The Black Hat

18 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi @50025

 

I threw it out there in a planning meeting this afternoon. I was asked “which version” and I could see a migraine developing. I’ll keep trying 🤣.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

Allow me to help your planning meeting... 

On 02/09/2023 at 22:57, Charnwood said:

Please for the love of God consider the Southern Region. The densest, busiest part of the railway network for the last century, serving the most populous – and richest – part of the country. And yet, the Region is chronically under-represented in model form (and I’m not talking about steam locomotives which were a virtual irrelevancy even before they were finally phased out over 50 years ago but the real working trains faithfully filling London every weekday morning, and emptying it every night– the electric multiple units). Kudos to Hornby for the 4-VEP, which they may eventually get right, and Bachmann for the better 4-CEP/BEP – but these latter units for much of their lives were geographically restricted – you’d rarely catch one in Waterloo for instance. Bachmann’s 2-HAP is superb however. Annnnd… that’s pretty much it (4-TC is good but unpowered and the 2H also good, but it’s a DEMU and where the hell is the 3rd coach???). No chance of replicating typical operations in the 60s-90s with that lot. And we’re not talking small numbers here – I’ve seen people asking for Trans-Pennine DMUs. Total produced? Class 124 – 8 sets. Class 123 – 10 sets. Between them they operated 1960-1987. 27 years. Now take the 4-CIG/BIG (class 421/422). 166 units. 1964-2010. 46 years. 4-SUB? 185 units. 1941-1983. 42 years. I could go on with classes like the 2/4-EPB or even, a little later, like the 508 or its replacement the 455 (137 built, 1983-2023, 40 years of service) but I think the point is made.

 

The most frustrating thing by far is a couple of decades ago you could buy most of the stock in kit form, but now even that option appears to have mostly disappeared into the mists of history. So, please AS, throw the nostalgic modellers of the South a bone – there’s more of us than you think and I think with some decent options for once, there would be a bit of an avalanche. And the thing about MU operation…1 is never enough.

 

Disclaimer: all figures from Wiki and I reserve the right to be wrong about pretty much any of the above 😊. Also worth noting I like the trans-pennine units (and I’d really like them if they ever travelled onto 3rd rail territory!)  – they just served as a useful comparison.

 

Rob

Utter rubbish.... 

Has anyone had it where the engine sound cuts out from when the sound is turned on and the engine fires up. My class 37409 cuts out on sound as soon as engine sound is about to turn over and take power. I need to turn engine off by stopping power to track and restart it by moving first. After a while the engine then is fine. Any reason for this? Have others found similar problems?

4 hours ago, woodenhead said:

@The Black Hat If the DFT hand them back to the ROSCO it costs them nothing more, if they retain them then there is a lease to pay.  They would only keep them if they had no option, if they have a get out clause then they've activated it.

 

The DFT don't own the Mk5s, so giving them back makes the problem of re-using them the ROSCO's.

 

At the moment the focus of the DFT is to spend less - reducing staffing, altering maintenance regimes and getting rid of any stock that isn't fully utilised.  A Mk5 set isn't just a lease of stock it is also the cost of the class 68, if the DFT has enough stock for the services it wants to run then why toss in a complicated loco set when it has units aplenty which are more flexible and cause less headaches.

No the DFT dont own the Mk. 5 but they will be funding future franchises and if that means that they have to fund the hire leasing charges of buying in new stock when there is stock already built and available at a lower rate because its seemed the stock is not wanted to lease price lowers, then DFT will be likely to be going for it and the engine if its still cheaper than extra new stock. Question is can you then find and operation and a franchise to specify them for - which the DFT will do - so that the operators know what it is they are using and where when pitching for the franchise. 
 

7 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Cross Country are probably due to refresh traction, most likely with IEP but if the DFT want to avoid spend then ex EMT 222s, why through in another complicated solution.  Northern are beginning a procurement for new trains to replace the aging ex BR units, they won't want any loco haul non standard trains I would imagine.  But above all, the DFT have found an out for the Mk5s, why would they simply put them onto another TOC and leave themselves with the issue of making them good. 

Because the DFT is following the lead of the Treasury. There is new stock that can be made to work, which is a cost saving rather than buying in new stock and having this sat empty. How many times has DaFT specified traction that was unsuitable - 180s from FGW to MML, mixing the EMU electric fleets, getting behind the stupid 230 idea, dumping HST from XC only to bring them back... 

If there is new stock that can be available and that can improve an area then I expect they will find a role for this fleet and then sell it as an improvement to service and investment, when instead they are keeping the stuff they have already paid for. Cue the stuff being sent to marginal seats, like the South West and being a PR spin before an election... 

Anyway, at least this means its likely they will find a home and then Accurascale can make more models. Failing that they can always make what-ifs after all and showcase the DFT what they could have...  

13 minutes ago, E100 said:

We should probably get a new thread started for this but for now my thoughts are:

1. To my mind they would be superb stock for the West Highland Line. There's enough sets to displace the class 156's. Plenty of room but not too long. Adds some first class that would be well used. Already run on a mk5 route and Scotrail have form with the class 68's from fife circle days. good amount of luggage space etc.
2. I think Scotrail could also be interested from the perspective of any routes with partial electrification and a class 93/99 haulage.
3. Great option for TfW to remove the mk4's depending on how wedded they are to dining option. Again it would retain the first class and increase capacity with a 'useable' DVT. The issues with training though are significant for TfW but I wouldn't be surprised. Doubly so if the ROSCO offer them at a reduced price.

I think to my mind these are most likely as they are outside of the DfT and I can't think of a better place in England for the Mk5's to be than on the TPE route for which they designed - shocking I know! I'd be surprised to see these exported or scrapped.

 

PS. A total curveball is to use a Stadler power pack type design and couple two of these together APT style with a mk5 set either side 🤣

Cant see the WHL being used as you cant split for the Oban / Fort William portion to then go on same train. Also there isnt enough sets to replace the HST duties so cant see that being an option. I think TfW are liking the class 67/Mk.4 combo and why spend more on stock when your plan is coming to fruition. 

I can see a few lines in England being good for them. FGW for services in the south west, as done by the current HST GTi fleet or for Liverpool - Norwich services, Northern's York to Blackpool, Cross Country for Nottingham to Gloucester/Birmingham to Cambridge and other 170 routes... 

Just will people put in the time and effort to fix them. I can't help think that a franchise with FOUR sets of traction that TPE had wasnt helpful and that something had to give. So more IEP and retain 185 so that it goes down to 3. That means though that Mk. 5 should be fix-able if you now have the time and scope to investigate properly and get them working free of the need to learn or fix another 3 fleets as well. 

19 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

Hi everyone,

 

Our next newly tooled model in OO/4mm will be announced this coming Friday, Sept 1st. Place your bets!

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

This is the Age of the Train.... HST...

Also ran - Voyager/Meridian, Class 185

On 28/08/2023 at 08:55, adb968008 said:

 

The outcome of the real thing affects interest in the model.

 

or put differently, why keep the thread open at all, the model has been and gone, and by the looks of it so are the real things.

 

I find it harmless, and invigorates interest in the model.

 

As for the future of the mk5’s, these kind of things tend to be shunted off to the extremeties *, my guess is an OA operator, which means several liveries and more model potential, perhaps coupled to class 93’s ?

 

 

* last example was the class 180’s.
 

 

Yes the educated guessing / speculation is harmless and it does offer up the chance for more what if's even if these are done personally... rather than Accurascale doing some. I would think that there are likely to be four options:

1. Sets are going to be parked up and the ROSCO either will really investigate what is happening with the stock to fault find, fix and then offer reliably into traffic after lots of ECS testing

2. Sets get parked up, left and wait till an operator is interested - before being tweaked and put into traffic and worked on during introduction

3. Sets are exported abroad and become someone elses problem that they then fix to some extent.

4. No one wants them and they are scrapped. 

Given the value they have and that they could be made to work (as the Sleeper stock has shown) I think there is the possibility of them finding a role in the UK. People moan about the class 68 but half the time thats any engine sat there with ETH working when at idle. 67s do the same, sitting in something like notch 4 ticking over, they are just not as loud. People are jumping quickly on the idea of class 93 being the saviour of the problem and while that might be an option, the diesel plant might not be strong enough for fantastic performance away from the wires. 

It could be interesting to see where they go and the next franchises might offer up a plan for them. On some routes they could be really useful but hopefully this does not kill off the idea of locomotive haulage and DVT option in the future as I have a feeling it will... 

19 minutes ago, 97406 said:

 

The number sequence 40101-40199 was taken up by normal disc, split and central headcode 40s. Here’s 40132 for you. 

 

 

Thanks... not an expert on Class 40s if Im honest, but suggest they renumber the Reggy version to a Centre Box number.  The 40/4 idea is because other classes were renumbered when fitted with ETH. 

On 22/08/2023 at 15:37, LaGrange said:

 

There were 199 TOPS Class 40's, as D322 was written off in the mid 60's, hence the pioneer D200 becoming 40122

 

I dont know, KR were desperate to sell off GT3's in fictitious liveries and are developing more of them for some reason, even after the others didnt sell.

 

Perhaps leave the mainstream models to the more established, professional manufacturers and stick with more niche models - oh wait they struggle with those too

I think half the problem is the choice of prototype to turn into something fictitious. The GT3 is already a niche interest and the fictitious liveries of that might cater for an extra few sales of those interested in the possibility of it appearing earlier or later given the guise - or look better with the change. But you still need an interest in GT3 to generate the need for the sale. 

With the class 40 the change is somewhat different - the possibility of a history rewrite means that you can tweak a plausible backstory to create the scene for a class that was more numerous and did last longer. I have done this with class 31 (into BR Blue Large Logo), Regional Railways class 50 and some others that I have sold on (Transrail 25, Arriva class 37). For the versions of the class 40 that KR want to do, I would renumber them away from the numbers they are using - such as a 40/4 to follow the likes of 31 and 37 that had ETH. That way you can have them in that number sequence, done as others would have been and then sit them on shed/in station alongside others and they all then look the part. Numbers such as 40199 stand out way too much and remove the chance of them looking at home amongst other classes that might have lasted longer as there would have been fewer working examples. A Regional Railways 40/1 (eg 40132) and EWS (eg 40408) would look a lot better. 

Whats needed:
 

B16 - all types

A4

Rebuilt Merchant Navy
8F

B16 in all forms would be a new model that was essentially a LNE group machine turning up across the LNE network on the trunk routes. But with DCC and tooling matching the step change in lights and sound being added to steam as standard, it throws open the options. A4, 8F and rebuilt Merchant Navy were all some of the first super detailed range and these have barely been updated to include DCC options as standard making them prime options for choosing them. 

What it could be:

Hall
A4
Black 5

D49

Hall comes on the back of Manor. I can see Accurascale making use of tooling options, much like they did with the class 37/50/55 sharing EE parts. A4 would be a good choice to hit headlines and grab the DCC: Next Generation flagship steam choice territory. Black 5 comes as a workhorse and a step towards stanier and the use of parts. D49 marks the start of Eastern region choices again sharing parts like tender, cab, smokebox. 

What I'd like to see

B16 - all types
J21/25 - NER medium engine and very much needed

A4
57xx/94xx
Castle
 

A bit more of an update showing the boards now level and attached. Also there has been work done on the track layout and this photo here shows where the holes for the point deocder arms are being cut. The area has had the track re-allinged a few times and so the points have moved. One area looks a bit like a swiss cheese, but covering the holes should make it all ok. 

Here though, you can see where the wood bracing for the board for the track meets the wood bracing from the floor of the board. This allows the entire track board to fit into the hole for the wiring and then should mean there is less chance of damage should it ever need to be removed. The chances are that it should not. Point decoders are fitted and these are very reliable - the wiring has been soldered on. Signals are fed from the top so should be no issue in case of needing to be replaced. 

While work on the layout continues - other projects in the background have included changing over 2 spare coaches to become barrier coaches to go with a class 20 that has also been repainted and had the side tanks off a spare DRS body fitted. Another spare coach body has arrived off ebay being a RES mail coach with the shutters so I have started cutting these out to go and fit them to coaches to make 2 WCRC support coaches. 

I will try and post photos of these soon. Hope thats of interest.  

4 hours ago, 60027Merlin said:

 

Re your last sentence;

 

Of course!  the vast majority of us modellers up north model the Southern stuff !

 

(In fact they fly of the shelves like a lead weight).

Only because people make models because of what is collectively available. In terms of making other models if there are is a corresponding model available then it leads on to making others and that in turn ends up satisfying those modelling an area. 

Usually this starts with BR standards and grouping engines being done, then you dial down to what is more popular and then end up going for the pre-grouping that last till the end of steam and then those from 'pre' and finished in grouping. As things become more niche they loose mass appeal and could not be as popular thus generate sales. That then brings the novelty issue into play and thus you might get a few extra engines being done. People then buy and collect them all as then its complete, but as this is a point I have been making for a while, what you then have is market saturation of particular areas and Hornby (with Bachmann) have been in what has been a popular Southern region for a point. Once you add in the slam door stock or 3rd rail that is purposefully built for this market too and theres a clear disparity. Add in then all the novelty plus engines done by competition and you find that the general use / common / engines sit on shelves such as the Hornby WC/BB and they dont sell. Only distruption to supply (by Covid or production delays) caused this to dry up - masking a true problem. So companies like Hornby that need the cashflow dont get it and others dont get the engines needed. 

Ironically, those down south must be liking modelling Scottish areas as the choices for these have been growing and now some are in production. Alternatively you model a different period and theres plenty of modern Scottish layouts doing privatisation or the customary BR West highland line scene. But then... models for these are available and you come full circle so because they are available they match someones interest and thus sell so that scene gets done. 

15 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Thanks Andy.  

 

Very well presented vidw eo I thought although Richard H. clearly is very up on Caerdydd pronunciation - it's Cat-aze not Caffaze but that's a minor thing during what was a really professionally put together show.

 

Overall it was very interesting and at least one item should finally lay to rest all the baloney we've had on here about who designs some new tooling EFE models - it's Kernow/Muz.   All a bit Southern for my taste but that LSWR coaching set does look rather spiffing and there will presumably one day be some motive power to go with all this LSWR stuff?  I can but hope that next time round EFE's interest in the West Country will swing towards the other Railway in that part of the wold - pretty please.

 

The other interesting thing was the number and range of new Graham Farish trainsets.  Almost looks as if Bachmann/GF are prepared to take on the smaller scale trainset market - but they'll surely need to get  the pricing right.

 

The Consett 9Fs look rather good (although not for me of course) and a show of faith in SR EMUs.  Just a bit of emphasis on the S&DJt with buildings as well could be a bit of pitch rolling for some reintroduced/new motive power perhaps?

 

In summary - and I have to say it - nothing in it for me this time round but my son will no doubt make up fpr that with the Class 90s!

That include designing the EFE class 143 / 144's?

Pity that 2002 does not have smoke deflectors, otherwise the New North Eastern Railway Company would have added 60301 Duke of Cumberland to the engine pool. 

4 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I seriously wonder if they have?  Judging by some of the model railway items which have hung around for ages, or not even been around that long, before being sold off at reduced priced.  The sheer fact, current 'bulge' apart, their inventory has grown over the years indicates that there is a lot of unsold stuff hanging round their neck like a finacial millstone.  And obviously spending £5 million on stock for Christmas which didn't sell says to me that there was serious failure to read the market or an important part of iof

 

So yes - no doubt they did did do a proposal for approval which hopefully included all the numbers.  But it looks now as if they intend to take more notice io what their information tells them that the market wants.  Which in some areas will definitely be rather different from announcing something because someone else has decided there will be market demand for it.

Agree with sentiments above. Hornby have had some choices that have been very much aimed at a market and section of it that has worked out well for them. However, I think that they have been standing on that ground for ages and not moved on with the way the market has changed and the way that spending trends have altered. As someone who did do data on the poll results and by adding this to the items listed in bargain sections or flying off the shelves its clear that Hornby for too long has been focusing on the BR transition period, Southern Region or Eastern Region express for too long. There are other ones in there, but these are almost tokenism by choice and often lack the detail and checks to ensure that the product is done properly or even listed accurately. Ive lost count of the times in which Hornby have mis-labelled a product because it was outside the three topics mentioned previously - its normally something recently up to date.

That just means that they are making stuff that people dont always choose to go for, or have been pushing ideas that did sell well and then gone too far into that territory as the profitable choices dry up (ie Southern Region). I can't help but think that a changing of the guard recently should cure some of this and allow a better focus on accuracy but then also allow the range to diverse and tap the market and choices that other competitors have and are now stealing a march on the red box company. When they do this and find choices and areas that are the true items people want, Hornby will get the sales, get the cashflow, not have the inventory of stock and get the profitability that will please shareholders, the market and customers alike. In some ways that changing of the gaurd is overdue to allow this to happen... hopefully.  

16 hours ago, Markn said:

I got the last 409 from TMC earlier. Been on the fence for a while but decided to go for it after seeing all the pics floating around. I did also see that Pete's Spares had 3 left if anyone's still looking.

I checked with Peters by Messenger last night wondering if they had a sound one in stock. Came back from Swimming and tea to find that they had all gone, as noticed them on ebay. So, immediately jumped on the one showing available. Bit more spent, but now on its way. Now needing Accurascale to have the sound decoder and speaker available as that will be instant purchase no. 2. 

10 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Agree with Jubilee - with firebox options.

No need for A4 .. if going to Dapol Black everything, why not pick something not already done.

Totally disagree - 71000 is a prime target - fine engine and deserves a better representation.

Al.

I respect you disagree: 

But the A4 has been done by Dapol and is has not cracked the market. The market is there for a new tooled, DCC Sound A4. 
The Duke will not be done again so soon. With Hornby doing so many its flooded the market and a new updated version will struggle against the current one due to cost increases and people not wanting to cash in the older one against a range still there. 

You might want it, but I can't see it happening. 

My suggestions:

Network Rail Continuous Welded Rail Train
Voyager/Meridian 220/221/222

Class 319/769

Class 150
Class 165/166

3 hours ago, atom3624 said:

Curved ball, and steam locomotive as well.

She was a one-off, but got to be about the most popular 'one off' in existence.

Already done to Railroad Plus standards - aka looks OK, but - by another organisation.

 

71000   Duke of Gloucester.

Totally no need as half the people with one won't upgrade for the sake of it and most of them will still be running on an analogue layout as most of the fleet is the same and they have not converted over. 

In terms of steam from Accurascale my top 5 suggestions in order would be:

1. A4 - DCC Sound and lights upgrade is long overdue

2. B16 - the variants out there can be tooled as one project giving you a popular and varied engine not yet done

3. Rebuilt Merchant Navy - One thats needing an upgrade but will Hornby do it?

4. Jubliee - again a class needing all the varients but captures the current scene too

5. K4 - again not been done and chances are everyone will just want one of the fleet, but it has scope and the demand will be there

(Also ran: Brit, J21, 57xx, S15, 8F)

Of those I question the K4 for Accurascale as they are picking engines and types that have a class and depth in demand too them, but the rest would fit nicely into their portfolio. The other advantage for them is that with steam undergoing an upgrade in terms of DCC, which I term DCC: The Next Generation then all classes become available for retool and thus include more and better DCC. For steam that means sound and lights but will see where Accurascale go... 

Hello all, 

Here you can see the wiring thats been put into the layout but has gone under the track. This entire piece them lifts out and slots back into place. Point motors and track wiring is all attached to this board with the slots for the parts of this forming how the sides seen in the photos get lowered into place. 

Above can be seen the point decoders being wired into place. The wires are all fixed and attached to the board the track is on. 

In order to allow the board to be lifted out at one end there is a significant amount of slack in the cable so that it can remain attached for power from the rest of the layout electrics. The yellow and red wires showing through are for track. Green and Blue are for point motor supply even though it will come from ECoS at the controller. The main reasoning for this is that previously points had a separate transformer, but since moving to a track supply system keeping the wiring for them seperate means that they can have fault finding traced much more quickly. 

Comments and Feedback welcome. 

Just a hint... 

Im on the hunt for 37409 as couldnt afford the pre-order at the time. Really after one with sound but will upgrade one if need be... 

Hello all, 

With half of the station remove and to storage, the time was finally here to move onto another board and this has really kickstarted the mo-jo back into the project. With the station having sat there for ages being built, it was becoming quite a task to progress with it, despite the fact that I am really proud of it but also because the build was massive and there was always something more to do. 

In any case, the station is still needed in place so that the next board can be worked on. Several parts of the track and scenery will flow onto this next board, the first one of three for the main town scene. As a result, track layouts and combinations have been tried and I thought I was getting somewhere with one version before platforms were placed and thus caused another gauging problem. 

Here above you can see the start of the board and the raised trackwork being tested in place. The final diagram is actually different to the one shown here but not by too much. It also shows how the boxes used for the town scene have a lower profile as the town will be deliberately built to be lower compared with the track height. This means that during the build, the track areas are built into a slot that means that should the worst be needed it can be lifted out and allow repairs. Also, the bracing of the board itself means that it creates a 'false floor' over the board allowing for strengthening but also gives a cap into which all the towns electrics and connecting blocks can go. This also allows for the entire layout to be flat on the same height, so that legs needed for the layout can be placed and not need to be adjusted per board. The difference in height between track level and board is the 3 by 1 around the edge but also enough to fit the point motors inside. 

One of the issues soon discovered was how to build the roads around the town and under the railway. To do this, its necessary to lower the road to the board and then raise it, much like old bridges used to do in some areas. The height difference for the main road under the railway is literally just enough to get a double decker bus through. So this - with some nice scenic modelling should be an interesting thing to include. To cope with this, parts of the boards around it are being cut away and the 'road' will be lowered down onto the different level. 

A photo of the board being worked on and buildings being tested for siting. Looking at this - I am changing a few buildings. So the large hotel building will move to where the pub is on the right. The bus taking a nose dive is there testing gradients needed to get it under the bridge. Finally, on the far side will be a road down from the access to the station and a McDonalds drive through - just to have more scenery and adding in more urban scenes. 

The track layout is also interesting allowing the approach lines (2 main and 1 branch) to merge into 2 tracks over to the side and then onto the three roads through the station. This again is deliberate so that there are bottle necks on the station approach and means that trains just cant hammer round one after the other - round and round - which drives me crazy. There will be a need to discuss the bi-directional working of this end too which again should massively vary the activity for anyone looking at the layout from this end. Finally, those eagled eyed might notice some points marked off on the side of the board next to the Dremel as these areas here are where people will need to view through the station with unhindered access. From here you should be albe to see a train come round the corner of the layout next to the depot and then cross the junction and through the station before arriving here. I don't doubt that there will be a few people enjoying that viewpoint when its all done. 

Hope thats of interest. More soon... 

 

1 hour ago, jonnyuk said:

i think the problem is allot of members on here just assume AS will make the best of everything and no other manufacturer even comes close, even wish listing extends to it. If AS did this it would be best loco ever, great clearly allot of crystal ball members, can you tell me the lottery numbers for Friday please.

 

Other manufacturers do make equally as good product, Bachmann consistently make very good stuff on a par with AS, Hornby when they put their mind to it do as well. Dapol's Manor is every bit as good as the AS from the physical models i've seen at shows and also at Rails on display.

I think this is also partly wishlisting/dreaming but also because AS are starting from a fresh perspective and as a result can make new models to a high standard, whereas other companies have been replacing models over time and thus have a few that have been in ranges for a bit but would in turn be developed. It also matches perfectly with a step change in model specs which I dub as DCC: The Next Generation. Already most popular diesel classes have been retooled but now with the lighting functions and sound to be running as per prototype. Perviously there was some control but not for all possible outcomes, but now you can. So you can run just like the real thing. This also is matched with steam starting to get light and sound as standard together, whether that be firebox flicker or a working lamp. If thats the case all steam is open for retooling as the ranges can be redone. People look for who they would like at the time - I know as I lobbied hard for Bachmann to make the Q6 some time ago, thinking that was best fit - but now with AS people see what has been done and like the idea of them doing more. This is despite when others decide to - they can still turn out a good model, such as Hornby 60, Bachmanns new 37/47... and some will stick to them and decry AS because they parrot the line they have come to know or will not pay the price models now come at. 

AS are good and their market share soon will mean we are in an era of the big three. Thats no bad thing, but its also no surprise people want the new guys to make their new engine too.