

2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Price apart, Mk2Ds are prime Deltic fodder and hence an obvious hole in the range.

Plus there were 2Ds that were built for IE...

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

If that proves to be the case - the lights will be too bright.

 

Even if you were on the platform, it would have been nigh-on impossible to recognise a friend in a stationary lit coach after dark.

 

It is becoming abundantly clear that many younger modellers have no concept of the inefficiency of coach lighting during the steam era.

As it's simulating gas lighting, how about we just say it's fine, repeatedly and all will be good..?

[Hat, coat and door located...]

I have a vague recollection of metal polish loaded cotton wool type product (Duraglit?) working in removing this "back in the day" as it seemed to shift this kind of staining/tarnish like nobody's business...

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Class 369 ?

 

Do you mean 769 ?

 

or something else ?

Yes on 769, and DOH! on 369.

43 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Nope!

 

The 369s were dumped because:-

 

(1) They were expensive to lease

(2) They were proving unreliable / still not in public service

(3) The DfT are pushing for big cuts* - including train services and train lengths so as to "recompense hard working taxpayers" (only 2% of whom use the railways) for all the cash they put into the industry during the Pandemic.

(4)  With the cuts mentioned above, GWR can just about cope with keeping a batch of Turbo units at Reading to cover this service (and the Thames Valley branch lines)

 

* The remaining GWR HST fleet are going with no additional stock to replace them for the exactly the same reason. 

Well yes, I suppose I should have said that any consideration to keeping the 369's on at all went out the window when they had the potential to home grow a similar solution.

53 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Any idea how they’ve been got into service post the demise of Vivarail?

Vivarail - Wikipedia says...

Quote

In November 2022, the company entered into administration. Assets of Vivarail have been purchased by train operating company GWR. GWR bought intellectual property, rolling stock and equipment relating to the development of high-performance battery and Fast Charge technology to continue Vivarail's work in these areas. The technology is being trialled between West Ealing and Greenford.[4]

And taken on 9 of the staff too, so clearly they see some kind of future.

Ah, this also might explain why the 369's weren't taken up...