Daddyman

Truce, I think. No point prolonging this. We'll never agree. I was simply trying to counterbalance the vocal minority on here (but I maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's not a minority) who not only send out the message that mediocre or reheated 1980s models are acceptable, but also bizarrely seem violently opposed to decent new models. But better for all concerned not to waste any more finger-ends on this.

Well, it was my tiring of posts like yours and the message they send to manufacturers ("we'll eaccept mediocrity") that spurred me into posting in the first place. However, I had the manners not to pass judgement on your posts (and a couple of others agreed with my point just as a few agreed with yours, and one even found mine amusing); sadly, you seem unable to extend the same courtesy,

Great idea! Hornby could bring back their Sir Dinadan: it had S15-size wheels and I'm sure given the support for the Bachmann B1 it'd find a market! Think about it - the cabsides are nice and thick, the tender's inaccurate and has no coal space, and anyone who's offended by scale handrails would have no problem - they're moulded! Plus, the wheels are metal! By the way, it seems to have passed shop-closing time on the 5th of December.

When I saw the posting from 08:47 this morning I hoped it was somebody saying theirs had arrived .... but no! So that's the 5th come if not gone and my hat more or less safe from being consumed... only a few more hours and it can stop trembling

I don't even think that the Bachmann model has an advantage in the wheels/valve gear area. Far from it. The valve gear has that silly screw in the middle of the crank, plus usually a screw on the crosshead. Regarding the wheels, the tyres are too shallow, which makes them look totally unconvincing, and the tyres have a weird curved profile on their surface, as if they've been flooded with too much paint. This means that while with a Hornby model only the bogie wheels need changing and the driving wheels painting, with a Bachmann model by contrast (LNER at least) the driving wheels have to be changed too - thus negating the price advantage. Not that there is much of a price advantage anyway - there's no need to pay more than £92 for a Hornby B1. To plagiarise a rather witty post from the Bachmann camp above, the Bachmann model looks like a Hornby one ... but with rubbish everything.

You'd have to be the judge of that ...

If the suggestion is that there is nothing to choose between the old Bachmann body and the new Hornby one, that's tantamount to saying that the last 20 years of developments in modelling might as well not have happened. The Bachmann body is not all that good. They only cater for one smokebox door (which always looked odd and not recognisably based on any of the prototypes) and one type of tender side. But more than that the cab has some odd characteristics: there's that weird gash in the roof, and the cabside windows seem too close to the roof. There's also the question of the thickness of plastic edges on such an old model on e.g. cab sidesheets, and even if Bachmann has reduced the size of its handrail knobs (I hadn't noticed), the ones on the A2 (assuming they are the 'finer' variety) are certainly nowhere near as fine as the ones Hornby has been using for years. There's also of course the pigs-might-fly chance that Hornby have included the Cowlairs fillets under the foorplate... I agree on the wheels. Hornby's plastic plug-ins with those dreadful 1980s metal rims are dire, but they're easily painted out (but also easily scuffed!). All in all then Hornby get my money for the finer and more characterful body - much as I hate giving them money after the CEO's recent comments.

Am I right in thinking that we've only seen one fully dressed version of the three they are to produce? Isn't that a bad sign? Or is this normal? I might be mistaken but surely they would have finished samples of all three versions to show around if they were so close to production?

Yes, Brian, we live in hope - and I'll get my hat ready to eat in case I'm wrong and Cheltenham/Hattons are right!

Sorry to rain on people's parade, though it's probably better than building up their hopes falsely, but there's no mention of the B1 in Hornby's 'due in the next 30 days' page, and neither Cheltenham nor Hattons believe in their 5th December rumour enough to put it up on their websites. I'd say 'as you were, gents' and expect it in the new year.

Have you tried satin varnish for fixing nameplates, Coldgunner? It dries invisible and gives you more time to move the plate around than glue.

That's right, yes. File off the lap joint and fabricate the beading with 0.5mm plastic rod (to represent one-and-a-half inches on the real thing). It was NBL who fitted the flush-sided tenders, and they also built (some of?) the K1s. Maybe someone else can confirm but I have a feeling there was a difference in the shape of the frames at the rear, but admit that this feeling might be totally unfounded ... Hopefully if Hornby do the flush-sided tender there's going to be a lot more of their B1 useable on a K1 conversion.

Although it came up on page 1 or page 2 here that many B1s had flush-sided tenders, especially the higher numbered Scottish ones, I haven't seen any mention of whether Hornby are catering for this. I'm pretty sure that 61243 had a flush-sided tender. Can anyone confirm these two points? Apart from allowing the modelling of Scottish B1s, this type of tender would be helpful for those of us who've despaired of ever getting an RTR K1. Another point, I'm guessing they're not doing the Scottish 'fillets' added under the angles in the footplate to strengthen latter? 61243 certainly had them.

All the bauxite vans I saw in Oxford (7 in total) had plain axle box covers, yet bear the same number as the photo with rollers on the last page. Must be as the last poster surmises - a mix up. More worrying is that both shops in Oxford have been told by Hornby (or at least the Hornby list) to sell them at £18! At one shop (a toy shop) I pointed out that Hornby's website listed the RRP as £13.99, but they wouldn't be moved so I took my money elsewhere (a model shop), told them the same and they promptly rang Hornby and got confirmation that the RRP was £13.99 and charged me that. The moral of the story: insist!

Thanks to everyone for clarification there. Glad that Paul B's wagon site is on its way back too after fotopic collapse. Fair to say that the Hornby EWS model is a pretty rare type? The coming Bachmann one more common in my experience. However, I don't think Bachmann 'nailed' the chassis on the VDA (spring supports underfed, poor axlebox covers); I abandoned the one OTA conversion I attempted for these reasons. Not hopeful for their OTA....

Can anyone clarify what type these wagons are? In the model photos that people have posted it's not possible to see what type of underframe the models have. Are these VDA conversions or OCA? I missed the original announcement so not sure. I'm sure Hornby have done their research but in 3 or 4 years of photographing OTAs at Crianlarich I never saw the combination of details that they've modelled (new-style red stanchions with angular ends). I've never seen the modern red stanchions except on a VDA conversion (identifiable by the curved top of the old van end, as in the prototype photos posted in this thread) - but I'm not saying this is wrong, I'm just surprised to see it that's all. It certainly doesn't seem to be a common type, at least not in Crianlarich... Tom Smith's 'British Railway Air Braked Stock Vol 2' seems to confirm my feeling too: the only wagons with the modern stanchions are the ex-VDAs. Admittedly, the most recent photos in the book are 2002. Quite prepared to admit I'm wrong - just asking for clarification, that's all. Cheers.