robmcg

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for that Rob,

 

I think all of us find some aspects of railway modelling boring; I certainly do - all that Bytham point rodding, for instance; all 35' of it. Now it's done and finished, however, it really was well worth my efforts. 

 

In my usual 'hypocritical' way, I admit to finding RTR boring at times as well. Now that shows are coming back, I'll warrant that in the next few months I'll see a load of W1s (in all three forms) running on layouts. Almost all will be Hornby ones. There's nothing 'wrong' with that, but, hitherto, to see any W1 on a layout would mean its source would be scratch-built, kit-built or heavily modified. It thus, at least to me, would have a 'story' to tell, which I'd always find interesting. The fact that the Hornby 60700 is probably more accurate than my quarter-century-old kit-built one is rather annoying, I must admit.  

 

At one show, I saw two identical Bachmann Scottish D11s sitting side by side on a layout. Both had just been bought. They were both on the layout for the duration. I felt it was absurd, and 'questioned' one of the operators. I was told that they belonged to different club members (club democracy insisted that all members had a right to run what they liked). When I asked could they not be altered/renumbered/renamed/etc., I was informed that such actions would mean they'd be worth less. I walked away! 

 

I think part of my 'problem' is that current RTR is far superior to the vast majority of what's been made. Up to the end of the last century, it was the opposite. Most RTR up to then was awful - tender drives, armoured valve gear, split chassis (which did just that!), hopeless detail and crude finishes were endemic. Not now, and, especially with regard to complex liveries, even the top pro painters would struggle to match most. 

 

Yet, such is my 'obstinacy' that I still prefer to make my own locos and rolling stock. In the past, the reason was that I could always make mine 'better' than any RTR equivalent; or, in most cases, because there was no RTR equivalent. However, I don't now mind my efforts being 'worse' than RTR equivalents. They'll always by 'mine' in a unique way, but, I accept that others can derive a lot of pleasure from owning RTR stuff. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Thanks for that reply Tony, I don't think your preferred medium of enjoyment will die anytime soon, people love making things, and your skills and may I say character make such things the very essence of life. Your 'can do' approach is very refrreshing, and I can relate to it utterly after many years seeing people recovering from injury.

Thus I look forward to your latest 9F with full paint..  It will give me an opportunity to show one of 'mine'.   

On 15/01/2022 at 05:01, cmtrain said:

 

Hi Mark,

 

Msg me with your email address and I will take a look at your pre-orders and try and see what's wrong. There's no migration issues that I know off, just a very rare bug that stops a hand full of people from viewing their pre-orders.

 

Kind Regards Chris

Ecommerce

Rails of Sheffield

Hi Chris,

I have a query about the new website.

I have bought hundreds maybe thousands of pounds worth of engines off you in years gone by but the new website does not mention VAT  for me, living as I do in New Zealand, I am not liable for this cost.

Just yesterday I tried to buy a new V2 and received an Email including postage to NZ, fine, but I was required to pay the full amount including about 40 Pounds VAT.

This happened a couple of months ago and I simply gave up.

Can you explain why the website ignores VAT for customers outside the UK/EU?

Cheers, Robbie. 

On 06/02/2022 at 20:12, davidw said:

It's just a Photoshop image in the catalog. TBH not their best effort.

I must admit I am hoping for something special from Hornby with the new 9F.

When I think of the standard achieved with the A2s and Clans and other recent large steam I transpose this to the engineering samples already shown and it bodes well for a 'state-of-the-art' model.

Will the next items of interest be livery samples? 

Also I think there are enough people left in my age-group (b.1950) who actually experienced the last 15 years of BR steam and that of course includes the 9F as a very much a 'must have' model.  That said, it will still have compromises brought about by 00 gauge, thick wheel profiles, type 2 curves, maybe type 3 or 4?, plastic deflectors, fragility, assembly and so on...   

Good evening Tony, or morning...

With the nature of scale modelling being forefront, and I did rather over-do my reaction to your invitation regarding 9F photos, here is an example of just how well Bachmann did with their 2006 version,  in this case a Modelzone limited edition, of the preserved Bluebell Railway 9F 92240 in weathered BR condition.

I photographed it in its normal condition then superimposed a photo of the wheels and motion and injector pipes over the relevant parts.

How hard it is to replicate railways in model form!  The textures of metal on prototypes will be forever and elusive effect!

Standard condition as supplied by Bachmann, detail pack parts added.

Wheels and motion from prototype, about 90 degrees rotated alas, but the comparison is interesting. What a challenge for modellers and manufacturers to achieve this 'look', for want of a better word.

I agree Tim does beautiful work on Gilbert's Peterborough North locomotive fleet.

On 18/02/2022 at 22:07, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Rob,

 

You know, I never noticed!

 

So much for my observational skills!

 

Why not show some of your other 9F pictures? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Well, that's a very dangerous suggestion.

Allow me therefore to show two recent pictures I have made, showing the finest large steam engines ever made in Britain, both designed by Robert Riddles.  

I used to hang around steam sheds when I was 12 years to 16 or so, when steam more-or-less finished here in NZ and also in the many English magazines I used to read.

The Riddles 8P finally made good after miraculous restoration, and the Riddles 9F, each repesented here by Hornby and Bachmann respectively.

With Kylchap chimney and exhaust, and a correct ashpan, this engine can flatten Shap and Ais Gill like no other.

Going beyond the 9F theme for a moment, and well away from the ECML, is this lovely engine... a rebuild of course but arguably the last type of express steam engine built in Britain... with Light Pacifics too of course.

Edit; back to the foolhardy invitation to show Bachmann 9Fs,  I must congratulate Bachmann for their model,  as it provides such a marvellous basis for pictures.

Factory-weathered 92233 

Factory-weathered 92185 a proper ECML engine, even if Swindon-built..

Annesley Great Central , I think, ...   92070  Crewe-built in 1956 for the ER

Seen above with 'real' wheels but still with Bachmann body.

A TMC-weathered 92077,  Crewe-built for LMR.

Finally a long way from Little Bytham, 92245 emerges from Devonshire Tunnel on the S&D...    1-in-50 and twelve on, keep those wondows closed. 

And a chocolate-box-clean S&D engine, below, was 92220 ever this clean?

Apologies for late additions. 

15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Rob,

 

During my two days at Hornby, I didn't see anything of the new 9F (to be fair, I didn't even ask about it). 

 

And, I'm sure you're right that any OO models of 9Fs, whether they be RTR or kits, will have an extended coupled wheelbase. I don't mind this, especially if the only way to tell is with a scale rule.

 

Nice picture, by the way. I think it's as good as anything I might achieve, especially from that low angle; perhaps even better. 

 

This is not a criticism of your picture, by the way, but that NEM pocket in the pony is gross. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony, I won't show my large number of 9F photos since my post was mainly curiosity regarding the new Hornby version...   and of course many of my Bachmann versions are weathered.

Nobody appears to have noticed that I showed 92192 a page back paired with a BR1C Midland Region tender, a grave misdemeanour, my only excuse is that the Ebay seller offered the model at a very sharp price.

The compromises we make!

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Andrew,

 

I should have pointed out that other building will be necessary to 'accurately' create the trains I mentioned. If nothing else, the twin FOs are a good start, but, even in the (only) eight-car afternoon Talisman, the Thompson catering pair will have to be built.

 

It was interesting running the ex-streamlined cars I'd made on Hornby's test track yesterday. They'd (just) go round the standard 4th radius Hornby set-track curves (around 23" radius), but struggled on the tighter ones. The designer of the Coronation artics is working on a system whereby the joint bogie's couplings will extend on tight radii (different from what's gone before). I'm told the sets will have to traverse 2nd radius curves.

 

This is a situation faced by all the RTR manufacturers; they get nearer and nearer to 'scale' models, yet they have to negotiate train set curves; in some cases laid on the floor!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Another aspect of designing scale models to go around approximately 18"-radius curves has been the Bachmann 9F...  which although in theory capable of going around type 2 set track curves is far happier on type 3 in my experience..  

I am curious about Hornby's new 9F and whether it will have a scale wheelbase, brakes between drivers, and whether or not this is indeed possible with standard or typical 00 flanges. Perhaps Hornby will finally end the requirement to negotiate type 2 curves?

There are photos about of engineering samples of the new Hornby 9F but I haven't seen any photos with brake gear installed.  As I understand it pretty much all 00 models of 9Fs involve compromise in driving-wheel spacing and geometry.

Here below is one of my Bachmann 9Fs which shows how well this RTR model solves the problem... rather well in my opinion.

I know that this thread is primarily concerned with model-making but I like to think that our RTR model-developers are also 'making models'.

Also for those interested the photo is from a full frame Canon EOS RP with a mid-range RF 35mm macro lens, three exposures joined for sharpness,  Not quite your top Nikon lens...  but enjoyable.

For those who are considering a V2 but have not yet made the leap....   here is newly-arrived in NZ V2 60847   

I confess I had been concerned about the rods and motion being a little too bright. I need not have worried!

Photo by my brother Trevor and I have added background only, the model has not been fiddled except in tone and contrast etc.

I dug out a rather old model of the Hornby BR 71000 'Duke of Gloucester' the other day, mainly to try out a new digital full frame camera. (Canon EOS RP).

I had thought of a more recent 'up-to-date' model but had not photographed the DoG in this form, full lining 1960 version.

I was impressed, especially with details on, and here it is. An undervalued model in my opinion, rather like the P2.

Then as is my habit I touched up some details, around the front and firebox mostly, and got this.

I really think this model is undervalued

Do readers think there are any others which might qualify ?

If you insist on an ER 9F which were to my mind the most sadly underutilised 9Fs of all...  not in their early years on the ECML  but in so many being scrapped before even a first grade A overhaul.

Beautiful stuff and much-liked by crews.

And so impressive!

Although why one would blow off on shed is beyond explanation...

What a contrast to my picture of early 9Fs on their first allocation, the Ebbw Vale ore trains...  I look forward to seeing the finished article. 

No problems with wheelbase accuracy were encountered in creating this picture.  Sometimes I graft (copy/paint) prototype driving wheels and motion on... it's mostly the subtleties of flanges and wheel treads and spokes and rod dimensions which make the difference, and as you point out Tony the general pipework was pretty impressive on the real' engines.

Cheers 

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

As a model-maker of who clearly builds his models 'un-properly', might I suggest it's horses for courses?

 

With nigh-on 200 locos I've built which can run on Little Bytham, they are obviously 'layout locos'; complete with all the compromises which are endemic in the breed. My lack of skill, fortitude, patience, reluctance to alter things too much, indolence and zeal with regard to how my locos run all militate against the creation of 'perfection'.

 

To praise a (clearly superlative) model, is it necessary to qualify it with 'criticisms' of others?  

 

I know. I'll buy a really cheap camera, and that way, even in a still picture I'll take with it, nobody will be able to see all the mistakes.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

They'll be able to see any number of mistakes if you let me edit it!

It's terrifying how post-shot editing has become the norm for many kinds of photos these days, portraits, real estate, 'news', 'facts', historical records,  ,....  unethical at least when editing is not divulged.

1 hour ago, Hilux5972 said:

I think it was decided previously that could be a breach of copyright. I’m anxiously awaiting mine too. Ordered 14 Jan from Hornby Magazine and still waiting. 

Ah yes. Why did I forget that.    I'm wondering if the catalogue might turn up sooner in a NZ retail store than taking a chance with a UK purchase? 

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mike,

 

Just measuring the DJH coupled wheelbase, it's a twitch over 22' in scale. So, towards a foot too long. 

 

Running on a layout, I honestly can't tell this fact........

 

 

 

Especially in tight perspective. This is actually a Model Loco example.

 

 

Another DJH 9F, this one built by someone else.

 

 

One might argue that the Bachmann 9F is actually better (I'll measure the coupled wheelbase on this one and compare). All I've done is to detail and weather this example.

 

 

As supplied, the Bachmann 9F needs weathering for realism.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

And don't they come up well!

This above about 100 Pounds on Ebay.

The upcoming Hornby model means that our cup runneth over, for RTR....  and Hornby has recently done so well with such as the A2s that it may well be a tour de force.  Of course weathering and some renumbering and tender swapping will be in order. I admire the standards of modelling which go into RTR and am continually amazed.

On 22/01/2022 at 08:59, gooderz said:

Looks a good model, but I can't say it beats the Bachmann 9Fs enough for me to want to shell out on its silly price and add 9F no.5 to my collection

Only 5 ?     A bare minimum is 10, and I'll still buy one of the Hornby models if they sustain recent standards of detail, as per the A2s and others.

Could anyone perhaps scan the catalogue picture of the Hornby 9F from the catalogue, either one, so that we antipodeans still waiting for a colour image may drool over the prospect?

I did do this colouring of the pre-production model.

and of course it's a fair way to go before we get to weather our models.

92116 being a Bachmann version.

56 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

That is of course depending on your view as to the merits of changing the game.

While I appreciate the depth of field that Tony achieves by using a large f stop, as used in technical photography, I still find photographs that simulate the 1950s and 60s amateur shots with limited film speed and depth of field attractive. There is a skill and an artistic talent in getting just the right part of a scene in sharp focus.

Bernard

Photo-stacking or focus-stacking does not inevitably mean sharpness everywhere, and I agree that composition, lighting and sometimes even a degree of distortion play a big part in making an attractive evocative picture. 

I often use two pics for a 3/4 engine portrait so I don't need the extremes of high-number f-stop and super-long open shutter, each with its compomises like electronic 'noise' in the sensor and minute camera movement.

Many ways to achieve similar goals, certainly.  In playing with a couple of new Canon RF lenses in the last week, stimulated by TW, I have achieved astonishing sharpness and clarity, but I wouldn't want it over the entire frame. 

Now if only I had placed 46252 on a model scene as good as Little Bytham!  This pic is far from finished.

Postscript to the above.

I too will be be very interested in Mike Wild's photos of Little Bytham. A good day it ought to be.

Thanks David, 

It is always interesting to see how other people find their way to good photos, and I appreciate your full answer.

I do very similar things but with different Canon Cameras, and I use Windows-based programs and Paintshop Pro 6 (really old program)  to acheive the kinds of depth of field you have from your G12.

I started with an SX120 from memory about 2004 anf then SX130 or 150 I forget which all these were excellent in their day, then around 2012 I bought a half-frame EOS-M which unsurprisingly had less depth of field but more detail and general image quailty. I experimented wih an adaptor and good-quality EF and EF-S lenses, but couldn't find a good combination, and learned by myself to do focus stacking by copy-pasre rather than layering ...  my stacking is done tking several shots with different focus points and simply selecting the sharp parts of one to copy and past onto the less-sharp bits of another, using slight re-sizing of donor or recipient if necessary. So I stayed with the EOS-M 'kit' lens an 18-55mm zoom, which is about 24-85mm in 35mm equivalence I think. 

Odd how we all find different ways to achieve the same end..

Last week I decided to research full frame cameras like Tony Wight's Nikon Df , but Canon versions, and on Friday bought an EOS RP with a 24-105mm zoom and also a straight 50mm.  All good so far. 

The advertising for the 24-105mm said it will focus down to 5" but that is disingenuous, it will do that manually at 24mm wih lots of manually-set parmeters but only in the middle of the frame, ... the rest of the picture is fuzzy, no good at all for railway scenes.   

Both lenses will only focus down to 11"  too far away to get that 'real engine' perspective, so I am looking at a macro lens. but not before trying a lot of angles and methods with these current 'cheap' normal lenses (about UKP250-400 each). The 'good' lenses for full frame mirrorless cameras are up to UKP2,600...   not a very wise purchase when you are like me just experimenting!  

Full frame does give incredible sharpness as Tony's pictures show, and in his case he has found that elusive depth of field with very small aperures on top micro lenses. Nikon call these lenses 'micro' everyone else calls them 'macro', don't ask me why. Standard lenses on full frame 35mm format require very small apertures like F36 which in turn requires good light and long shutter-open times, to get anything like acceptable deoth of field,  so image stabilisation is a good thing, I lost two photos a fortnight ago to blurring from what turned out to be the Tongan volcano about a thousand likometres away, I thought it was faulty sensor.

But I am rambling.  Here is one of my first photos with the EOS RP and 24-105mm set to 55mm and F29, 30 secs.

It is becoming a standing joke for me to have a pair of tender wheels askew! I have cararacts, pretty bad in one eye, so often don't see detail until after taking photos.

Quite a long way to go yet to get the kind of atmosphere I can sometimes get as in ths below. Canon EOS-M... and Hornby's underrated 'Duke'.

Neither are quite Haymarket, please forgive me. I think 72000 could be Camden at a stretch.

Thanks again for your reply.

Robbie.

On 28/01/2022 at 10:45, Tony Wright said:

I popped over to see Retford today. 

 

Thanks for your hospitality, Sandra.

 

I took some pictures, including............

 

 

A modified Hornby A4 on the Down Talisman.,,,,,

What a very fine photograph of a stunning model railway.

Your influence on many readers Tony must be very great. I have just bought a full frame digital camera and am in the process of finding which lenses and settings might permit me someday to aproach the standard you achieve, the 'gold standard', with your Nikon and various lenses.

I have bought, for any who are interested, a full-frame Canon RP 26MP mirrorless camera and a couple of basic lenses, but even these weren't particularly cheap.  I do love cameras though, so messing around with them and RTR models will bring much pleasure, and quite probably a degree of bemusement and frustration. Untangling the intricacies of modern camera menu systems and endless options for settings is something of a skill, separating what matters from what doesn't, don't get me started! .

Thank you for setting such an admirable standard.

Hi David, I particularly like the perspective in your photo above of the A3 with A4 in the background.

I may have asked before, but may I ask what camera and lens and settings you use? I am in the middle of changing my camera and am always interested in the methods used by those who achieve such good results.

Of course it's a subject in itself, but I doubt you'll find much agreement about how best to photograph models!  A young camera-shop guy I spoke to yesterday was keen to help and advise me but when it came to perspective and close-up stuff he seriously did not 'get it'.

FWIW I have mostly used Canon medium format cameras until now and am today buying my first full frame digital (35mm sensor)... and a couple of lenses.   And people think model trains are expensive?  Try camera lenses!

Cheers, Robbie

Back to modelling, sort of.  the steps on the Hornby RTR models of the original W1 are a bit of a problem being out-of-gauge, and I have wondered about making a set which would be more like the prototype.

I think even the prototpe may have had tight clearances, I can't imagine how tight EM or P4 would be, but here is how Hornby's lovely model looks with a section of a public doman photo grafted on...

originally

The flangeless rear truck?  Hardly notice it guv.

34 minutes ago, jimwal said:

 

Being closer to China than the UK?

Also log-jams of containers from China to Europe, and all the complexities of container shipping through Rotterdam, and other issues.

Australisia also has very inconsistent delivery of goods from China.