Graham R

Sounds frustrating indeed ... Is it possible that fixing the housing to the frames distorts the housing slightly? Can you try an alternative fixing?

Maybe you need to back the bit out and clear the swarf out of the flutes? I would not claim to be an expert on drilling and tapping Tufnol but I did discover that using spit as a lubricant when hand-drilling very fine holes (0.3mm if I remember correctly, in a jig for Electra couplings) did not work well. The moisture caused the material or the swarf in the hole to expand slightly, the drill bit started to bind, and then snapped off. Drilling dry worked much better. But that may be less of an issue for larger holes. regards Graham

It sounds like your online research has given you all you need! But if you're interested, there are 1921 plans and elevations of the viaduct in the National Records of Scotland, catalogue entry here. NRS will send you a digital copy for £15 (a minimum payment "search fee" which, if successful, gets you copies at £2.50 a plan) plus £6 or so for a memory stick. Or something like that .... the exact teerms are on their website. If you explain you are in NZ, they may be willing to e-mail what you want rather than insisting on transfer by memory stick although they will probably insist on charging you (the search fees are laid down by statute so they cannot waive them; the stick fee however is not). I have seen one of these drawings (a friend has a copy) and can pass on a specific enquiry to him if you want to check something. The NRS is a great resource once you learn their ways, and i think it's reasonable to get full copies direct from them if required. Hope that's useful and good luck with the model. Graham

T'internet suggests there are details of the ScR TV train in the NBR Study Group Journal (Issue 70, March 1998, p34 for 4 pages) and on BackTrack January, April and June 1995 (in readers' letters), if anyone cares to chase these references up.

I thought I remembered an article on the ScR TV train in a contemporary Trains Illustrated but when I looked through the issues I happen to have from 1957 to 1959 I couldn't find it. Am I imagining that or does anyone else recall?

"The number of vehicles is governed by the figures given by the commercial department" so you have quite a lot of scope! If you trace the vehicles can you update the thread? It would be interesting to know the details. I'll look forward to your 17" TVs in 2mm scale ... the screen diagonal is 2.83 mm ...

This 1957 circular (sent to station masters in Dundee and Burntisland district) gives the set makeup: it includes 13429. I like the reference to "passenger compartments for the use of artistes". Hope that helps, regards Graham

Thanks Jim and pH. I have that book somewhere, I must dig it out! (and pay more attention to the pictures ...) Graham

I was interested to see this photograph of a class 28 (D5713) at Stirling with an ex-LMS coach in maroon livery, so presumably in the 1960s. The train appears to be in the Stirling & Dunfermline lines Up platform so could have been on a working from Dunfermline, or from the Perth direction (or of course starting from Stirling). I don't recall seeing a photo of a Class 28 north of Glasgow previously (although apparently they worked to Gourock, Wemyss Bay and on the Cathcart Circle). Was it common to send them north of Glasgow? regards Graham

Hi Tom, It looks very impressive, and tempting at that price. I know very little about 3D printers, but I read a comment (here) that DLP printers are "messy and smelly to use - be prepared for odors which are worse that those from ABS in FDM printing". Is that correct in your view? Is it feasible to introduce one of these things into the average household without provoking outrage from the rest of the family, or is it strictly for the man-cave? regards Graham Roberts

Hi David, Yes I wish I'd remembered about that site before replying, it gives a much clearer explanation! and makes it clear that both the signalmen at the ends of the section have to co-operate to release the token from the intermediate machine, which I had not really understood. I agree, Fort William has a lot of potential. Graham

Gary, Dundee Museums did a wee pamphlet in the 1970s, "Steam trains to Dundee 1831-1863" which gives some basic info on the D&N. The Railway Magazine did an article in, I think, 1951 which I have somewhere, or it is fairly easy to track down on eBay. Chapter 12 of "Dundee's Iron Horses - the story of a lost industry" (G M Steel, 1974) has 10 pages on the D&N. C. T Goode's "The Railways of Strathmore" (self published I think, 1988) is a useful short history which includes a description by George Robin of a trip over the D&N in 1948. Irwell Press did a softback with lots of photos, "An Illustrated History of Tayside's Railways, Dundee and Perth" (1997) which has a chapter on the D&N. As 'Caledonian' mentioned above, Niall Ferguson's book is a very complete history and well worth getting hold of. Since you are in Longniddry, one handy way to find all these references is to join the SRPS (or perhaps you are already a member) and use their library - they have a vast collection of Scottish railway books and articles, which members can borrow. You are probably aware that you can still see the original D&N train shed at Newtyle - possible from the comfort of your armchair by using Google StreetView - look for the junction of Commercial Street and Knox Close. But it's better to go there in person, since you can then pass by Pirie's the butchers in nearby Church Street, and buy their excellent steak pies . Hope that helps Graham

The NLS map site now has a 1963 survey, 1:1250 map available - a big improvement on the 1901 survey, 1:2500 which was all thy had a couple of years ago! Here and here. Useful to see how the station, goods yard, various sidings and Mallaig Junction were laid out. Measuring from these, the distance between the toe of the yard loop and the signalbox is 450 feet, and Robert's diagram gives the signalbox to bracket signal distance as 62 yards, so that is about 630 feet ... if a box van is about 20 feet over buffers, that's less than 30 wagons after allowance is made for a brake van and the loco. However, most of the loops on the WHR held less than 35 wagons and one or two were down to the mid-twenties (the 1960 BR(Sc) sectional appendix gives the loop lengths). So I am not sure there would be longer freights leaving Fort William unless there was no other traffic (I think there was the "Ghost" service overnight?) or unless all other trains were shorter and were held for the freight to run straight through.

Oh and I should add I am not any kind of expert on the West Highland or on Fort William - there are several RMWebbers who know it much better or who worked on the line - so I hope they'll not hesitate to correct or expand my ramblings!

Hi David, That is interesting. I think the key sentence regarding departing freights is "They drew out along the neck, reversed cautiously down to the town box to collect the essential tablet and departed on the main." In other words they did not use the intermediate token instrument or the crossover at the east end of the yard- they drew out of the yard into the headshunt, reversed back through the yard loop and points 15 after getting signal 16, got a token for Mallaig Junction and left on the main line. Presumably that was simpler than faffing around with the intermediate token machine, or maybe the machine was simply not always reliable and after a few experiences of long delays calling out the lineman to reset the machine, all concerned agreed to quietly ignore the S&T's fancy intermediate token machine and just do things the way that always worked. [Edit - or maybe they only used it when all three lines at the station were occupied, preventing a propelling movement as far as the box by a freight, as you say above]. Regarding the explanation I gave, I should have made it clearer that key, key token, and token all mean the same thing in this context (a large metal key which fits only in the key token machines it is designed for, so it cannot be confused with tokens from adjacent block sections; the key also unlocks ground frames whose lock it fits). The reason for the profusion of ground frames was the distance from the signalbox of the points they controlled (there were various distances depending on the period and whether a facing point for passenger traffic was controlled; generalising somewhat, anything more than 350 yards could not be directly controlled from the signalbox). In the days before reliable electrical releases or motor points, where traffic did not justify the staffing and equipment costs of an extra signalbox, control was most easily arranged using ground frames with a physical key release. The signalman kept the key, issuing it when required; there were varying levels of safety interlocks to ensure other trains did not interfere with a train using a ground frame. On single lines, the section token could conveniently act as a ground frame key as well). Even when technology improved, the cost of upgrading arrangements was not always justified; it often had to wait for some kind of area safety initiative with a limited budget which stretched out over the years to suit the manpower available, and would not be done at all unless the existing arrangement delayed traffic, increased costs, or was less safe, rather than just being inconvenient. regards Graham

Hi Pacific, Yes, the station ground frame had a dual control (a "slot") on the Home signals 19-21, so that the stationmaster or man in charge could ensure the platform lines were clear (or that standing vehicles had tail lamps placed) and that he was ready to receive a train into a platform. The ground frame originally had 5 levers: 2 controlled the crossover in the dock lines (platforms 2 and 3), 3 to 5 were the "slots" on Homes 19-21, and 1 was the "asking lever" to ask the signalman to release the ground frame using lever 7. The dock crossover was proposed for removal in 1955, and the asking lever and signalbox release lever were removed at that point. Robert's diagram dates from 1955. Here are the "local instructions" for Fort William from sectional appendices for the LNER and BR period. They provide some answers to your questions. My understanding is that the intermediate key token arrangement allowed a driver to obtain a token from the Fort William signalman, proceed to the yard, then place the token in the intermediate instrument at the shed ground frame while he and/or the yard pilot completed shunting and brake tests. With the key token locked in the intermediate instrument, the Fort William and Mallaig Junction signalmen could continue to work other traffic by co-operating to release tokens at one end or the other as usual. As long as the token was locked in the intermediate instrument, it was not available to unlock the ground frame, so the train was "locked in". When the driver was ready to take his train out of the goods yard, he called the signalman and requested release of his token (by plunging at the same time as the Fort William signalman); he could then withdraw the token and the fireman would use it to unlock the ground frame, reverse the crossover points for the main line, clear the disc signal, wait until the driver had moved the train to the main line, restore the disc and crossover, remove the key from the frame, and finally rejoin the train giving or showing the key to the driver, then the train would proceed to Mallaig Junction. The crossover could thus not be left set for the yard because the key could not be removed from the ground frame unless all levers were normal, and the driver would not move his train without having the token (and if it was forgotten, there would be red faces when they arrived at Mallaig Junction and no further tokens could be obtained until the forgotten key was retrieved). Others with better knowledge will hopefully correct any misconceptions in that explanation. I'd be interested to know if drivers really reversed back to Fort William box to get a token, or if they told their fireman to walk back and fetch it on foot when they were getting ready to leave. Maybe that would depend on the weather and season ... regards Graham

Jim, I can see we are going to have to frisk you for dental instruments before we let you in to the next Forth and Clyde area group meeting ... On the other hand, if Tufnol has similar qualities to ivory, maybe you could carve us all up sets of dentures from "Carp" brand SRBP ... Graham

If I recall correctly, the N(ational)RM was offered 5930 "Mount Shengena" when it was withdrawn from tourist excursion use in the 1990s; 5918 "Mount Gelai" was to be retained by the N(airobi)RM. The problem was the cost of shipping it from Mombasa (in fact the weight is 185 tons empty, 254 in working order): no-one would put up the money. 5930's boiler was actually in better condition, but unfortunately someone moved it dead without opening the cylinder cocks around 2000 and blew the end off a cylinder. The Nairobi museum only displays 5930 and 2401; the other two, 5918 and 2409, are stored elsewhere for safety, but are currently both unserviceable due to careless use and theft of nonferrous parts respectively. Thank you. It baffles me how many people seem to think that, because most of the population lives in England, all (rather than most) of the preserved locomotives should be there too. No 9 put in years of service in east Scotland, both before preservation and, more significantly in my view, afterwards. For two decades from the mid 1960s to mid 80s it was kept running by a local support team with very basic facilities. For non-enthusiasts in Scotland in the 1970s, all steam locomotives were A4s with chime whistles, because they never saw or heard anything else. That is an arguable point, but don't forget there is a larger context. I spent the last week walking the Fife Coastal Path with friends. I hardly knew of it before, but I enjoyed it immensely - pristine fishing villages, stunning sandy beaches, fascinating industrial history, and peaceful beyond description. The path passes about a mile from the museum site. If you don't fancy walking, Elie (the nearest town, much favoured for holiday homes by the well-heeled citizens of Edinburgh) is a couple of hours from Edinburgh by bus, or an hour by car. If you like golf (I don't, but I gather many do) you are spoilt for choice. Whatever else some earlier contributors think about the proposed museum, it is neither remote, nor in a crazy location, nor an isolated attraction which would not attract visitors. John Cameron must have been regarded as crazy to spend good money on buying an old steam loco as a farmer in his twenties by his peer group and his own family. He risked his capital and credibility and triumphed. I have never met the man but am tremendously grateful to him for creating so many personal memories. I hope his project succeeds.

A few shots from today's 2mmSA AGM , which the North East Area Group hosted with their usual aplomb. First some layout shots. Anthony Yeates' Corrieshalloch: Andrew Gibson's Swinton: Martin Stewart's Ketton Cement: John Aldrick's Ivybridge: Rod McCall's Winston (presented as a work in progress, hence the Metcalfe kits which are stand-ins for the eventual scratchbuilt models, but located prototypically): Then some of the competition entries: Andy Glover's Stoneswood Mill, his first attempt at scratchbuilding, from styrene sheet (this shot unfortunately does not capture the tall chimney, complete with strengthening bands and lightning conductor): Jim Watt's Kirkallanmuir Weighs signalbox and Dunblane station footbridge: An LMS station based on Wirksworth. I'm sorry not to have recorded the builder's name: Anthony Yeates' HR wagons: the Jones brake van and diagram 47 open carriage truck from his own etches, the diagram 4 covered van from his own etched chassis and a scratchbuilt body: Alisdair Campbell's HR wagons: Tim Watson's LNER P2 "Mons Meg" - its build was chronicled on RMWeb and in MRJ: Nick Mitchell's L&Y Radial Tank: Nigel Hunt's finescaling of a Farish Fairburn tank: apologies, I did not notice the derailed pony truck: There was also a finescaled Dapol Britannia: more apologies, I did not record who entered it and somehow I missed photo'ing it. John Aldrick's GWR 70' South Wales coaches, from Masterclass etches: and finally, some non-competition models which were on display: Jim Watt's pre-group wagons, available under his "Buchanan Kits" label: and Nick Mitchell's 9F, L&Y Coal Tank, and Princess Coronation (which I think are all from Nigel Hunt etches): The competition winners, as far as I could scribble them down, were: Malcolm Stone award: Andy Glover for Stoneswood Mill Steve Sykes award: Anthony Yeates for three HR wagons Groves Trophy: Tim Watson for Mons Meg Neil Ballantine Quaich: Nigel Hunt for his Farish Fairburn tank conversion Dreadnought Trophy: John Aldrick for his South Wales coaches John Barker Trophy: Alisdair Campbell for a rake of pre-grouping wagons Willis Cup: Laurie Adams for his track chair system Chairman's Trophy: Nick Mitchell for his Radial Tank Geoff Jones Layout trophy: Nigel Ashton for Llangerisech Geoff Balfour Memorial award: Nick Mitchell for his "2mmFS in the age of Austerity" article in MRJ Mike Bryant Cup: Jim Watt for long service as Data Officer Members' Choice: Andy Glover for Stoneswood Mill Thanks to the organisers, competitors, exhibitors, David Short with the Central Shop, "the staff" (ask Mick Simpson), and finally the committee for an excellent day out. Regards Graham (Multiple edits to correct spelling!)

Aha! No glueing gears to muffs! And so no stringy threads of Araldite on the teeth and no gnashing of (human) teeth or wielding of scrapers to remove said glue traces! A great light dawns ... Thanks for these videos, they are extremely helpful. Graham

I have a 1975 trip notice which refers to class 06 and 08 shunters in several Scottish Region locations being "immobilised" between shifts or over weekends. In most cases this was in yards (Craigentinny, Perth, Markinch) but in one case (Dundee Harbour) it would have been publicly accessible. Presumably in that final case at least the shunter would have been shut down, although like others I only ever remember them idling, unless tucked away somewhere at the back of a depot. How was (is) a shunter immobilised ? Was there a key or was the control handle removed ? (or both?)

You can do both Jim ... area meeting for the faithful on Saturday, Wells show on Sunday. You retired lads have all that free time to fill up :-; Graham

Mmmm I'm not sure about that line of reasoning ... if the previous stop signal was clear for the route, the driver is entitled to proceed to the next stop signal regardless of whatever points or crossings might be in his path; the interlocking should prove that the route is "clear through". Since the notice specifies "passenger trains" only, it seems more likely it was simply to avoid passengers being exposed to loco exhausts in the tunnel in the event of being held at the next signal. The Youtube link Tim posted showing the signal working states it's an Up Goods signal on Holloway bank, so I don't think it's a model of precisely the same signal. In any case I don't think CF sets out to be a 100% scale replica of the scene. Either way, it is a really nice model. Even the bell-cranks are modelled ... does that indicate that all the dolls work as well ... Graham

It is interesting that even in 1971 with multiple-aspect signalling, a similar notice was provided on the Up Relief approaching Gasworks tunnel: "No passenger train to pass this board unless double-yellow or green aspect displayed". See signal 83/84 on this diagram.

Glad you’re all paying attention at the back there! Apologies for the fake news, my reporter’s notebook has been playing up lately, probably damaged by the severe compression applied in the Edinburgh-Perth 0933 train yesterday (3 coaches for the 3 1/2 hour trip to Inverness, with many passengers standing from the start and tourists finding nowhere to put their luggage). There is no connection with the small refreshment I had taken with my evening porridge. Regards Lunchtime O’Booze