Erudhalion

...and we are back to where we were, only with a significantly straighter footplate, a slightly lower top of the boiler and new brass injectors, whistles and smokebox darts (all from Alan Gibson).

The only casualties are a snapper reverser and a slightly bent left hand tank-top handrail, courtesy of the tank falling off the shelf.

The footplate is still not perfect, but it is much better, and importantly not twisted along its length as it was before. It even looks like the cab-side dimples for the handrail knobs line up with the ones in the tanks.

All in all I am reasonably happy with the results, it is a definite improvement on the previous attempt. There are a few small gaps around the joint between the firebox top and the tanks, so I might need to splash out on some filler, but that can wait for now.

Now for fitting the cab and bunker.

'Tis done.

I didn't disassemble everything, the various tank gubbins are still in place, as is the dome and a few other bits, but I can start again from the footplate.

Update: Now I look at it, I think I've found the problem. I had soldered the boiler/tank top so it had a bit of a gap between it and the top of the smokebox, because the front edge matched up better, and this lead to the tanks having to be raised at the back to keep them level.

I have been looking and measuring and wondering what to do.

The boiler pitch as stated in the RCTS volumes is 6' 0 3/4", increased to 6' 3 3/4" from 2041 or 2061. These scale to 24.25mm and 25.25mm. Assuming these are measured from the tops of the rails, on my model it is 25mm. Comparing the relative positions of the tank brackets and and springs between my model and the photo on the box, it looks to me like the boiler should sit about 1mm lower, which also matches up with the issues I've got with the cab.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards towards separating the whole boiler assembly and starting from scratch.

I imagine this could be done by boiling the whole lot in a saucepan of water, but I'll do a test with some scraps first.

Thanks for all the helpful advice.

I think it is fair to say that either I didn't straighten it properly at the start, or I managed to bend the footplate after i had started building the body.

I have managed to mostly straighten it out, and I think that the bunker is mostly ok, it needs a little more fettling so it sits right, it is a little tight at the moment, but the gap between it and the footplate is smaller than it was.

The cab concerns me more, because it almost seems like the boiler is sitting too high on the footplate. This would explain why the handrail knob locations on the cab side don't line up properly and why there is so little space between the tank tops and the bottom of the cab windows.

You are right, it isn't quite straight and level. I will try and correct it as much as possible, and that might help a bit.

However, the problem with the bunker and cab is more to do with the fact that the bottom of the two don't sit on the same level. I lined up the tops of the back and sides of both cab and bunker because I didn't want gaps under the roof or steps in the corners of the bunker.

I already have a set of fire irons, or I might have gone for that set.

I'll try out with a piece of paper to see if I can work out what I'm supposed to do, and if that fails I'll just bend them up by hand.

Here are a few pics after yesterday's efforts:

The cab and bunker are both in one piece, but they aren't soldered to the footplate yet. In the second pic you can see the new cab floor with the springs which I removed from the origonal pieces which were meant to be attached to the boiler.

The right-hand side of of the bunker wasn't quite the right shape and left a bit of a gap where it was meant to form the corner above the flared section, but I managed to fill the gap with solder and file it into shape.

One problem remains, however: neither the cab nor the bunker sit properly on the footplate:

With the bunker I'm the right hand side and the back sit fine, but as you can see, there is a bit of a gap on the left. I could either file down at the back and on the right until it all looks good, but I risk losing the lines of rivets around the bottom. An alternative is to solder it as it is and fill the gap with solder and if necessary file it so it isn't too obvious.

On the cab, things are a little more complex as I still need to mount a handrail knob to the cab side which is meant to line up with the ones on the tanks. If the cab sides were to be resting on the footplate, these handrail knobs would be too low. There is also the fact that there isn't that much space between the bottom of the windows in the spectacle plate and the top of the tanks.

The gaps here are bigger too so if I fill them with something it would be more obvious, so I'm not sure of the best way to solve the issue.

I've also hacked off the old injectors, and have ordered some brass ones from Alan Gibson, as well as brass door darts and whistles.

14 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

What would result if you curved the strips in opposite directions at the two 'fold' lines - would that produce the reverse curve of the fire-iron hooks?

Maybe the short end needs to be bent about 90° in one direction to form the part that goes into the locating hole, while longer part needs to be bent the other way to form the hook.

That might work, but I'm still not entirely sure.

I am presented with a bit of a conundrum.

This is the piece out of which I'm supposed to form the three fire iron supports for the back of the bunker. The instructions simply state "fold up the fire iron supports". There is this drawing as well:

I might be missing something, but I'm not sure how to go about this, considering that if I follow the diagram literally, I'm going to end up with six angular hooks.

I've cut out one of the six strips to try folding one and see if it looks promising, but it doesn't.

My only idea is that maybe if I fold the outer strips along the half etched areas, that will bend the strips into the proper round hook shape, bit if anyone can shed some light on this, I would be very grateful.

Not much progress over the past few days, I do have this rather inclement closeup of the cab front/boiler backhead, which I will try and tidy up before soldering to the body.

There were two options, one with smaller windows and this one with larger ones. Looking at period photos, this one looks like it was by far the most common, at least on the pannier tanks.

I soldered on the variuous details provided in the kit (lubricator, regulator, gauge glass) but had to fabricate a new regulator handle, as I think there was a casting flaw on that piece.

I also fabricated a firehole door to close the hole provided for the original gearbox. It isn't exactly to scale, but it gives an impression. I think it will look fine once the crew is in the cab as well.

I will probably have some more gaps to fill, as it doesn't seem like the bevels on the bottom match up with the splashers all that well.

Well, I've discovered why it was running so slowly... the battery I was using to test it was neary flat.

With a fresh battery it now well, at least on straight track. Curves however, ate another matter.

I've been testing it on a 430mm curve (around setrak 2nd radius) and it occasionally manages not to derail, as long as the body is on to keep thing on the track.

I've got enough sideplay as far as I can see, so my plan of action is as follows:

1) Give the coupling rods a tiny amount of extra sideplay, as they seem to be flexing a little, and

2) Reduce the pressure the pickups exert on the leading and trailing wheels.

I hope this will reduce the forces pushing the wheels sideways and cure the problem.

Update: Success! It can now navigate 2nd radius curves without too many problems.

58 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

Talking of which - what size of wire are you using?  Phosphor bronze  I assume?

0.3mm, but as to the kind of metal I'm not entirely sure, it's the pickup wire that came with the kit. I would have said steel, but I took to solder reasonably well, which leads me to think it it might not be.

I've just done some more testing and I think the slow running is mainly down to dirt on the wheel treads and the ancient Lima track I'm using. If I connect the battery directly to the pickups it runs fine, it is only if the wheels themselves are involved that it slows down.

I've got a box of heatshrink tubing which I was thinking of using for that purpose. Unfortunatley I left it in Italy and forgot to pick it up last time I was there. Very irritating.

However, the pickups at the moment don't seem to touch the chassis, even accounting for any wiggling up or down caused by the wheels turning.

After much poking and probing, it turns out it was the pickups touching the frames and the brake rigging at various points. I ended up shortening the front pair and replacing the middle, amd now there are no shorts.

However, it now runs rather slowly. It doesn't sound to me like the motor is struggling, and in fact if I connect the motor directly to the battery it runs faster. I think I might check the electrical resistance of the pickups to see if that is the problem.

The wheels are all insulated and the brakes don't touch the treads.

The motor occasionally does move a bit, but stops immediately, so it doesn't look like it is due to things being accidentally soldered together.

Update: The thick plottens: I've removed the wheels and gearbox, and now the motor runs fine when I touch the battery to the pickups.

Back from a bit of a break from railway modelling, was in Italy over easter and visited Texel (very nice, if a bit bracing at the end of March).

I'm back on the chassis at the moment. After having seen the chassis @St Enodoc is building, I realised thatmy chassis was devoid of sanding gear, so I bent up a few bits of 0.7mm brass rod and soldered them in place.

Then I got to work on the pickups, which I found extremely fiddly, but I managed to make something that looked ok to me. I soldered them in place and installed the wires between the bits of PCB and the motor, which might need securing to the gearbox in order to get the body on. I also soldered a couple of bits of scrap nickel silver to the sides of the gearbox to increase the bearing surface of the first gear. The instructions suggest securing the axle to the gearbox and having the gear free to rotate, but I found the gear is quite a tight fit on the axle, so decided to leav the axle rotating.

Next I tested it with a 9v batter but, alas, there were no signs of life.

This is what the pickup setup looks like (the bits of paper are insulating the pickups from the wheels as I try to locate the problem):

A bit of probing with a multimeter revealed that the frames are live and thus shorting the motor out. At the moment I'm trying to locate the short.

If it's of any help, on my 2021 I fitted the brake shoes as close to the tread as I thought I could get away with, and the wheels are removeable, although it is quite fiddly.

With the newer etched chassis I had to fit the brake shoes quite far from the frames themselves on the ends 0.7mm wire "stalks" in order to clear the flanges when the wheels move side to side. This gives the shoes a degree of flexibility which eases the removal of the wheels.

Looking at your chassis, it occurres to me that I have forgotten the sanding gear completely. I don't think the instructions mention it at all, and I haven't come across any likely pieces in the kit. I'll have to make something up with brass rod.

6 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Right, the sideplay on the middle axle with the reduced bearing flanges is 1.7mm and on the leading and trailing axles with the full bearing flanges it is 0.7mm.

 

Hope that helps.

Thank you very much, I'll check my chassis and see what the situation is.

40 minutes ago, polybear said:

Can anyone tell me if Birchwood Casey Super Blue will actually work on a brass chassis please - the bottle suggests it's intended for steel.  Thanks

I realise it isn't exactly the same product, but I've used Bircheood Casey Perma Blue (which is also meant for steel) on brass. It sort of works, but I seem to get thick black layer that chips easily if I leave it too long. I have used a cotton bud to rub it on and that works better, but the result isn't perfectly black, although good enough for coupling hooks and the like.

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

[...] The minimum radius 2182 will have to traverse is 670mm on the Wheal Veronica branch and earlier testing suggested that was a bit tight. After filing there's about another 1mm of sideplay. [...]

Just out of interest, what's the total amount of sideplay on your chassis?

I was looking at my etched chassis on my 2021 the other day and wondering what kind of radius it could get round, and if I might need to increase the sideplay on the middle axle.

12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Originated with Sutherland/Cotswold rather than K's though.

 

I expect the design was so they could use many of the same parts for both the Pannier and Saddle Tank versions.

 

 

Jason

I assumed that was the case, because some of the parts don't seem to need to be the way they are for the pannier version.

20 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

For the injectors, I used lost wax castings from Alan Gibson.

That is a useful tip, I was thinking of ordering some wagon and coach wheels from them, I'll add some injectors too.

I finally managed to get something done this weekend.

I made a throatplate/motor support out of brass and soldered it on to the top of one of the frame spacers. I'm in the process of making a curved plasticard piece I will epoxy to the front of the throat plate, in order to close off the bottom of the boiler and hide the motor and flywheel completely.

The reversing rod, sanding rods, handrails and toolbox to the running board went on next, followed by all the various tank fittings. I drilled all the way through any locating dimples (like the ones for the handrail knobs or the buffers for the tank fillers) so I didn't have to solder them from the outside.

The instructions don't mention the four tank supports or the handrail knobs, but it seemed wise to do them at this stage so I could solder them from the inside. As I was doing this, I realised I should have done the same for the handrail knob at the top of the smokebox (and possibly the smokebox door darts too), but at this point they are inaccessible from the inside.

The photo above also reveals the other less than ideal choice I made: soldering the injectors on at this stage. The castings are very fragile and because they are mounted between the running board with the overflow pipe gping through a hole in the running board itself, they made place the tanks in place very fiddly. Ine consequence of this is that the left hand injector got somewhat mangled in the assembly process and doesn't line up properly with the hole in the running board anyway, so that will need sorting out somehow.

Having done all that, I fixed the chimney, dome and safety valves to the top of the boiler, and checked the clearance between it and the motor.

It is a bit tighter than I hoped, but there is a small gap, so it should all work. (The photo looks like the motor touches the top, but that isn't the case, although I did file a bit of a dimple in the underside of the top of the boiler just in case.)

After soldering the tanks and boiler top on, it is starting looking like a loco. Exciting!

Although now that I'm looking at this photo, I've noticed some rather messy soldering of mine around the front corner of the tank. That will need tidying up.

Having said that, I think I'm finally getting the hang of soldering whitemetal. I was a bit worried of melting holes in stuff, but I realised that you can actually leave the iron in contact with the metal for a pretty long time and get the solder to flow nicely.

The boiler is now fixed to the footplate. I've opted not to go for the opening firebox door, it seemed to me it would be too fiddly and fragile, maybe next time if I'm feeling braver.

Everything seems to fit like I'd hoped, although the tanks aren't fixed in olace yet. The wires are just for testing purposes, I'll replace them with something thinner and I'll route them down the sides of the gearbox.

One of the things I hadn't noticed before is that the front half of the cab floor is missing, presumably to make space for the recommended gearbox. My arrangement fits enirely under the floor and in the boiler, so I'll make a new floor to cover up the gap. I'm planning to go for an open cab, so I think it would be quite noticeable otherwise.

4 hours ago, micklner said:

I cannot see how the current set up will work without a lot of cutting and ending up with a exposed motor/gearbox. Keep the motor/gearbox for a much bigger Loco.

As already said look at the High Level Models site. Use a 1015 motor positioned vertically and a Roadrunner plus Gearbox. This can be set in any postion you wish.

High Level was my first option, but if I remember correctly when I was looking they were having some supply line issues, and seeing how I was ordering some items from Wizard Models anyway, I thought I'd try the Comet gearboxes.

Anyway, I've partially assembled the main boiler components and hacked away at a few bits at the back (before soldering, as suggested by @cctransuk) and it looks like everything will fit inside as I had hoped when I did the CAD drawings in the first post.

16 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Are you using the recommended motor and g/b? It looks like a High Level g/b.  Can you drive the centre axle by swinging the extender forward under the motor?

 

Personally I usually build the body first, ensuring that the foot plate is flat and straight.  Then find how much room I have and which axle to drive in order to select a motor g/b combination.  For an 0-6-0 it's best to try to drive the centre axle which then requires less play in the coupling rod holes.

I can't remember why, but I didn't order the motor and gearbox from Branchlines when I ordered the kit a couple of years ago. I've gone with a Comet two-stage gearbox with the extender.

Unfortunatley I can't drive the centre axle because there is a frame spacer in the way. I also soldered the extender to the main gearbox yesterday evening, so rear axle it is, at this point.

If the central wheelset was driven, wouldn't that limit its side play? Would you have to give the leading and trailing axles more lateral slop to make up for it?

3 hours ago, Barclay said:

Hi a dodge I frequently employ is to ditch the boiler supplied and attach a brass boiler to the chassis, it makes the motor invisible when the body is fitted.

 

 

3 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Indeed, this is a good ruse, one I first employed with a High Level 74XX chassis kit.

 

I then did the same when assembling the NuCast Partners 16XX chassis kit:

 

That is a much better idea than mine, which was fixing something to the underside of the motor to close the hole in the boiler casting. I'll have to use plasticard though, I haven't got any brass or nickel silver of a suitable thickness.

After a reasonably fruitful evening a couple of days ago, I have got the footplate and splashers assembled. The footplate was not remotely flat, but I have got to a poit where I think it looks all right.

There was a fair bit of hacking away at the inside of the splashers to get enough clearance for the wheels and crankpins, especially on the middle drivers. It all seems to be ok and to turn smoothly, but my testing facilities are a bit limited at the moment. Once I've worked out how I want to do the pickups I'll deploy my best German and see if I can use the test track in my local model shop.

Before I do that though, I need to sort out the problem I mentioned in my previous post and make some space in the firebox area for the gearbox. Ideally, I would like the lower side of the motor to sit parallel to the running plate and at least aligned with where the bottom of the boiler should be, something like this:

However, the rear end of the gearbox needs to go exactly where the back of the firebox, rear tank support and front of the cab are. These three pieces all need soldering together, and form a pretty substantial chunk of whitemetal, as you can see when I hold them together with tweezers.

Without modification, with the back of the gearbox as far back as it goes, the motor has to lean forward like this:

All going well, I should be able to file away the lower front portion of this chunk and fit everything in. I was also thinking that I could glue a curved piece of plasticard to the bottom of the motor to act as the bottom of the boiler barrel, obscuring the motor ad flywheel from view, but I'll have to wait and see if that is feasible.

I can then solder the drive extender to the main gearbox, and think of a way of holding the motor and gearbox in the correct position while also allowing the body to be removed.