5050

Last episode was in Cornwall walking the old mineral tramways and railways from coast to coast.  Quite entertaining - but (!) -  very sorry to see and hear that, during a section dealing with Trevithick, Tim perpetuated the old myth that 'Rocket' was the first * steam railway locomotive!  I often wonder if the researchers for these programmes actually do any proper research or do they just listen to what other ill-informed people have said previously and just copy it.

* - first 'modern' multi-tube boiler loco maybe but definitekly not 'the first'.

19 hours ago, decauville1126 said:

RT Models do a set of etched frames already for a 48DS, conceived I would think before the High Level Quadriver was developed to suit Mike Edge's superb etched kit. Might need wheelbases checking though. I wonder if that might help?

 

Scroll down to find it on

https://www.rtmodels.co.uk/rt_models_032.htm

 

 

Only 2 wheel drive (not necessarily a bad thing but 4 wheel is better) compared to the Quadriver which wouldn't fit due to the central 'spine' and spacers.  Making my own chassis has been more 'interesting' than I initially envisaged.  There's a lot of conflicting elements in the fabrication and allowances/clearances have to be made.  There may also be the need to make alterations to the' body' of the Quadriver to make sure I can fit it between spacers etc. - and I've also got to work out how to best fit pickups.

Keeps me occupied

Going to be on telly next week I believe.  Hopefully I'll be well enough to be able to leave the house and get to the market hall by early December.  100 yard walk to the bus stop, 100 yard (or less) from bus station into the hall.  Can't get much handier than that!

Progress at the moment is rather slow I'm afraid due to a combination of circumstances and I'm only working on this roughly every third week.  However, I have made some progress as the following photos show.

The wheel arches have now been fully opened up to take the P4 wheels, using a combination of 'dremelling' and gouging using a well sharpened jewellers screwdriver.  The 'substrate' is a relatively new purchase, a honerycomb ceramic soldering 'mat' which I find very useful, both for soldering and for holding small items whilst filing etc.

Next view shows the tools involved in the work along with the HL 'Rustler'  Quadriver assembled.  i have to admit that putting this together was one of the most problematic of all the HL gearboxes I've built.  Some of this was due to my apparent ineptitude but also the rather tricky assembly sequence necessary to get everything in the right place.  It has turned out to be slightly to wide to readily fit into the footplate slot but a bit of strategic grinding/filing will sort this out.

To complete the assembly there is a need to solder nickel silver parts to the silver steel axle in a couple of critical places and I had difficulty in getting the solder to 'take'.  To use to much heat may have affected the plastic gears so these were left out where possible until soldering was completed which I eventually managed - but I'm still not sure if the joints are fully satisfactory hence the use of nail varnish as well.

The AG wheels are removed from the pin-point axles which are then turned down to length and the wheels refitted.  The non-driven end can be assembled as in the photo but the driven end will have to have wheels fitted  through the gearbox etc. when the time is right.

Now to make the frames!

12 hours ago, djparkins said:

Just to update things - we've now added all the GWR Wagon Kits we currently have, plus a few Classic Commercials vehicles. There wasn't much left stockwise from the CC range. Have also added some Wrightlines locos. Now starting to prepare the LMS/LNER & SR wagons, and all the Narrow Gauge Rolling Stock we have, for adding early next week.

 

Regards

 

David Parkins

www.djparkins.com

Will you be making the parts available separately (brake gear, buffers, axleguards etc.)?  I used to have a stock of these at one time in a Hornby Dublo Breakdown Crane box - but it's vanished (and sorely missed!).

On 18/09/2021 at 18:40, Marshall5 said:

The first 7mm kits from ABS that I bought came in cardboard tubes with bungs in the ends - like very short poster tubes.  That would be c.1974 IIRC.

Ray.

Like this one?

This is a 4mm kit I bought from Adrian's stand at an exhibition way back in the mists of time................

It's only a very light wipe and I've never noticed any degredation of the wheels over the several (many!) years I've been doing this.  The lighter fuel evaporates very quickly in any case.  When I'm building chassis I tend to fit and remove wheels/axles quite frequently to check clearances, smoothness of running, painting frames etc.

I also lightly countersink the wheels' axle holes with a large sharp drill (6mm?)  and make sure there is no 'swarf' in the hole before running a piece of rag with lighter fuel through the hole to degrease (does Colin use a release agent when moulding wheels?) it before using the same rag to wipe the end of the chamferred axle.  Wheels fitted to axles with a GW press.  However, I pack the rim and boss of the wheels in the press with thin plasticard (thickness depending on design of wheel) to try and ensure it is stable and won't rock when pressure is applied.  A very thin smear of Tacky wax holds it all in place whilst pressing.

All pretty normal procedures I guess but (so far at least!) with my removable axles I've not had any wheels come loose.  I tried to re-use some Sharman wheels a couple of years ago but they remained resolutely loose no matter what I tried.

I never have success in removing and refitting wheels such as Gibsons.  They become loose on the axle and, as well as losing quartering, slip inwards so losing the b-2-b. How do you get over this?

I make sure when building a chassis that I can remove axles, axleboxes and wheels intact as sets.

Ordered 2 gearboxes and motors last Thursday, dropped through letterbox Saturday morning.  Great service, thank you Chris.

On 02/10/2021 at 09:15, Michael Edge said:

You will need some sort of frames to hold the axles, the High Level Quadriver only links the axles, it fits inside inner frames in our kit.

That's what the 'dummy' frames are for, to create a template to cut some metal ones.  The potential trouble is that the 'slot' in the footplate casting may be slightly narrower than the overall max. width of the Quadriver so some judicious filing may well be in order.  Until I build the QD I won't know for sure.  The whole project is beginning to appear more involved than I initially thought!

Still need to know what then threading is for the footplate/Hornby drive unit fixing screws.  Possibly 2 - 2.5mm?  8BA to big, 10BA to small.  I'm not sure what (if any) metric screws I have.

EDIT - just found Porcy Main's post in the Hornby thread!  He says 2mm coarse thread.

ANOTHER EDIT - forgot to say that I ordered the QD and another box and motor on Thursday and they dropped through the letterbox Saturday morning.  Great service from Chris.

New build thread started here -

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/167427-a-p4-Hornby-ruston-48ds/

Just one last question here - does anyone know the threading of the footplate chassis securing holes?  I'm presuming it will be a metric thread but I've only got BA ones and none of them fit!

Recently I was offered, free, a body for the Hornby 48DS.  The owner had used the chassis for a 3D printed body of his own manufacture and had no further need for the Hornby body.  It was the 'whisky' one, in Brown, which I will in due course be repainting anyway.  I have been following and contributing to the Hornby 48DS thread and have decided that now I've actually started on the project I would start a new thread here.

The idea is to fit the Hornby body onto a High Level 21mm wheelbase Quad Driver which Chris has produced for powering the Judith Edge kit.  I am presuming (indeed hoping!!) that it will fit the Hornby body as well, especially as I have now ordered one along with a small motor.

When I received the body the owner had removed the 'side panels' already and I was relieved to find there was no damage to the bonnet sides.  Perusing the photos by Porcy Main posted on the Hornby thread, and following his 'instructions' I managed to dissassemble the body and break it down into its constituent parts ie, footplate, cab, cab roof, bonnet and buffer beams.  I hadn't realised that it was virtually all metal and initially was wary about cracking plastic parts but I needn't have worried.  Apart from some 'cracks' when areas of stuck paint were separated all was OK.

The footplate was very easy to detach from the superstructure, just 2 small screws and these were stored away in a small ziplok bag.  The inside of the 'wheelarches' is to narrow to take P4 wheels and needs to be widened.  This has been done (so far one end only) with a selection of rotary cutters in my Faux Dremel plus the occasional use of a sharpened jewellers screwdriver to gouge out bigger chunks.  The casting is quite soft and even a sharp scalpel will remove some surplus metal.  After gouging, the rotary cutters were used to smooth over the surface.

While doing the 'dremelling' I rested the chassis on its side on a piece of 1/8th inch balsa wood.  The projecting steps and lifting eyes were able to sink into the soft surface and be protected from damage while pressure was applied to cut the excess metal away

I now need to cut away the other pair of arches and then my plan is to make a dummy set of inside frames to check I have the correct height and spacing to fit the High Level Quad Driver in the correct position.

I decided milling in the lathe might be a tad OTT so I'm currently attacking the wheel arches with a series of diamond (I think) rotary cutting tools that came with my Faux Dremel (some supermarket or other!).  They are removing the excess metal but it's a slow job.  I've also tried a sharpened jewellers screwdriver to gouge out larger chunks but the rotary tool is still used to smooth off.

I decided that doing this allowed the sand pipes to remain in position, I can hold them out of the way during grinding.  Now I know that they can be pulled out it is an option if required.  They seem to be quite tough and able to withstand bending etc.

Hopefully photos to follow of the whole slow process, probably in a separate thread.

BTW, the roof has come away after a modicum of forceful behaviour - but there was no glazing!  I wonder if the previous owner removed it for his other project.  No problem in making a set of flush glazed windows in due course.

Thanks for the tips PM.  I'll try the roof again, perhaps I'm being a bit to careful!  My buffer beams came away quite cleanly, only one spigot broke but I'll probably stick them back in due course.  Can't really see a need to take them off again once everything is finished - unless of course you can advise me different!

I was considering clamping the chassis vertically, using the flat ends in the machine vice.   Good advice on making a spacer.  I've plenty of wood scraps that will come in useful. The steps etc. on the sides will get in the way if clamping in the other direction.  I'll also have to take care of the sand pipes during milling - unless they can be pulled out. Have you tried this?

The Quad Driver and small iron core motor now ordered (along with a Load Hauler + and motor to replace the one I nicked from my Gordon Ashton Peckett chassis kit).  Nothing like a bit of plastic bashing to raise the spirits.

18 hours ago, AMJ said:

Reading an article in the Wakefield Express say they will also feature Heaton Lodge in an episode.

Appearing at an ex-Market Hall near you in December I have been informed.

Taken it apart, including the buffer beams (hooks removed by straight forward pulling) - but cab roof seems to be securely attached and I ain't going to force it.  Going to order a 21mm Quad Driver from HL today and work out a design/pattern for the inside frames.  I've got several pairs of Gibson Lowmac wheels which are slightly to wide for the chassis so my intention is to mount the chassis in the vertical slide on the lather and lightly mill the recesses deeper. 

Should I start a thread on Kit and Scratch  Building?

BTW, here's a link to the Adam Lythgoe white 48DS, a little way down the page.

https://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107741

Turns out my 'donor' has already removed the panels for hsi photos for an article he's writing.  He also has an 'Army' version I can possibly have.  One of the options I might consider is the Adam Lythgoe loco that worked at Minera Lime Works prior to the rail access closing.  It was finished in an all white with black buffer beams and valance.  Quite an easy repaint hopefully.  And then weathered all white as well.  Easy.........................................

Unlikely.  Currently immune suppressed (until New Year at least) so have to be careful where I go or who I meet.

On 03/08/2021 at 17:18, Neil Phillips said:

 

Interesting, many thanks for the link. So the flat side panels were actually replacement engine compartment doors, not advertising panels as such, with a gap left for engine ventilation. 

 

So much work involved in the restoration of such a small and relatively simple locomotive, my admiration for the preservation movement has just gone up another notch!

I've got a couple of bodies coming my way from a club mate who has used the chassis for a 3D printed loco.  One is the 'whisky' one so I'd like to know if the side panels are removable from the body?  And if so, are the 'standard' louvres underneath?  I'm not sure what the other livery is yet but probably not a whisky one.  I'm doing mine in P4, intending to use a High Level gearbox/chassis intended for use with the Judith Edge kit along with a set of scratchbuilt inner frames and Gibson wheels.  Has anyone tried this approach yet?

22 minutes ago, Gordon A said:

Sorry Paul, I think I may be wrong in what I said.

Looking at other pictures of other 57xx / 8750 Panniers which show the steam heat pipe runs down the LHS, the fireman's side. The steam heat pipe is often a smaller diameter pipe than the vacuum pipe.

Gordon A

No apology necessary Gordon, I'm confused too!  From photos, to me the LHS pipe appears thicker than the RHS one (unless, of course, it is lagging?) which would indicate the RHS one is the steam heat one.  (Unless of course my eyes are deceiving me!) Isn't there anything definitive to confirm this?  Possibly in the Pannier Papers book (which I don't have)?

From looking at the many pannier photos on Rail-online site I reckon there are at least 4 variations on the pipe runs.  First there is the injector pipe, either through or outside the footplate and then the RHS pipe which either goes straight to the back along the valance or bends under the valance just before the steps and then runs to the rear buffer beam just below and behind the valance.  It then angles down, possibly to meet a union with the steam heat pipe on the buffer beam?  There doesn't seem to be any consistency in this, locos with close numbering vary so what decided Swindon which variation to fit?

From the photos of 9793 it appears that it had the 'through footplate' injector pipe (as Bachmann) and the 'straight through' SH pipe - which would be easier to represent.

All this goes to show that what, on the surface appears to be a class of standardised locos, could have lots of individual variations.  What other little nuances could raise their heads on detailed examinations of individual locos?

1 minute ago, Gordon A said:

Vacuum pipe or are you looking at the steam heat pipe in the above photo?

The one on the RH driver's side - which, on reflection, I now presume to be the steam heat one?

Just done a bit of 'tinternet trawling for suitable photos showing the boxes and drawn a bit of a blank.  However, I did come across this -

https://www.minervamodelrailways.co.uk/uncategorized/pannier-images/

They appear to include a box as an optional item to be fitted by the owner so - does anyone know if it is an accurate representation?  I would assume that Minerva have modelled it on an actual prototype but is it a BR (WR) one or a preservation era one?

EDIT - and this one -

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p416923824/hA0FFAA20#hcddf0568

The box appears to be the same as the Minerva one so I've probably answered the question myself!  However, the vacuum pipe seems to be taking a very circuitous route to reach the rear buffer beam.

Thanks for those links.  I'd seen the Carrog one but it doesn't give much away!  From the Llangollen one I reckon the pipe runs full length to the rear buffer beam unlike the Bachmann one.  As 9793 was obviously used on passenger services then battery boxes would probably have been fitted, most likely in (what I would call) an 'inset' position.  Some I have seen appear to be almost flush with the edge of the footplate.  A relatively simple job to reproduce these in plastic - but are there any close-ups or drawings available?

BTW, I was referring to the driver's side which in 'car terms' would be the offside.

Still ongoing with the High Level chassis build and using the Bachmann 8750 body to represent 9793, a Croes Newydd loco (as are most of my Western Region locos).  I'm currently trying to work out the pipe runs below the footplate on the offside.  From looking through photos in books there seems to be a variety of potential 'designs' and I'm not sure if the one portrayed by Bachmann is common.  Added to my 'problem' is the fact that I damaged to body slightly with an errant move of my soldering iron (don't ask!!) that inflicted damage to the pipe, valance and footplate edge by the cab steps.  I've made this good but it made me question the validity of the Bachmann design as I have to replace a length of pipe from just in front of the steps where there is a convenient moulded 'clamp' to disguise the join.  I'm assuming that the most common variant is for the pipe to run full length and then curve down to run below the buffer beam to the rear vacuum pipe.  The Bachmann one doesn't do this, it curves down between the steps and the buffer beam.  I can find plenty of photos taken of the nearside of 8750 panniers but ones of the offside all seem a bit 'vague'. Any assistance gratefully received!

I'm also interested in the (what I assume to be) battery boxes below both sides of the rear footplate on some locos.  The position (or even existence) of these seems to vary between locos so are there any 'rules' about these?  Did 9793 carry them?  Finding a photo of specific panniers is a bit of a lottery in some ways so some of this particular loco would be a bonus.  However, I've discovered that it features in a very nice Phillip Hawkins painting of the inside of CN shed so it isn't totally anonymous.

As a lifelong GWR believer I feel a bit embarrassed about asking what on the face of it appears to be a very simple question but I don't pretend to know everything