Colossus

Just preparing to travel to Ponte from Kellington…all of 6 miles😅.

Not made it to Pontefract show since 2018 BC (before Covid).. looking forward to it. All the best to the exhibitors..

Excited - very excited about the announcement of producing pre-TOPS 45s and 46s. The class 44 isn't really on  my list but I am certainly supporting this and will order a "951005" ie, no 6, Whernside in green FY. Well done Rapido..roll on the 45s soon after...😛

Richard.

Thanks for that suggestion @cypherman . I’ve actually noticed him (excellent videos) and was considering seeing if he might take it on. That’s a good endorsement for him.

Hi all:

I have a friend living in the Scottish Borders who's in his senior years. He has a large OO layout but his pride and joy - a Hornby R066 "Duchess of Sutherland" - which is of sentimental value, is now a non-runner. I've not seen it but assume its just the accumulated grime of forty years meaning it needs a strip down and clean. My friend's in failing health and I know if nothing else, he'd like to see his 6233 run again.

I'd like it if I can source someone or somewhere he can send it to for overhaul or repair. Any genuine suggestions very welcome.

I would absolutely love to see some 1st generation DMUs, particularly a class 110 ‘Calder Valley’ unit and a 104. Such a massive part of the northern scene. 

A ‘Cravens’ 105 would be tremendous too. N gauge I mean.

I’ve managed to find what appears to be another (B&W) pic on Flickr of seemingly the same train. Seems the pic is at Derby and is in 1968- the year after theBass internal railway system closed which tells me the tank will have been loaded onto the rail wagon from a road vehicle and also explains the particular red livery and type style which looked too modern for mid sixties and were of the sort adopted after the ‘Bass Charrington’ merger in 1967.

It seems to be pointing south in the pic- is it? Anyone?

A question primarily for Andy at Rapido @rapidoandy   ..but also for anyone who can answer this. And I don’t want to hijack the thread and can discuss elsewhere if requested to do so.

I refer you all to the fascinating photo of D6 Whernside [ edit! I mean D5 Cross Fell”!].. on the Rapido ‘class 44 page’ on website . I just noticed she’s coupled to a bulk ale tank in Bass Worthington livery. My initial question Andy, do you have details of the date and location of the photo please ?

Secondly, does anyone know definitively what working this might be? My specialist subject is Burton beer& brewery railway history (esp Bass Worthington whom Dad worked for). I know these ale tanks were detachable and movable onto road vehicles; and that in the mid-sixties when ale in cask was beginning to move away from rail to road, there remained a regular flow of bulk ale to Belgium where it would have been bottled for sale there.
It’s likely this was a beer train or a partial beer train (obviously from or to Burton) and also likely it was export beer via London (perhaps Dock Junc. by St Pancras) or Southampton where bulk ale for the continent had been sent by Bass). There was a SX 0650 Horninglow Sidings (Burton)-Dock Jn (St Pancras) in 1961. But I’m more sketchy on ale trains by the mid/late 60s as Bass prepared to abandon ale by rail in mid 1967. Any answers from anyone would be great.

I have to add my t’u’pp’nyworth. Absolutely delighted about this announcement. My chosen era is 1969-73 and  I’d begun to give up on a prospect of an up to date (ie re-tooled)  ‘Peak’ to appearing...

I personally haven’t been craving a 44 as their more restricted routes are not central to my needs (without the a Rule 1 card being heavily thumbed) but CAD images and the prospect of a really sharp model could change all that. Oh but classic split-box and central split box 45s in pre TOPS blue or later green...bring em on! I’ll have four or five..They have to happen now surely? It would be a cruel world that produced a class 44 then abandoned  the project there.

Very excited @rapidoandy

5 hours ago, Steven B said:

I've never used a Railmatch aerosol without it clogging. Phoenix aren't much better - it's a struggle to re-use a part-used can.

 

There are a number of paint supplier who will sell you a 400ml aerosol for £12-£15 which shouldn't have these problems. The paint codes are:

BS381C/114 "Rail Blue"

BS4800/08 E 51 "Golden Yellow" (Pantone 116)

 

I suspect this is the later post 1985 shade but there's not much difference between the two if you're going to weather the model.

 

Steven B.

Thanks for that Stephen B. Not having experience of having paint mixed to order, are you saying using those codes, I could walk into say, a B&Q or wherever, and have a good approximation of Rail Blue and warning yellow produced? Ie, they are ‘official” accepted codes for those shades or approximate matches? Intriguing if so.

On 23/05/2022 at 18:00, Graham108 said:

Have you tried contacting Phoenix direct - https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/

On 23/05/2022 at 18:00, Graham108 said:

Have you tried contacting Phoenix direct - https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/

No not yet. I deliberately chose to ask around here as, one can usually count on some additional insight into using paints or alternatives- as evidenced by the reply from @Stephen B above..I got bored with trying to decide the validity of the websites too. Ultimately I’ll try to give Phoenix or Precision a ring before an order.

Quick question as someone may be able to definitely answer. I’m trying to source rattle can versions of both Rail Blue and the early version of warning panel yellow. All my searches for these by Railmatch seem to show the Rail Blue available but only the “post 1985” yellow in aerosol. Anyone know if the early version yellow is available in aerosol?

Meanwhile, can anyone tell me if Phoenix make both these colours in aerosol? It’d be great if I can buy both colours from the same source to save a bob or two on postage. 

50 minutes ago, Steven B said:

The sound decoder is factory fitted so no need to mess with it.

 

You can test/run-in/run on DC without any problems, and as woodenhead mentions you'll get some of the sound effects.

 

It's generally recommended that you avoid controllers with feedback or PWM and disconnect any Relco type track cleaners when running DCC fitted locos from a DC controller.

 

Steven B.

I've just taken delivery of mine (D 248) and what looks just like a decoder to my untrained eye is in a bag, separate to the loco and separate to the accessories. I happily confess I thought that WAS the decoder, but assume that's the blanking plate and the decoder is already in situ. Thanks Steven.

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

I've just placed my sound fitted class 31 on a dc test track - wow, it reacts like DCC - engine start up and delay whilst the motor sounds spool up, very clever.

 

So yes, you can test on DC with the sound chip in situ.

Thanks Woodenhead, good to know.

Can I ask a couple of things re this fantastic looking model? Doesn't the sound version arrive with the decoder already in place- or is it separate for the owner to fit themselves? If running it in on an analogue oval as I would be, can this be done with the decoder already in place or does the running in have to happen with the chip still not fitted? I always thought the latter for all models but having seen the instructions, it seems to suggest with he chip in place, the loco can run on DC without any issue..

Thanks for any advice.

So there it is. I'm going to paint a class 46 blue for my1969-70 period project. I've found colour photo evidence of the following running with D prefix numbers and red paint on the buffer beam:

D173,D179, D184, D186, D189, D191. Guys, can you give me any others than had the red embellishment?

I've had a good root through that section but no mention of which examples wore red when they were blue, despite finding plenty in there on Peak transition liveries.

Have PM'd CHARD but no reply and no progress yet.

I seem to recall a lively and lengthy thread a started a few years back about 'transition era'diesel liveries (certainly class 44/45/46 Peaks). My question is about Class 46s that when repainted from green to blue, received red buffer beams. So far in a few days' scratching about I've got pictorial evidence of: D173, D184/86 & D191 carrying the red paint. I'd like to discover which if any other class 46s were similarly treated.

I don't know whether someone can point me towards that old thread or, if it covered the red beams? - I do remember it covered all other livery variants such as grey stripes/economy green, full yellow nose in green, etc etc. Also aware @Russell Saxton may be able to help here as very much his territory. 

Any firm evidence of other red buffer beamed Class 46s that anyone knows? Thanks all.

15 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Declassified, renumbered and I even remembered to take the 1st Class labels off the windows.

 

I have had to snip the corner buffer beam steps off though otherwise it wasn't going anywhere. 

May I ask- what method did you use to remove the original numbers?

2 hours ago, Padishar Creel said:

 

Swapping couplings is easy, an NEM pocket is mounted on the bogie. If you use Dapol short NEMcoup couplings, you can almost close the gap and they will still negotiate radius 1 curves. The head of the short Farish coupling hits the moulded steps and can cause derailments.

The MK2Fs are slightly lower than the MK1s and noticable when coupled to a BG whereas at a scale 12" to the ft the height is hardly noticed. My solution was to take an old B4 bogie cutting as in the photo, then using a hole puncher in plasticard create a collar for the gap between underframe and bogie. This lowers the MK1 to the same height and increases the realism. I still think though I need to find a very slightly thicker plasticard.

Also fitting B4 wheelsets to a new style CW bogie also reduces the height of a MK1 to the same level. 

So with this technique the heights of MK1, MK2F and Dapol MK3 are all equivalent and makes a mixed rake so typical of the WCMLmore realistic.

 

(Similarly if you create a collar from the clear inner packaging of Farish models the height of a MK2A can be raised without making the coach look as if it is standing on its toes)

 

es grüßt 

pc

Thanks for that Padishar. It just wasn't clear that the new Mk2f had NEM pockets- that's a relief. As long as I can us different coupling combos to coupler as close as radii will permit, that'll do me.

Afternoon all,

An intriguing thread especially with six of these coaches in order. I'm a bit unsure about some of the terminology being used - may I ask a few fundamentals? Is the coupling supplied easily swapped? Does the model come with alternative couplings or lengths? I was concerned that the coupling wasn't of the NEM 'box' type and that swapping in and out couplers of choice wasn't possible. Can coupling be pushed in/pulled out as desired?  I've seen so many different couplings mentioned above, I assume that any coupling is easily replaced? Just a bit of clarification please.

Nice one.

Just remembered that one of my favourite layouts on the current circuit is 'Fenchurch St Peter' (which has a thread here on RMWeb). It's set in the Kings Lynn area and runs these wagons.Those guys might have further ideas about use of the the Bass grain vans at the East Anglian end of things. They state their layout is set in 1967 which would be the very earliest point of Bass Charrington liveried vehicles.

Glad to help Tim. The main thing to remember is "Bass Charrington" as a name only came into being in 1967 so accurate portrayal of that model is after this date. And as I said, it was ironic it was the date that Bass effectively closed its railways and went almost entirely on to the road. But they were a huge brewing concern and such was the massive demand for malt in their brewing, Shobnall continued to be supplied with bulk barley by train for about another decade using wagons like these.

Someone above mentioned Sleaford Maltings. This enormous maltings was built by Bass in 1902 but efficiencies in malt production such as moving from 'floor maltings' to mechanised drum maltings meant Bass closed Sleaford by 1959. Bass also had maltings at Retford and Lincoln and a contract with a maltings in Grantham in the earlier 20th C and numerous different maltings around Burton. But Shobnall was destined to be their key facility . So high was the demand from Bass for barley from the 1860s onwards, many locations in counties from Lincolnshire south to Essex supplied barley destined for Burton. Even after 1967 when the newly formed national brewing group Bass Charrington's malt production was centred entirely on Shobnall, the quantity of barley required was colossal and the contents of those Bass Charrington grain hoppers will have been drawn from all over East Anglia. I'm not sure where it was centralised at, i.e., where the wagons were loaded.

As an aside, malting used to be seasonal and to cope with the heavy work of turning grain on maltings floors, Burton used to have an annual influx of seasonal labour from eastern England. Nicknamed 'Norkies' by the Burtonians, they will have certainly travelled from areas associated with barley production and many of these will still have been barley areas in the 1970s. In the decade 1890-1900, Bass engaged workers from locations such as: Woodbridge, Bury St Edmunds, Ipswich, Halesworth, Mildenhall, Bungay, Newmarket (Suffolk); Harleston, Swaffham Diss and Thetford (and others) in Norfolk and one or two places in Essex such as Mistley and Manningtree.

On 07/04/2020 at 18:51, pinzaboy said:

Hi

I was wondering if anyone could advise where and when the red liveried Bass Charrington 4-wheel grain hoppers operated?

 

Here's a Bachmann one I've just weathered with another 5 to do. Knowing where and when they ran would help me decide on the correct traction. 

 

Thanks in advance 

 

Tim 

Hi Tim,

I think I can flesh out this a bit and correct a couple of earlier remarks. Vehicles of this type were originally purchased by Bass (and Worthington)  for 'internal user' use in the 1950s to transport finished brewing malt from the garners in various maltings to the breweries, all in various areas of Burton. The first ones bought in 1956 and more in 1959 were built by Hurst Nelson and later, another eleven (numbered Bass 12-18) and Worthington now 3-6) came from Charles Roberts. At this period they were in grey livery. I'm guessing no 23 modelled, was from a yet later purchase. Previously, handling of barley (for malting) or finished malt was moved around the Bass Worthington system in ex MR vans, first in sacks and then using converted interiors.

The thing that dates this model is the name "Bass Charrington"- this was Britain's biggest brewing group and was formed in 1967 (Charrington United Breweries merging with Bass M&B). It's a key date as it was also the year the Bass railway system was abandoned and dismantled - all apart from the line from the main line into Shobnall Maltings. Shobnall in the north- west side of Burton was their biggest and fully mechanised maltings facility and where all production of malt made from barley for the group became concentrated at.

So even though, to all intents and purposes, Bass abandoned their rail use in (July) 1967, and the extensive rail system around these maltings was heavily cut back, the road from Leicester Jn (half a mile south of Burton station) into Bass' Shobnall Maltings was kept open to continue taking barley by rail as we went into the 1970s. Various locations in east Anglia had always supplied the vast majority of barley for Bass -this didn't change just because Bass abandoned its internal railway. So your van belongs to the 1967-78 period and was used solely for transporting barley, for malting, from various east Anglian destinations, into Bass' Shobnall Maltings. Ironic as Bass Worthington group (as it was in the 1950s until 1961) had obtained these vans for 'internal user' - yet they ended up bringing barley fron eastern England to Burton main line.

I've seen one picture of a train of grain arriving at Shobnall in the mid 70s behind a class 31 - the pic may have been in "Power of the 31s" ( which I don't own a copy of) but I could easily be wrong - it could be elsewhere. I saw it flicking through second hand books at an exhibition. I believe a class 08 was employed at Shobnall to shunt the vans, presumably from the exchange sidings. 

As an aside, in "The Railways Around Burton upon Trent" [H N Twells], is a pic of similar 20t grain vans being shunted into Ind Coope brewery (close to Burton station) as late as 1978. This was a separate company but shows barley (or maybe already malted barley) was still arriving by rail late 70s. After that all grain transport went into the road.

Hope this helps Tim.

Richard.

On 29/04/2020 at 05:29, delticfan said:

Opening scene heading south past BOCM Selby before the swing bridge! Not sure but first pass of a Deltic is at Great Heck where Plasmor have their siding which you see on the left. Second power station passed is Eggborough now closed. I know all this cos I live near these places, this is pure gold take me back please.

No, the passage of the southbound Deltic isn't at Great Heck, it's at Tempsford with the goods shed and the down slow on the left. The quick shot of the power station is, as you say Eggborough, shot as the train passes near Hensall village just north of Heck.