Erudhalion

Background As those few of you who have read some of my previous posts know, over the past few years I have been building stock appropriate for the Forest of Dean in the early '20s. As mining was traditionally the largest industry of the area, a huge proportion of the rolling stock in period photos are PO mineral wagons, generally built by the Gloucester Railway Carriage and Wagon Company. Broadly speaking, the wagons owned by the collieries themselves were 10t or 12t end door types, while the coal merchants favoured fixed end types. When it comes to models, Cambrian makes GRC&W 10t fixed end and 12t end door kits, both with wooden solebars, of which I've built a few. Recently Brassmasters has also added 3D printed bodies to their range to go with their brass underframes, but I haven't tried them out, as although I'm sure they make are fine models, they are quite expensive when compared to plastic kits. The problem for me was that, judging by the excellent Severn & Wye Railway books by Ian Pope et al., from which I got all of the photos I have based my drawings on, the most commonly used type of wagon used by the collieries was of the 10t end door kind, which I couldn't find a kit for. I had considered whether kitbashing the Cambrian kits could produce results, but after perusing a few websites, I decided that I could easily obtain all the bits, such as W-irons and brake gear, which would enable me to scratchbuild whatever wagon I liked. I thought it would be a quick and easy task to produce a CAD plan of a 10t end door wagon, but the more I looked at photos the more I discovered that there actually were quite a variety, with differing strapping patterns, number of planks and kinds of underframe. So I set about making drawings for each type, which I have presented below. Some aspects are a bit speculative, generally because of the quality of the photos: while the GRC&W works photos are very crisp and detailed, some of photos of the wagons in the wild are not quite to that standard, plus the scanning process has inevitably produced slight distortions. I have assumed that the wheelbase is 9' for all wagons, and worked out the solebar length from there, assuming it is either 15' or 16'. The details on the ends are often hard to determine, so I have based them on the Cambrian kits. I have also only drawn the parts of the wagons that need scratchbuilding, so the brake gear, W irons, buffers etc. have only been sketched in. 7-Plank Wagons These wagons all have 7 equal width planks and wooden 15' solebars and headstocks, side doors 5 planks deep with T-shaped catches on the 2nd plank from the top, and J shaped strapping on either side of the door. Most but not all have one set of brake gear. Variant A The inside diagonal strapping on the sides is secured to the outside of the corner plates on the ends. The end door pivot goes through the topmost plank on the sides and is connected to a full-height piece of strapping. The end door sometimes has a pair of inclined handles between the fourth and fifth plank from the top, and al feature a V-shaped vee-hanger. Variant B Outside diagonal strapping fixed directly to corner plates. End-door pivot sits in a cutout in the topmost plank and is connected to its own short piece of strapping, next to the full-height one. End door sometimes has diagonal handles. Door spring fitted centrally between arms of V-shaped vee-hanger. Variant C Only one photo of this variant, branded Speech House, in an unusual light coloured (yellow?) livery, so it was probably a special wagon of some kind. Outside diagonal strapping, end door hinge through topmost plank and connected to diagonal strap and full-height J-shaped vertical strap. Additional short strapping on the sides around end door catch. Cylindrical cover between the side door hinges. Vee-hanger with parallel ends, handles on solebar between ends of crown plates rather than outside them. 6-Plank Wagons The lower four planks are the same depth as 7 plank wagons, while the top two planks are deeper. The end door pivot is supported above the wagon sides by two short bars which seem to be bent inwards, although the exact shape is a bit hard to determine. The short bar is bolted to the top of the vertical strapping. The side door is still 5 planks deep, and held closed by catches to the side. All have inside diagonal strapping secured through the corner plates at the fixed end. Most of these also appear to have only the one set of brake gear. Variant A Wooden 15' solebars and headstocks, J-shaped strapping either side of the side door, presumably with the lower end bolted to the diagonal strapping. V-shaped vee-hangers. Variant B Steel 15' solebars and thinner steel headstock, all vertical strapping bends around the bottom of the sides and is secured to the solebars. The lower ends of the diagonal strapping are secured with bolts which protrude below the wagon floor outside the solebars. The detail on the fixed end more uncertain, there seem to be some bolt heads between the corner plates, but unlike the wagons with wooden underframes, the two vertical wooden beams are absent. Parallel-ended vee-hangers. The 7 and 6 plank varieties are by far the most common, but there were also one photo of a 5 plank wagon and one of a 4 plank. The 4 plank wagon in particular is quite different from all the others, and seems to me might be an older style of wagon. 5-Plank Wagon The planking on the sides seems to go deep, medium, shallow, shallow, medium, top to bottom. Having only one photo, I can't tell if this is correct. Wooden 15' underframe with parallel-ended vee-hangers and brakes on one side only. 4 plank-deep side door with T-shaped catches on the topmost plank. End door pivot like 6 plank wagons, but the pivot supports are more sharply bent over the top of the sides. Outside diagonal strapping going over the corner plates and the vertical strapping by the door. The diagonal straps are kinked outwards to accommodate this. At the open end, the diagonal straps pass under the end of the pivot supports. 4-Plank Wagon A lot of features about this wagon are speculative, it is hard to tell from the photo even if it has an end door. As one end doesn't seem to be arched and the same end doesn't look like it has corner plates, it seems likely that it has an end door. 4 deep planks with the side door 3 planks deep, T-shaped catches on the topmost plank. Wooden 16' underframe with apparently steel headstocks and V-shaped vee-hangers and brakes on both sides. Narrow corner plates with a single row of bolts on the sides. Bolts for the diagonal strapping on the sides and all details concerning the end door and pivot are based on the 5- and 6-plank wagons as that side of the photo is not as clear. The fixed end is also almost invisible in the photo, so details are also speculative. So there you have it, that is what I was able to do with the photos I have available. I'm quite sure that there are inaccuracies here and there, apart from the speculative parts, I'll come back and correct them if I find any. It might be that this information is already out there somewhere, but I quite enjoyed the process of working things out, and I will eventually put some of it to use once I have finished building the loco to haul them. I haven't included any measurements, but the drawings are supposed to be to scale, and I do have the CAD files, should anyone want them, which can be scaled and measurements taken directly from them. Anyway, enough armchair (or to be more accurate, beanbag) modelling, I need to get my 2021 done.

Well, I've discovered why it was running so slowly... the battery I was using to test it was neary flat. With a fresh battery it now well, at least on straight track. Curves however, ate another matter. I've been testing it on a 430mm curve (around setrak 2nd radius) and it occasionally manages not to derail, as long as the body is on to keep thing on the track. I've got enough sideplay as far as I can see, so my plan of action is as follows: 1) Give the coupling rods a tiny amount of extra sideplay, as they seem to be flexing a little, and 2) Reduce the pressure the pickups exert on the leading and trailing wheels. I hope this will reduce the forces pushing the wheels sideways and cure the problem. Update: Success! It can now navigate 2nd radius curves without too many problems.

0.3mm, but as to the kind of metal I'm not entirely sure, it's the pickup wire that came with the kit. I would have said steel, but I took to solder reasonably well, which leads me to think it it might not be. I've just done some more testing and I think the slow running is mainly down to dirt on the wheel treads and the ancient Lima track I'm using. If I connect the battery directly to the pickups it runs fine, it is only if the wheels themselves are involved that it slows down.

I've got a box of heatshrink tubing which I was thinking of using for that purpose. Unfortunatley I left it in Italy and forgot to pick it up last time I was there. Very irritating. However, the pickups at the moment don't seem to touch the chassis, even accounting for any wiggling up or down caused by the wheels turning.

After much poking and probing, it turns out it was the pickups touching the frames and the brake rigging at various points. I ended up shortening the front pair and replacing the middle, amd now there are no shorts. However, it now runs rather slowly. It doesn't sound to me like the motor is struggling, and in fact if I connect the motor directly to the battery it runs faster. I think I might check the electrical resistance of the pickups to see if that is the problem.

The wheels are all insulated and the brakes don't touch the treads. The motor occasionally does move a bit, but stops immediately, so it doesn't look like it is due to things being accidentally soldered together. Update: The thick plottens: I've removed the wheels and gearbox, and now the motor runs fine when I touch the battery to the pickups.

Back from a bit of a break from railway modelling, was in Italy over easter and visited Texel (very nice, if a bit bracing at the end of March). I'm back on the chassis at the moment. After having seen the chassis @St Enodoc is building, I realised thatmy chassis was devoid of sanding gear, so I bent up a few bits of 0.7mm brass rod and soldered them in place. Then I got to work on the pickups, which I found extremely fiddly, but I managed to make something that looked ok to me. I soldered them in place and installed the wires between the bits of PCB and the motor, which might need securing to the gearbox in order to get the body on. I also soldered a couple of bits of scrap nickel silver to the sides of the gearbox to increase the bearing surface of the first gear. The instructions suggest securing the axle to the gearbox and having the gear free to rotate, but I found the gear is quite a tight fit on the axle, so decided to leav the axle rotating. Next I tested it with a 9v batter but, alas, there were no signs of life. This is what the pickup setup looks like (the bits of paper are insulating the pickups from the wheels as I try to locate the problem): A bit of probing with a multimeter revealed that the frames are live and thus shorting the motor out. At the moment I'm trying to locate the short.

If it's of any help, on my 2021 I fitted the brake shoes as close to the tread as I thought I could get away with, and the wheels are removeable, although it is quite fiddly. With the newer etched chassis I had to fit the brake shoes quite far from the frames themselves on the ends 0.7mm wire "stalks" in order to clear the flanges when the wheels move side to side. This gives the shoes a degree of flexibility which eases the removal of the wheels. Looking at your chassis, it occurres to me that I have forgotten the sanding gear completely. I don't think the instructions mention it at all, and I haven't come across any likely pieces in the kit. I'll have to make something up with brass rod.

Thank you very much, I'll check my chassis and see what the situation is.

I realise it isn't exactly the same product, but I've used Bircheood Casey Perma Blue (which is also meant for steel) on brass. It sort of works, but I seem to get thick black layer that chips easily if I leave it too long. I have used a cotton bud to rub it on and that works better, but the result isn't perfectly black, although good enough for coupling hooks and the like.

Just out of interest, what's the total amount of sideplay on your chassis? I was looking at my etched chassis on my 2021 the other day and wondering what kind of radius it could get round, and if I might need to increase the sideplay on the middle axle.

I assumed that was the case, because some of the parts don't seem to need to be the way they are for the pannier version. That is a useful tip, I was thinking of ordering some wagon and coach wheels from them, I'll add some injectors too.

I finally managed to get something done this weekend. I made a throatplate/motor support out of brass and soldered it on to the top of one of the frame spacers. I'm in the process of making a curved plasticard piece I will epoxy to the front of the throat plate, in order to close off the bottom of the boiler and hide the motor and flywheel completely. The reversing rod, sanding rods, handrails and toolbox to the running board went on next, followed by all the various tank fittings. I drilled all the way through any locating dimples (like the ones for the handrail knobs or the buffers for the tank fillers) so I didn't have to solder them from the outside. The instructions don't mention the four tank supports or the handrail knobs, but it seemed wise to do them at this stage so I could solder them from the inside. As I was doing this, I realised I should have done the same for the handrail knob at the top of the smokebox (and possibly the smokebox door darts too), but at this point they are inaccessible from the inside. The photo above also reveals the other less than ideal choice I made: soldering the injectors on at this stage. The castings are very fragile and because they are mounted between the running board with the overflow pipe gping through a hole in the running board itself, they made place the tanks in place very fiddly. Ine consequence of this is that the left hand injector got somewhat mangled in the assembly process and doesn't line up properly with the hole in the running board anyway, so that will need sorting out somehow. Having done all that, I fixed the chimney, dome and safety valves to the top of the boiler, and checked the clearance between it and the motor. It is a bit tighter than I hoped, but there is a small gap, so it should all work. (The photo looks like the motor touches the top, but that isn't the case, although I did file a bit of a dimple in the underside of the top of the boiler just in case.) After soldering the tanks and boiler top on, it is starting looking like a loco. Exciting! Although now that I'm looking at this photo, I've noticed some rather messy soldering of mine around the front corner of the tank. That will need tidying up. Having said that, I think I'm finally getting the hang of soldering whitemetal. I was a bit worried of melting holes in stuff, but I realised that you can actually leave the iron in contact with the metal for a pretty long time and get the solder to flow nicely.

The boiler is now fixed to the footplate. I've opted not to go for the opening firebox door, it seemed to me it would be too fiddly and fragile, maybe next time if I'm feeling braver. Everything seems to fit like I'd hoped, although the tanks aren't fixed in olace yet. The wires are just for testing purposes, I'll replace them with something thinner and I'll route them down the sides of the gearbox. One of the things I hadn't noticed before is that the front half of the cab floor is missing, presumably to make space for the recommended gearbox. My arrangement fits enirely under the floor and in the boiler, so I'll make a new floor to cover up the gap. I'm planning to go for an open cab, so I think it would be quite noticeable otherwise.

High Level was my first option, but if I remember correctly when I was looking they were having some supply line issues, and seeing how I was ordering some items from Wizard Models anyway, I thought I'd try the Comet gearboxes. Anyway, I've partially assembled the main boiler components and hacked away at a few bits at the back (before soldering, as suggested by @cctransuk) and it looks like everything will fit inside as I had hoped when I did the CAD drawings in the first post.

I can't remember why, but I didn't order the motor and gearbox from Branchlines when I ordered the kit a couple of years ago. I've gone with a Comet two-stage gearbox with the extender. Unfortunatley I can't drive the centre axle because there is a frame spacer in the way. I also soldered the extender to the main gearbox yesterday evening, so rear axle it is, at this point. If the central wheelset was driven, wouldn't that limit its side play? Would you have to give the leading and trailing axles more lateral slop to make up for it? That is a much better idea than mine, which was fixing something to the underside of the motor to close the hole in the boiler casting. I'll have to use plasticard though, I haven't got any brass or nickel silver of a suitable thickness.

After a reasonably fruitful evening a couple of days ago, I have got the footplate and splashers assembled. The footplate was not remotely flat, but I have got to a poit where I think it looks all right. There was a fair bit of hacking away at the inside of the splashers to get enough clearance for the wheels and crankpins, especially on the middle drivers. It all seems to be ok and to turn smoothly, but my testing facilities are a bit limited at the moment. Once I've worked out how I want to do the pickups I'll deploy my best German and see if I can use the test track in my local model shop. Before I do that though, I need to sort out the problem I mentioned in my previous post and make some space in the firebox area for the gearbox. Ideally, I would like the lower side of the motor to sit parallel to the running plate and at least aligned with where the bottom of the boiler should be, something like this: However, the rear end of the gearbox needs to go exactly where the back of the firebox, rear tank support and front of the cab are. These three pieces all need soldering together, and form a pretty substantial chunk of whitemetal, as you can see when I hold them together with tweezers. Without modification, with the back of the gearbox as far back as it goes, the motor has to lean forward like this: All going well, I should be able to file away the lower front portion of this chunk and fit everything in. I was also thinking that I could glue a curved piece of plasticard to the bottom of the motor to act as the bottom of the boiler barrel, obscuring the motor ad flywheel from view, but I'll have to wait and see if that is feasible. I can then solder the drive extender to the main gearbox, and think of a way of holding the motor and gearbox in the correct position while also allowing the body to be removed.

It has taken a while, but I have finally gathered all the bits I needed to get started. I went for the Poppy's Woodtech jig, and it did it's job very well, I thought. I also had to resort to fashioning my own crude imitation of a Markits wheel nut driver, as Wizard models hasn't had them in stock for a while. The chassis went together much more easily than I thought, and seems fairly free rolling. I somehow managed to swap the left and right frames, but luckily that doesn't seem to have caused serious issues. I didn't have the benefit of the half-etched locating slots for the rear guard irons as they are now on the inside, but I managed to fix them in the right position. However, the half etched detail on the brake and reverser brackets is also now on the inside, while there are some markings for CSB mountings on the outside which might need filling in. Next I tackled the gearbox. I had ordered a Mitsumi motor with the other black motor as a backup. THIS was lucky, as the Mitsumi transmographied into a 4 digit LCD display on its way here, and then the replacement got lost in the post. I encountered a couple of problems putting the gearbox together. The smallest helical gear is quite a tight fit on its axle. The instructions suggest leaving it loose and fixing the axle to the gearbox sides, but at the moment I've left the axle loose and it goes around with the gear. For some reason, I was forced to file back the inside faces of the bearings i order to slot middle gear between the sides of the gearbox. Luckily the drive extender went together without issues, although I did choose to file the lower corner back a bit to ensure that it would be covered by the ashpan when viewed from the side. For the moment the drive extender is free to rotate while I sort out the clearances in the body and decide on the position. I also ended up epoxying the motor to the gearbox, which was not what I would have ideally wanted, but considering that I couldn't find suitable mounting screws and was a bit concerned about drilling holes into the motor, it seemed the best solution. Once the other chassis details went on, I mounted the gearbox and tested the whole thing out. It was a little stiff at firss, but quickly loosened up with a few minutes of running. A quick test with some of the main body castings revealed that there is a lot of metal in the area where the boiler meets the cab front, which makes the vertical motor position I talked about in my original post totally unworkable. It also gets in the way of mounting the motor horizontally, but I think I can file away enough metal to get it to fit. I also still need to permanently fit the connecting rods, and think of the best way to attach the balance weights. Im leaning towards epoxy at the moment, but I don't know if there is a better way.

The Severn and Wye lines and other lines around the Forest of Dean did require low axle weights and reasonably short wheelbases, as far as I've seen, the 2021s were replaced by 16xx in BR days, and the only other classes I've seen photos of are Dean Goods and a single 14xx. I've been told by the Loco department at the Dean Forest Railway that the 57xx they've got is pretty much the limit as regards rigid wheelbase, and the current DFR line was part of the S&W main line back in the day, but if I remember correctly was relaid in preservation, so other parts of the network must have been even tighter and more lightly laid.

Thank you! That is great info, I didn't know about these books. Looking at the RCTS volume, it seems that 2024, 2032, 2041, 2068, 2069, 2084, 2087, 2093 all had B4 boilers and pannier tanks at the time, so any of them are potential identities for my kit. A quick search hasn't turned up any photos of the locos in question in pre war years, but I have found this picture, dated 1933, which has lots of interesting details. The same site actually has a couple of photos of 2021s in the Forest of Dean, but both are saddle tanks and date back to the end of the 19th century.

As I slowly gather together all the bits I need to actually start building, I have been thinking about potential identities for the loco. The Nucast kit represents an engine with a B4 boiler (RCTS classification), and my general aim over the past few years has been to build stock appropriate for a hypothetical layout set in rhe Forest of Dean in the early 20s. A quick leaf through RCTS Locomotives of the GWR volume 5 shows a number of possible 2021s whitch had pannier tanks and B4 boilers in the appropriate time frame. The kit comes with four different number plates, and of these, 2076 fits the criteria (fitted with a B4 boiler in June 1921 and pannier tanks in July 1921). It would be nice to know which engines were allocated to Lydney in this time period, but as far as I can tell, the only way to find out is consulting the National Archive at Kew, which isn't really a practical plan at the moment. I'm wondering how long engines remained allocated to the same shed, and weather it would be reasonable to assume an engine known to be in a certain location at a certain date would have been there 10 or so years earlier. This thread has some info about the 1901 allocation, but that is all I can find. A picture from the period would also help. I have found plenty from the BR period, both in the S&W books by Ian Pope et al. and online, but photos from the 20's seem very scarce.

Life, as ever, gets in the way of the serious stuff. This time it was, in rough chrinological order, a new job, a trip to Korea, a subsequent move to Düsseldorf, and marriage. However, things have now settled down a bit, and I have got back to modelling, although, alas, I had to get rid of the nice workbench I had made. Since my last post, the brakevan had progressed to the point depicted in the photo, when I was forced to stop due to the lack of handrail wire and an appropriate tube for the chimney. I have ordered the wire from Wizard together witha few other bits for the next project, which will be the 2021 pannier I ordered over a year ago. The kit went together well, I thought, and my soldering was, for the most part, not as messy as I feared, and my newly aquired glass fiber pen can probably sort out the worst of it. The fret supplied in the kit is very similar, but not identical, to the one assumed by the instructions, and as far as I can see some pieces are missing. Luckily my wife has donated some nickel silver sheets left over from her uni days to the project, so I should be able to make some replacements for the missing components. I am still missing the buffers, which will need ordering from mjt at some point. The ones supplied in the kit are nice turned brass items, but a bit generic for my liking. Hopefully, the brake van will finally come together over the next few days/weeks.

I had a look at the Hobby Holidays website, and the jig does look very good, but as far as I can see rather beyond what I can justify spending at the moment. Has anyone ttriethe Poppy's Woodtech Jig? That looks decent, and much more in line with my current budget. Alternatively, I'm wondering if I could build something myself, although I'd have to source some 1/8" bar from somwhere.

The first box of bits has arrived, with the gearbox, flywheel, sprung buffers, handrails wire and fire irons. The motors should be on their way. I'm wondering about the axle alignment jigs, I know London Road Models sell sets, and Poppy's Woodtech do a plywood jig, but I was wondering if there are other alternatives I hadn't considered.

I'll measure the chassis I've got in the kit to see. The frets include both jointed and solid coupling rods, but it is designed to work with High Level hornblocks, so I imagine the jointed ones are for that. Luckily I ordered Markits wheels with the kit. Why I didn't also ask for a gearbox and motor at the time though escapes me... I've got a piece of glass I use for checking wagon chassis, but I'll have to get hold of some axle alignment jigs.