Colin parks

Sorry number6! What about "very fine, unpainted model" then?! (I read somewhere that the chassis of this loco was silver too.) Re. Lazerglaze, how does it stay in place? I have had enough trouble with some of my scratch-built EMUs losing the odd quarter light to be circumspect about the merits of replacing the Hornby glazing.

Hi Howard Re. the Ford accident: the 2 BILs involved were 2069 and 2100. I had also been studying photos of the later Barnham derailment involving unit 2088, but they of little use as the unit had a 2 HAL trailer at the time. All the best, Colin

DTC roof sketch roughed out using Dave's and Frank's photos as references. Also used was the Nick Campling drawing. The vents are shown as being where I have already put them. Below is the DMBS sketch - work in progress. The lighting conduit over the compartments has been drawn as per the model's tooling. It looks right. Things to note re. the DTC roof: course of water filler pipes; mushroom vent and lamp top over toilet; 'centre' lighting conduit takes a big turn to avoid the water tank filler cap; compartment side lighting conduit goes across and joins the 'centre' over the leading compartment; train control conduit terminates on roof next to cab vent; power line conduit is as Hornby tooling and the train control conduit goes into centre junction box at inner end. Lighting conduits never ran into centre junction boxes. But then again, I could be wrong! Colin

Hi Ian, Thanks for the pictures of the vents. If you have the time, it would be interesting to see photo of them viewed from the top as the width of the cowl is the crucial point. They are about the same in profile as the Branchlines ones which I have used on all my scratch-built EMUs. Meanwhile, I have solved the lamp conduit puzzle as to how the conduits miss the water tank filler caps. I shall be drawing out the true course of these pesky things and posting the sketch-plans here later on. All the best, Colin

It was due to a late night carving up a 2 BIL = brain freeze! Colin

Oops, sorry Lee!

Hi Ceptic, Re. the vents, you are right! The spacing of the vents stayed the same throughout the whole 2 BIL series, but the last 36 were moved. I can only think that some internal longitudinal roof framing prevented them from being installed at exactly dead-centre. All the best. Colin

Hi Howard, Thanks for your advice re. vents. I am now 'concerned' about the cab fronts too, but that is a job too far for me. I will have scout about the web for vents later. Now it's back to the 'wall' for me! All the best, Colin

Hi Dave, I have the MRC drawings thanks to Clive Mortimore and Ceptic. Yes, the vents are more regular on the drawing and so are the prototypes' ones - all batches. The drawing is not that of the last batch for the Reading line electrification scheme, as the vents were moved over towards the centre-line of the roof on those units. Even more interesting, and mentioned by bassettloko in post #69 of this topic, is the angle of the cab front: The official drawing you have posted, Nick Campling's in the MRC, Andy Mullins' drawing supplied by Branchlines, and the Ian Kirk kit itself (albeit with its over-width centre panel) all have a (much) sharper angle on the cab front than the Hornby Model. Now angles remain constant, so there can be little doubt about this discrepancy. No, I am not going to re-build the cab! I see you are tempting me there with that second plan! I have seen a very fine part-built model here http://scalerail.phpbbhosts.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=442&start=50 One page one is a very, very good Kirk 2 BIL exuding character in bucketloads. It will make your eyes pop out! All the best, Colin

Hi Brian, Just stopped for lunch. It is so hot here I wouldn't want to be modelling now anyway! Re. taking the 'middle way': I did think to trying to remove the vents and lighting conduit, leaving the control and power line conduits in place. It really didn't seem to be possible to then make a smooth job of the roof. The replacement of the vents was meant to be an operation done in passing whilst changing the lamp tops. It seems to be taking on much larger proportions (excuse my pun there!). All the best, Colin

Hi Dave, Just seen your message before trudging off into the garden. I have studied the first image at length it comes for 'A Southern Electric Story' . I really don't think it should be published here but thanks anyway. (Hope they are not owned by Getty Images, or someone will be getting a nasty bill!) The picture of shows in particular, a line of units headed by 2 BIL 2152 - as you know, the very last one. It can be seen that the vents are just off-centre to the compartment side. Behind that is a 2 HAL. It has its vents along the centre-line of the roof on the DMBS and centred over compartments on the DTC (nearer the camera). the next two units are harder to make out, but appear to be 2 BILs in the series somewhere between 2011-2115. the middle row is headed by another later unit, pity about that gantry obscuring the number! Behind that, a 2 HAL, followed by a late series 2 BIL then another 2 HAL. All this can be made out by knowing where the roof vents were positioned on particular types of unit. The second picture shows unit 2002 from the first ten 2 BILs which are 'pre-production' so to speak - as for differences between them and the main batches, don't even go there! All the best, Colin

Just ones last shot of the DTC with all its (provisional, Howard!) vents in place, and as yet not fixed. I'm dry-stone walling in the garden for the rest of the day, so if I have any fingers left unbroken after that, the DMBS will be tackled later on. Colin

Hi Andy thanks for the link. I have had a look, but they appear to be of the round variety. The see through ones sound appealing. I wonder what shape they are? All the best, Colin

Hmm. I see what you mean Very Concerned of East Midlands! Taking note of your comments, I have taken some shots to compare the original moulded-on vent and the brass ones. The brass ones are a little narrow and I could change them for something with a wider cowl if I knew where to get them. Now.the brass ones look a little hand-made in this enlargement, but do have the better side profile. The 'shadow' left on the roof from the removal of the moulded-on vents is slightly larger than you would expect as it includes the relief-angle of the moulding. The moulded-on ones just don't look right from any angle to me, (excepting looking straight down on the roof perhaps). As for position proportion shape, an old musicians' saying comes to mind: "The wrong note in the right place is half right - the right note in the wrong place is all wrong!" So bearing in mind that I am not just plonking all the new vents in the position of the old ones (except for three on the DMBS and eight over the first class compartments), I shall carry on with the drilling and leave the new vents as a press-fit for now to see if any better shaped ones can be found. All the best, Not Complacent of Wales (Edited following the study of the Nick Campling drawing. The Position of the first class vents on the model is exactly right for units 2117-52)

Nice work Sean. Also had time to lay the ballast too! All the best, Colin

Thanks to Clive Mortimore for further information on the 2 BIL! Now, I made a start on the installation of the torpedo vents ont he DTC. It has been decided to set the vents in a more evenly spaced row, keeping to the line taken by the ones removed from the model. The cab vent is now on the centre-line of the roof - where it should be on all 'production' 2 BILs. The vents are now pitched at approx. 12.5mm centres over the third/second class compartments with a distance of approx. 13.5mm to the next pair. I haven't got to the first class area of the DTC yet, so will advise on the measurements there when they are worked out. Tomorrow the extraneous bits need to be removed from the DBMS roof. Colin

Hi Dave, Many thanks for posting those pictures. I had not seen them before and they will be most useful for reference in the days ahead. While they show 2090, which has a different arrangement on the roof, the components are quite clear to be seen. The lamp tops are set lower in the row towards the centre, the water pipes do approach the tank by a series of right-angle bends and the DTC's cab vent is smack on the roof centre-line. I suppose the differing water strips is down to how they were nailed on post re-canvassing of the roofs. There seems to be a distinct lack of fixings showing on the window frames of 2090. The frames appear to be Alpax ones. All the best, Colin

Hi Dave, Nor can I. We must be getting old! Seriously though, please send whatever you have. All the best, Colin

Hostilities have really begun now, starting with the DTC's roof first: The filler pipes are going to be replaced and also get in the way for the next process, so off they came. The cap on the filler tank is just a press-fit and easily levered off. Next, the stand-alone conduit knobs are firmly pushed out from the inside (the same applies to removing the filler pipes from the inner ends). Just the gentlest of strokes with the knife blade held flat against the roof and the conduit etc. can be carefully shaved away. The position of the DTC's cab vent can be seen just above my finger tip. All 'production' 2 BILs, without exception, had their cab vents on, or just off, the centre-line on the DTC cab roof just to the fore of the roof/cab joint. (That statement could come back to haunt me!) The DTC's roof after a rub down with wet and dry paper (used wet). To the left lay the tools of destruction. The power line and control conduits could, in theory have been kept, but would have made the task of removing the vents etc. much harder to do neatly. I have left the round moulded-on conduit supports (between the holes), as they are just the same as shape as I have fitted to my scratch-built EMUs. (Surely Hornby didn't take a peek at one of the topics did they?!) The inner end of the DTC. The toilet water tank filler cap has been taken off. A new one is going to be sited in line with the ventilators. This avoids the r/h lighting conduit running straight though it, which could never have been the case. The holes where the knobs were on the inner ends will be filled and new brackets made. It should be noted that all these photos relate only to the work of replacing fittings as per the last batch of 2 BILs. (Edit: apart from that bit about the DTC cab ventilator.) Colin

Hi Mike. I'm sure you are right about the common components. However, the parts would have been interchangeable on the 2 BILs up to Unit 2116 but not after that. Why the ventilators were moved on the last batch, resulting in the changes to conduit, perhaps we will never know. I have gone through all the photos I can on the web, and am absolutely certain that that the preserved unit 2090 has a different arrangement to that of my model, which is of course 2134. All the best, Colin

Too tired to do much actual work on the 2 BIL today. The new lamp irons have been fitted, made from .005" phosphor-bronze strip, force-fitted into a slotted hole, then bent at a right angle. The notches in the cab front over the coupling hook are done. Tomorrow I'll have to take a deep breath and start on the removal of the conduit and other roof features which are to be replaced. Colin

Hi Bertie, I think our posts are crossing here! On the subject of unit 2116, that was a one-off with an experimental all-steel roof fitted to test its durability. According to David Brown in his excellent book Southern Electric, unit 2116's roof was inspected thoroughly after WWII and found to be in good order. It proved to Bulleid/Lynes that all-steel roofs were reliable, hence the 'production' 4 SUBs came to be built. Your guess is as good as mine as to what layout was used on the roof, but my guess is that it was fitted with conduits and vents as per the previous 115 'production' 2 BILs. All the best, Colin

Hi Ian, Well, you got the character of the 2 BIL just right and as such the kit lends itself to being the subject of interesting detailing projects. My 'take' on your model has many self-inflicted mistakes, all of which could have been corrected if I had got around to it. My friend, Oldlugger is going to have the model, correct its faults and convert it to P4. So it will go on and on! I did know that you had sold the moulds to Colin Ashby and he did make small batches of kits that were always snapped up quickly. It seems that Coopercraft are now going to market the 2 BIL now, according to their website. All the best, Colin

Hi Bertie, I hadn't picked up on that problem with the Kirk kit and just built it as per the instructions! The Hornby model measures up well and is less wedge-shaped at the front. That seems to be correct. All the best, Colin

Hi Frank, Thanks for all the information you have supplied on the subject of 2 BIL roofs! Your pictures show the route which the toilet water tank filler pipes take to avoid the mushroom vent and toilet lamp top. (Yes, I know they are missing, but it just means less to cut off for me.) I shall stick to having two pairs of filler pipes, as that is the condition a blue liveried 2 BIL would have been in, but make new ones to match the pictures. Of more concern is the lack of news on the Southern Pride order. At this rate, the project will be held up by the lack of these components. All the best, Colin