davepallant

As John Dew points out there is a new AD-s2sx which has point position memory. Although this new one should always power a frog correctly and is capable of driving two solenoids it can't power the two frogs on a crossover with one channel as I mentioned in a previous reply since they are opposing polarities. This is clear in the instructions and to get the frog drives on a crossover you have to use two channels for the two points and give them the same address.

Concerning the polarity question you generally do not need to worry about polarity. The common output connects to the common connection on the solenoid and the two other outputs connect to either end of the solenoid. You may then need to reverse the two solenoid wires if the point does not move in the direction you want. Once you have the point moving the way you want then you can check the frog and reverse the frog feed wires if necessary.

You may find that a PC style DC power supply is too sensitive in terms of track shorts and trips before the DCC controller. I tried using a laptop PC power supply for my NCE 5amp system but it tripped too fast even though it had plenty of current. It was annoying because the power supply then had to be unplugged from the mains to allow it to reset. This could be true of any generic switch mode PC supply so it's a bit pot luck which might work okay with a particular controller. I ended up with a very simple toroidal transformer providing ac to the controller in an earthed and fused metal case.

Just thinking of an n elevator and two operators..... Need some good interlocking!

Hi John, I reckon a cutting layout is no problem as long as the side nearer the visitors is kept low or is allowed to just rise up to bridges. Our Preston club had a layout called Bee Lane which was set in a cutting with three bridges over the railway. Two bridges hid the exit at the ends of the layout and the side nearest the viewer rose up to the bridge in the middle and back down again.

As for the track plan I would simplify the pointwork. Just have a single crossover in each direction at each end of the layout. If you want to go fiddle to nelevator then you might have to go once round to get to the crossover and vice versa but a lot simpler for exhibition running. Also two scissors between up and down gives all the possibilities but is it going to be strictly necessary when running lots of trains on a continuous basis for a show. Every movement between the two lines will tie up both lines and possibly two operators. Maybe only one end is needed and you can run once round the layout to get things where you want? Alternatively two crossovers between up and down, one at each end. Just thoughts!

Dave

Almost three years on and I'm getting to where I try or sell the Unit.

So, let's get this clear. I will be running DCC for track only and I plan to run all my pointwork from DC source for at least the time being. This means my Unit will be run (say) from an independant DC input and so no DCC short should affect it; that's correct isn' it? Thaqt would cure one of the difficulties of memory as discussed above.

Also, a run of 16 points has to be 8 + 8 (in tandem). Is that the only option? The destructions say you can connect 2 solenoids to each output, so that will operate 2 points at the same time. However if I ran the two sets of wires from each solenoid output to a choc bloc, could I then operate each point independantly in some way. Can't work that out....sorry?

I've got several cross overs that require a double point change so I can do that but could have a few oulets spare; that's why I'm asking this question. 

many thanks and as you can tell I work very quickly indeed....NOT!

Phil

Hi Phil,

If you want to trigger the points using DCC messages then the DCC controller has to be the power input to the board since it does not have a seperate dcc signal input and power input. If you power the board from DC then I think the only option is to control the point motors using the momentary switch inputs.

If you wire two point solenoids together at a choc block then a single output will control the two together simultaneously. So your crossovers will operate off of a single output. I have numerous pairs of SEEP motors operating together off of a single ADS-8fx output. The two solenoids have to move at the same time. So in a fiddle yard you might be able to operate the points at both ends of a siding simultaneously with a single output (within a reasonable distance - maybe a couple of metres). Also if you have points either side of a splitting point at the entrance to the fiddle yard you might be able to design the point layout to operate a point on the left side and a point on the right side simultaneously to reduce the number of outputs needed. The left right splitting point will need an output for itself.

Note that I am writing from the point of view of not using the ADS-8fx frog relays. If you are controlling two points in a crossover then you will have to rely on the points or mechanical switches to power the frogs since the two frogs will usually be opposite polarity.

Dave

Hi Ben and Mike,

Might be a daft question but how long is a pair of these in real life or N gauge? They're not a common format for me that I can relate to and cant find any drawings or specs on the interweb. I just want to check how many will fit my yard!

Thanks

Dave

Thanks Arran,

I've put an order in. Good to see another rolling stock manufacturer supplying N gauge!

Dave

Hi Mike and Ben,

Any thoughts on the cases yet? Will it be individual boxes for each coach along the lines of Farish or maybe larger multiple coach cases along the lines of the Kato Eurostar and their other models?

Dave Pallant

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the update and the tweet! Looking good. Interesting to see how many pieces go to make up something with a relatively simple underlying bodyshell!

Looking forward to Warley and further drawings.

Dave

In my list of things to do:

66 Shanks Freightliner - Cogs

158 First NorthWestern - Cogs

158 Central - Cogs

158 Wales and West- Cogs

47 Railfreight Distribution - Cogs

66 66135 - Cog jumping

Also noted

47 Pride of Toton - "All new wheels" - the wheels were slowly used repairing other 37 and 47 so got a whole new set

57 Scott Tracey - "Only 5 drive axles now"

I havent made notes of cogs I have replaced over the years thats just current information and does not include checking all the stock again none of which has run for a year or so now.

I will probably have a running session soon and make copious notes for on here.

Interesting that no electrics in there (BO-BO-OK?) and definitely no Dapol.

Dave

Our experience is that specifying the running characteristics (and allowing the factory to pick something appropriate) is more important than the type of motor.

 

Coreless motors clearly have some advantages (and some disadvantages) but our experience is that the rest of the chassis is at least as important than the type of motor.  Coreless motors are often used as a bit of a marketing gimmick ie if you put a great motor in a poorly engineered chassis with rubbish gears you will get a poor runner.

 

Cheers, Mike

I remember early on in the Pendolino project Mike or Ben posted up a video of a Rapido N gauge locomotive performing very slow speed control to show just how good the Rapido chassis was. Hopefully Rapido will be able to pick us out a suitable technology for the 92 chassis as well!

Dave

I think the bigger problem might be the numerous modern Mk2s needed in the same livery and that might require the involvement of another manufacturer with matching livery colours... Or, even better, a new modern Mk2 that isn't a painted clear shell?

Hi Dave,

 

Yes, there are other vehicles besides the sleepers in the consist but I think, in the first instance, the sleepers are the big missing link. I believe Farish have improved air con Mk2s on the way - I would hope these will provide a good starting point.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

Thanks for the reply Ben. Good new aircon Mk2s is a must for me since I'm not into paint stripper and/or self adhesive sides. Not just for the sleeper support coaches but also the DRS coaches used here and there!

I've ordered three of the 92s and I'm really excited to be supporting you on another project. See you at Warley.

Dave

Hi Supaned,

 

Good point about the Mk3s - chiming very much with some of the input on the Dapol Digest thread.

 

The Dapol Mk3s are pretty decent, in my view, and I am thinking that a Mk sleeper would require a new bodyshell, new glazing unit and, maybe, a new roof? Other than that would the bogies, underframe skirt etc be as already available?

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

I think the bigger problem might be the numerous modern Mk2s needed in the same livery and that might require the involvement of another manufacturer with matching livery colours... Or, even better, a new modern Mk2 that isn't a painted clear shell?

I have to say that I am a regular visitor to model railway shows through the year including Warley and TINGS and I had absolutely no idea that DJM was doing an N gauge Class 92. The great thing about the Revolution Pendolino by comparison was that I couldn't miss it! Now I'm into the Pendolino, TEA, Revolution thing the class 92 announcement was served up to me along with my TEAs so I'm immediately interested.

One thing that would worry me is that if the 2D drawings are as inaccurate as has been suggested in the other thread then creating the 3D model from the 2D drawings and 2D photos could end up with something as accurate as the Farish 56. Close but not quite right. Is anyone thinking of scanning a 92 to duplicate what what was built by Brush rather than what was originally drawn? Maybe Brush have their own 3D data that has been made available?

Dave

The chassis block wil be painted black, and the Windows will be tinted. On the real thing there is only one table lamp in coach K (the driving car at the first class end) and we took the view that this had to be forfeited for reliable running.

 

Dave - if you wanted to light the cab then my thought is that it might be easier to use the lighting unit that is fitted in the end for the marker lights to do this, but it would involve some modelling, or even just fit a small LED in their taking power feeds from the split frame chassis.

Thanks Ben,

That all makes sense and I can now see the size of the chassis from your York photos as well. It looked like there was more in there from the Glasgow photos but I was seeing chassis and wiring as tables and lights!

Thanks

Dave

Good to see the light bars already available. I'll have to have a think about which of my ordered Pendolinos I'll get them for since it will expensive to do them all!

As an aside the website says that there is not room in the driving cars for lights. Does the motor chassis fill the driving cars so that the tint in the window hides the chassis? Does the sound module and speaker go in the passenger area maybe? Is there a visible 'passenger space' in the driving cars even with the sound fitted as well? What I'm really asking is will it be possible for me to fit a couple of leds to illuminate the cabin in the driving cars as well?

Thanks

Dave

Hi Dave,

 

The pickups are on all bogies as supplied.  They have phosphor bronze springs that carry power up to conductive plates (buses) below the floor section.  The coupler contacts touch these bus plates.

 

The light bars are designed to sit on the plastic interior mouldings, and the mouldings have holes to allow similar (but longer) springs to pass from contacts on the underside of the lightbar to the bus plates below.

 

The light-bars are designed to handle 20V AC just as well as 12V DC.

 

I can't right now but on our display at York I am hoping to have a dismantled car to show the way it all fits together.  It's very nicely done IMO.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Hi Ben,

Thanks for replying. It sounds like the track voltage is available on stationary plates (i.e. they dont move with the bogies) inside every coach then. Very useful! Thanks.

Dave

Here is an image showing the light bar installed and working:

 

Light Bar.jpg

 

Please bear in mind too that on the production models the glazing will be tinted, so the effect will be more subtle.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

It was great seeing the Pendolino at Glasgow. Many thanks to Ben for letting me have a close look at one of the coaches.

How is the track voltage picked up in each coach? Are the contacts going to be in the coaches from the outset or will the pickups from the wheels come with the lighting bar kits? Also will the lighting kits be compatible with DC and DCC? Sorry about all of the questions but very interested in the lighting.

Dave

Not sure where Rapido's factory is butlast week the daytime temperatures in Shenzhen dropped as low as 3C. The company I work for has our factory in Shenzhen and the expats working there were very cold and the locals, who are more used to 30C for a lot of the year, were freezing!

Dave

If theres any samples at Warley can someone get some pictures please? Very interested to see what the new faces are like.

The pictures are now all on the website for preorder.

http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/brands/Hornby-railroad/thomas-friends.html

There will be a lot of trouble if the photos are different to what we get!

Dave

A few more steps along the way!

Now I have a DCC decoder for the signals based on an Arduino processor board. This allows the JMRI software to control up to 17 outputs on one decoder.

The interface board for the Arduino with rectifier and regulator and the opto isolator for the DCC input.

The full module with the Arduino plugged in.

And I have that module controlling the gantry made up with two 4 aspect signal heads one of which has a feather.

The two signals are on a pair of tracks that feed into one so one of the two heads will always be red.

Only job left for that gantry is the protective mesh which I bought this weekend at the Wigan show

Dave

I think that is because most DCC systems are set up so that the user is 'driving the train' rather than 'operating the signal box', so handing off control is not as important. That being said, taking control of a train with a different handset is relatively trivial on my Lenz system, with an easy mechanism for ensuring that the new handheld matches the existing speed/direction. I gather it is pretty simple for a DIgitrax system as well.

 

Adrian

I agree that the Lenz is easy to take over another loco if you know the loco address. My point was that that involves passing the number down the layout in some way - shouting, piece of paper attached to a wood block, radio headsets, superhuman eyesight - all of which I have seen in use and some of which I've had to use at shows. All these systems are simple as long as you type the same number in on one controller that is on the sending controller. My point is why not be able to pass the address electronically to the operator where it is going.

 

I think the Z21 / z21 systems are easiest for handing trains over...

Presumably on the Z21 you select the loco from the library and start driving it that way. The Z21 does look to be a nice graphical interface with the right size for each item and just a small function panel where it looks like you can select the functions that show. Not sure that little pictures would help us when we had to choose between 4 blue 86s and 4 blue 85s....

Dave

It looks at if it is aimed at home users who might invite a couple of friends round every now and again rather than as a club layout or exhibition layout controller. There's going to be a bit if a bundle if everyone who needs to take over a train has to push in front of the main controller to assign a train to their handset. Alternatively you have one person in charge of the train assignment and the other features of running the layout. Where most DCC handsets win on club and exhibition layouts is that you can control almost all of the features of the layout from any handset including picking your own trains. 

The Piko Smartcontrol looks interesting in that it is back to the method of having the loco selection and control on each handset but looking at the mishmash of icons on the scrren it looks like they have tied themselves too closely to the Android icon array for the function keys and left far too little space for the small loco text and other displays. There are generally only a few functions you need for each loco and it would be nice to be able to pick out just the ones you need for each loco to free up some screen space.

An area where none of these DCC controllers seem to excel in is having multiple operators along a layout where trains are passed back and forth from one to another. A train is set up in a fiddle yard and sent out into an end to end layout and the operator the other end needs to be passed the train onto their controller. I dont mean shouting the number down the layout or using superhuman eyesight to read it from 30feet away. The operator the other end then takes over the train on their controller (the train does not stop and turn off all of its functions -  cough - NCE) and controls the train and brings it to a halt at the other end of the layout. An interesting way ofimplementing this would be to have a share button which brings up a list of other controllers to pass the train to! Very Facebook!

Been there, done that just yesterday with a Minitrix SNCF BB22200 under a newly installed parapet. Doh!

I've also wiped out the pantograph on a Hornby 92 running it on a layout with OHLE but which was not smooth enough for the lightweight Hornby pantograph they fit on the 92. If a thin lightweight pantograph like the Baby Pendo one does get caught on something accidentally then it will get torn off.

I agree that spares for the pantograph need to be available but I think that there will need to be a other spares for the Pendolino held and sold by someone even if the Revolution guys are not able to spend the time doing it. Maybe set up an official spares dealer supplied with adequate stock in the way that Dapol and others outsource spares now. Couplings, chassis, motors, nosecones that sort of stuff. The bits that could get lost, broken or badly customised and either need replacing straight away or repaired when purchased/sold second hand.

Dave