gordon s

Thanks for the info re Darlington, Baz, just what I had hoped for. A set of plates duly ordered, so they will be here when I get back.

This really has been a trip down memory lane for me to recall those wonderful days when life was simple and we were blessed with living, breathing steam locos every day. 

I could have stood at the the end of ET platform every day, such was the variety of trains passing through thanks in no part to Rule 1......

I thought both of these would be staying with the Midland side of ET, as they were based in Carlisle Kingmoor during the mid 60's, but just noticed the shed plate on 70002 says 31B so that's March which would place it '59 and pre date its move to Carlisle. Both look good at the head of a fast express from ET to the Capital.

I certainly saw 70002 Geoffrey Chaucer at Kings Cross or Liverpool Street as it was on shed at Norwich and March in the late 50's before crossing over to Carlisle in the '60's. Personally I prefer the later tenders with the high sides as shown with 70048 The Territorial Army, again from Carlisle, celebrating 50 years of the TA.

Both DJH kits from Graham and approaching 20 years old. Nicely built and painted and soon to be pressed into daily service. Seems they both need a good dusting after being packed away for so long.

One day I'll get round to painting the platforms and brickwork, but track changes are the first priority.

Here's the real thing. A beautifully turned out Britannia at Virginia Water on a steam special. 7th June 2012.

Apologies for the self indulgence of posting pics of locos, but I haven't seen them in a while and need to take pics to catalogue them.

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The J50 is all but finished!

 

 

I'm awaiting the front numberplate, and, in my rush to take its picture, the Glue 'n' Glaze hasn't quite set in the spectacles.

 

 

Just visible are the rear spectacle guards. They're not supplied in the kit, but came from a fret, ex-Dave Cleal, I think. 

 

I thinks it's turned out OK, though if I were to attempt to build one on commission, I doubt if I'd have any takers. £280.00, plus my time. Over £580.00 for an 0-6-0T? I think not!

 

Anyway, that's not the issue here. It's been donated and I'm donating my time, all proceeds going to CRUK. I'll not weather this; whoever buys it can then please him/herself.

 

 

Many thanks for donating your time on this model, Tony. As expected, you have done an excellent job in finishing a half built kit, particularly from a total kit beginner who no doubt made many mistakes along the way. I’m pleased to hear the chassis ran well as I can relate to the mechanical bits and soldering brass in alignment is something I can cope with. 
 

I totally agree with the sentiment that kits are for those loco’s and stock not available from the RTR manufacturers, but at the time I bought the kit a J50 was not available. As always it’s Sod’s law that you buy a kit and then someone announces a new model.......

I thought we were all talking about a new product which is way ahead of anything in the market at present. If you are expecting a range of turnouts that will accept every wheel known to man over the last 50 years then I suspect you are going to be disappointed.....

The attention to detail in sleeper spacing, common crossing and moulded chairs is phenomenal and this will be a step change for those modellers who want better looking and performing turnouts, yet do not want to build their own. I’m certain they will accept all modern RTR stock straight from the box, but it doesn’t matter if you are talking about turnouts, computers, cameras or music media, every new product doesn’t mean back compatibility with everything that went before.

They will work straight from the box. They will look great and are much better than anything seen before. Let’s look forward not back and enjoy what’s on offer.......

5 hours ago, RBAGE said:

Mostly from comment on this website from people who know considerably more about track standards than I do.

I assume you don't understand my comment about "messing around". I actually meant checking stock back-to-back dimensions and taking action to reduce the variation experience on product from RTR manufacturers. Something which might be best practise for standard 00 gauge but which is more critical for 16.2mm and reduced flangeways.

My point was, that the vast majority of railway modellers don't do this because the standard 00 gauge will accommodate most of this variation. What is more important, the majority of modellers don't expect to have to undertake checks or make adjustments.

 

If we followed that principle we’d be talking about a whole new range of turnouts based on Brio standards.....

You only have to read the various calls for help on RMweb with derailments and you quickly realise that 99% of cases are always poorly laid track or wheels where the back to backs are incorrect. 
 

The problem is rarely, if ever, poorly made RTR turnouts, but more often than not a rogue set of wheels which do occasionally slip through. Of course you only check any wheels where there appears to be an issue and there is no need to do anything with 99% of stock. To suggest you have to undertake more checks to run on 00-SF is a fallacy.

I’m sorry but the Holy Grail you refer to for the bulk of modellers is never going to happen if we wish to improve appearance and running quality.

I repeat, I probably have over 100 loco’s from various manufacturers and I suspect 300-400 items of stock. They are all modern items and none are more than 20 years old, yet I cannot recall having to reset poorly set wheels or if I have, certainly no more than I would have done with 00.

This is one of the downsides of forums and social media. An uniformed comment is made which is then circulated as gospel and then becomes folklore.

41 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

 

00-SF will never be a popular gauge because the vast majority of 00 modellers do not want to start messing around with their stock.

Not sure I understand your comment on 00-SF......

All the turnouts on Eastwood Town are 00-SF and I can’t recall ‘messing around’ with any of my stock. I run Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, many kit built loco’s with Romford/Markit wheels and finally several loco’s with Ultrascale wheels. All if these run smoothly through 00-SF, so I cannot understand what you mean.

Just curious where it’s come from........

No disagreement from me Martin....

I had my commercial hat on and as the bulk of the sales are going to be to those modellers currently using Peco or similar products, I was always referring to 00. 
 

Those building in 00-SF or EM should be aware of the requirement for set and there it should be included in the instructions for those unfamiliar with the process.

Rest easy Mike, nothing will change beyond what we talked about a month or so ago. Reversing the storage roads means removing the old access across the stairwell, so that’s two tracks removed and moving the shed around then frees up the whole back straight section and allows me to accomplish a view of main lines on an embankment that will drop down to a river/canal if similar.

All of that has been pushed to one side to allow running sessions. To fit all the new crossovers etc will mean dismantling and moving the boards into the room to work on in comfort.

I guess I have a foot in both camps here. I build my own turnouts and over the years the much welcomed advice from Martin on both prototypical practice and Templot has been invaluable. Equally so I am excited about this new product from Wayne as once C10’s and possibly B7’s are available in 00SF, it may well be I will hang up my soldering iron and transfer across to chaired track as of course, I recognise it looks so much better. Soldered construction is very strong and easy to adjust, but if chaired turnouts are available as kits and all the hard work has been done for me, then I see no reason not to change over to Wayne’s kits in the future.

If I now put on my commercial hat, I assume Wayne has invested considerable personal funds and will be looking for a return on his investment. We can all see the excellence of the product and of course we want it to follow prototypical practice as closely as possible. There’s nothing wrong with that as a goal from the outset, but perhaps commercial reality is more important. Those of us who build our own track fully understand set in turnouts, but I suspect we are alone in that understanding. Of course these are simple estimates and I have no accurate numbers, but I’m guessing that less than 10% of potential customers will know about set, let alone be able to see it in the finished product. 
 

The market for this product will surely be the Peco customer base and new modellers who are looking for a product that works straight from the box. Of course if set can be achieved with no additional costs or production difficulties, then I would include it, but not if it meant moving away from commercial reality. Those of us who understand set, will be pleased and those that don’t won’t care anyway.

To me the worst of both worlds is to supply a product that works, is inexpensive and way better than the competition, but then to add a note regarding set and how it can be accomplished, would be a huge mistake. As a modeller who buys track off the shelf, it would introduce a doubt regarding the product. If it was that essential then why wasn’t it included by the manufacturer or does this mean I may have a problem with these turnouts as it hasn’t been included.

I guess the bottom line for me is if set can be included without any financial penalties or production difficulties, then include it, but Wayne should not lose the opportunity to secure a huge market share by trying to make a product without compromise, particularly where the other 90% of the market are blissfully unaware and just want a better product than anything currently available.

In this day and age of Social Media, word of mouth is so important. Show the market a great product, gain positive acceptance over the competition and the only problem you will have is fulfilling the demand.

I really wish you well Wayne and just for clarity, I’m not against including set, but we all know compromises often have to be made. If you can build turnouts that work every time and are better than anything the market has to offer, then you deserve every success that is coming to you.

If I were you, David, I would lash up two shelves 400mm apart and then get a feel for reaching in 3’ plus. You are doing the right thing considering lift out sections, but they require careful planning and of course everything has to be removed before you can lift out and replace a section of board and still retain track alignment.

I hope this doesn’t come across as negative, but I know from experience that I’ve convinced myself I can’t see a problem when others have raised concerns about hidden tracks, multi levels and gradients. All of those can be done but just require additional thought and care or after weeks of work you will come to a major problem requiring you start again. Been there and read the book....

The best piece of planning I have ever seen for a multi level layout is here, so well worthwhile spending an hour reading how someone else has dealt with the issues.....First rate....

I’m 6’3” tall and would be concerned about reaching certain sections of the storage area, particularly having to reach over trains in the nearer roads. You don’t say what the separation is between the two levels, but that would only make life even more difficult. Imagine having to reach in between the two levels and trying to replace a turnout that has failed at the back of the storage area. Is there access to both sides or are the boards butted up against the walls of the room?
 

Just saying as I’ve tried similar things before and they always look great on paper, but are far harder to deal with once they become reality.  It is a large area with numerous tracks, so you really need to think carefully before outplaying a considerable amount of cash. 

I did correct the £230 price once I had looked up the DJH website. At current pricing the kit is £143 plus £82 for the motor/gearbox and £54 for the Markits/Romford wheels, all of which takes it to £280. Of course I bought mine several years ago was it was considerably cheaper. As I said Hattons mailed me offering J50’s a few weeks back at £69 and it’s still at that price, albeit an early crest version. I was told you could buy different motors, gearboxes and wheels from other sources and save some cash, but I doubt it would have made a huge difference.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/164411/hornby_r3407_class_j50_0_6_0t_68959_in_br_black_with_early_emblem/stockdetail.aspx

I do have a late crest Hornby one and it runs smoothly and pulled nearly 50 wagons without a problem from a standing start.

Based on that pricing differential I did ask the question re kits, but of course everyone who enjoys building them said it’s much more than just opening a box and you always have the pleasure of knowing ‘I built that’.

Thanks Tony, I’m pleased that you offered to complete this kit and very happy to see the nearly finished article. I did look at the current pricing when talking about J50’s a few weeks ago. From memory the kit plus wheels, motor and gearbox came out somewhere around £280. At the same time I could buy another J50 from Hattons for £69.....

Of course when I bought the kit, the Hornby model wasn’t available, so there really wasn’t an alternative other than a Lima body on a Bachmann pannier chassis.

Can’t wait to see the finished and painted article......

That’s good news, Bill. Diesel loco’s always perform so much better. I see you’re also an ECoS convert.......

47 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Carrying on with the DJH J50, which Gordon S so kindly donated................

 

 

The buffer beams are now in their rightful places (slightly inboard of the footplate, front and rear). 

 

I've also started fitting handrails and other details. Without being 'critical' of a first-time kit-builder's work, this illustrates a procedure which is best to follow; that is, do all soldering from the inside where one can, before the likes of the smokebox door and the tank tops go on. I've soldered the front, middle, smokebox and smokebox door handrails, as well as the smokebox lamp bracket from the outside out of necessity, and the tank-front steps. The cabside handrails have been soldered on from the inside - much easier. 

 

It's a shame you gave up with this Gordon; you were almost there.

 

It'll be finished before long...................

 

 

Thanks Tony, that all makes so much sense, but as we've commented before, instructions are often written by someone who may not be an experienced kit builder or could be set in their ways. I have my own way of building turnouts which seems to be out of line with recognised methods, but it works very well for me, which only goes to show there are many ways to achieve an end product and if it works for you, stick with it.

I shall really look forward to seeing the finished article as I know you will make a super job of it and hopefully it will raise a few bob for a good cause.

Thanks Bucoops. I've not put my hands on the other loco, but managed to find a pic from 2005.

According to my ABC, 61954 is another K3/2. I feel a spot the difference competition coming on as the short kit kit label may suggest you can build another K3, but not necessarily another K3/2. Perhaps it's just worded ambiguously.....

I've been trying to catalogue my railway stock for my wife, just in case things don't go to plan in the next few months. Of course I'm upbeat about my forthcoming surgery, but the last thing I want to do is leave her a massive problem and not knowing where to start. Apologies if this is slightly depressing, but sadly it's something we all have to face up to sooner than later.....

All the RTR stock is fairly easy to catalogue, but I felt more was needed for kit built stock.

Way back in 2005/6, I had a good job and commissioned Graham Varley to build some kits for me. Trying to provide descriptions of these is a bit of a task, but I'm getting there.

This is one of what I thought were a pair of K3/2's which still run beautifully some 16 years later.

I've spent the last hour or so ploughing through receipts etc to find a bit more info and now know from the receipt it was two kits plus two motors, 2 gearboxes, sets of nickel silver wheels and buffer sets. The receipt didn't mention who's kits they were, but I found two boxes in the loft. They are South Eastern Finecast, but this note on one of the boxes surprised me.

Not seen this before, so was a little surprised. I'm now going to try and find the second loco and work out what class it is as I now doubt it will be a K3/2 if the box note is correct.

Anyone come across this principle before or was it just South Eastern Finecast?

Just realised you have the same topic in two places. Thought I’d imagined replying earlier as my post had disappeared.........

One of the downsides of posting the same topic in more than one area.

Not sure about the main aspect of your post, but the software doesn’t dump everything. If you lose what you have typed, then going back to the empty reply box and just touching the screen in the box area restores everything before it crashed.

22 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Maths, maybe. In 4mm scale it's quite easy to measure a prototype in feet and inches then draw the model in metric (1mm represents three inches).

I never realised that before. Very useful....

Edit: Now I feel like a total numpty as it’s 4mm to the foot, so of course 1mm equals 3”...........

Just never heard it expressed in those terms.......and I’ve only been modelling in 00 for something like 60 years.....

I've never learned to cook, as a loving mother and wife who loves cooking have always looked after me. One year I thought I'd make a Christmas Cake just as a challenge. As an engineer, I thought I'd just read the recipe and job done.

First step was to "grease and line a 10" cake tin". With what? I guessed whatever substance was required would be found in the kitchen and not the garage, but that was the first of numerous questions from someone who had never had to cook.

Of course many more questions followed and I got there, but I soon realised instructions always assume you have some experience and understand the basics. Clearly kit building is no different.

They probably read this thread....

Those that put in high bids and then refuse to pay make a mockery of eBay. Of course the simple thing would be just to ban them, but then they’d just open another account....