chaz

Here's mine. One of the first wagons I built and (I think) my second etched brass kit (a doddle after the J50!). I might have overdone the rust a bit, but I hate glaring white handrails on brake vans. Chaz

Couldn't agree more BUT my problem is how much later later is!

Crikkey, Pat, I was going to say you're up late and then I spotted your location. I avoid "good old Baker's Fluid" - I only ever use it if I want to solder to steel, it's so aggressive it will turn tools bright orange if it gets anywhere near them. If you have a soldering station you should have no further problems with adding white metal to brass. I set mine to 165 degrees. This is just below the melting point for most of our castings but hot enough to get the solder flowing nicely.. Thanks Pat. Yes, I painted it a single, worn-wood colour. I do sometimes give wagons the full-treatment with unpainted wood effects but life's too short to do this to all of them (in any case most BR wagons were grubby rather than unpainted.). Still, here's a couple of sad cases, almost innocent of paint..... Slater's kit - built as per the instructions - nice kit (must true up that brake lever guide!) Coopercraft kit - but with different brake gear (can you see the awful mistake?) and the usual Peco buffers ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On the subject of removeable loads - with a terminus style layout I don't like open wagons which obviously run in and out again with the same load, or no load. In a yard like Dock Green if they ran in loaded they would be unloaded, and then either used for a different consignment or then run out empty (and of course the other way round). Ordinary opens and mineral wagons can be given removeable loads easily enough, if necessary on a thin false floor, but the Lowmac is a tricky one. "Oh, and apologies for hijacking the thread." No need Pat. It's what a forum is for. It's the conversational aspect, the give and take, that makes it worthwhile, isn't it? Chaz

Pat, here's mine - a nice wagon - maybe it will inspire you to finish yours? Haven't put a load on it as I can't think of a way of making the load look roped or chained to those rings AND make it easy to remove so that it can also run "empty". Any ideas?

Pat, In my experience Jim will help you out with any castings you might have converted into blobs. He has been generous to me in the past. Here's a technique to try when soldering white metal to brass - if you don't have a temperature controlled iron.... Tin the spot on the brass where the white metal is to be with 145 or 188 solder - it's easier to get a flat film with 188 polish the underside of the white-metal, where it will contact the brass, so that it shows bright and shiny put the casting in position and flood the area all round and under it with Duncan's or Carr's liquid flux - the one intended for white metal clean the tip of your iron really well - a wipe on a damp sponge should suffice melt a small amount of 70 solder onto the tip - if it won't stay on the iron the tip isn't clean enough apply the tip of the iron to the brass, very close to the casting but not actually touching - so that the solder blob is against the surface LISTEN - you should hear the flux hissing as it boils - this will hold the temperature at 100 - think back to your school physics (latent heat of evapouration!) watch for the solder to flash into the joint as soon as the solder flashes OR the flux stops hissing take the iron away let everything cool down naturally - washing the job whilst it's hot might crack the solder - code 70 is not very strong. Be thorough about washing the job afterwards - all that flux will turn the brass a vile shade of green. I use a squirt CIF cleaner as a neutraliser and then give it a thorough scrub. This method does take bottle - but it does work. Until I bought my temperature controlled iron I did all my castings this way. Hope that's helpful. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Progress is being made with the cobbles, but they are taking longer than I thought, this was this morning.... Closely positioned lamp to show up the work on the white surface Pattern already marked out with a scriber setts "drawn round" three or four times with the point of the needle file very old mop brush handy to shift the dust away all important mug of tea handy brain in zomby mode (not optional) Chaz

SNAP, Pat! But isn't this van a nice vehicle (I do like brake vans). A good kit too - I talked to Jim McGowan about it - I seem to recall him saying that he originally designed the kit for a different range and bought it back to include it in his Connoisseur stable, hence the fact that the model includes a compensated (rocking cradle) axle. Now these little interludes are all very well but they do hold up progress on the cobbles - they are going to take longer than I thought so MUST GET ON! Chaz

Thanks for the link Alan, I will follow this up.

A quick Google suggests that the parts are called bead caps. They come in a bewildering range of styles but might well furnish me with some shades for yard lamps. Found one supplier.... http://www.beadsdire...ings/bead-caps/ .....further investigation may well turn up more. The plain ones near the bottom of the page might serve. Chaz

That J65 is lovely! I now realise that a Walsworth kit would hold few terrors for you, but with your expertise why not just scratchbuild? I suppose those parts you can use will save you time.... Chaz

Hmmmm, thanks for that. I think you're right. There is a picture on page 7 of Geoff Goslin's "Goods Traffic of the LNER" which includes an earlier van which confirms your "gently curved". And your own photos show the diagonal straight style. Now, to change the brass ones I will have to attack the roofs with a soldering iron. The Slater's van has the rainstrips moulded on (I think) so they will need shaving off. Changing all of them them is possible but will require the roofs to be repainted. I may well do this sometime but it's going to have a low priority.... Chaz

Thanks for the comment about atmosphere - I think it may gain a bit more when the buildings and bridges get their layer of grime. Well now, the J52 - my experience of the Walsworth kit is that it is quite a challenge. I would advise you to think very carefully - you would have to do a bit of a kitbash even if you were going to build it as a J52. However if you are confident that you can make a few replacement parts, modify others and are happy to file off tabs and fill slots (otherwise the cab ends up over to one side and too far back) then go ahead. Chaz

The backs off ear rings? Brilliant! I have been wanting to make a few yard lamps for myself - it was the shades that held me back. I presume they can be bought from a jewelery supplier - you didn't have to vandalise your wife's collection...... Chaz

Yes Pat - I completely agree. A full answer as to whether it matters could go on for several pages and drag in the philosophical basis for modelling but..... 1) it's supposed to be fun (why else would we do it? 2) "the extent to which it matters is up to the individual" 3) Rule One applies at all times (really the same as point 2) - and critics can go away (best rendered as the Anglo-Saxon version) Chaz

Thanks Don. The two brass vans were built from photos, it's the Slater's one that I just built following their instructions - hence the handrail error - but it is a very small error......

very convincing scene in your photograph Alan. I have no need of a Jinty as they never appeared on GN metals, to my knowledge (dangerous statement?), but I have often admired the one on Jim McGowan's display. Can I ask you about the rather nice yard lamps - where did they come from - whose kits? Or are they your own creations? Chaz

As you say Martyn, life's too short. I just put jobs like that on the very bottom of the list - which gets longer rather than shorter. Your son is doing very well with his first build. You might want to get him to check out the ends of the body. There should be holes for the horizontal handrails that run along the tops of the concrete platform weights - which I seem to remember aren't there! They are easier to drill before the weights are added. I have built the WEP Fruit D - nice kit - although I seem to recall there is a lot of work in one. Chaz

You learn something everyday! Obviously I was wrong to assert that all BR vans had the arrangement of handrails that I modelled. I had a look at your reference photo and it indeed it contradicts what I said - mea culpa! However in my defence B950655 is not typical of the majority of BR brake vans. I will say that I have never seen a photo of a van with handrails like my unfitted Slater's van (there's a challenge for you!) Your post highlights three points Don't assume that all vehicles of a type were identical in their details - especially if they were numerous It's best to work from a photograph to build a model of a particular prototype (as you are doing & I did with both of my vans) It's very easy to get small details wrong What is quite clear is that the LNER/BR brake van has a complicated history with numerous detail changes both when first built and also in later modifications. Now, I'm off to have breakfast - humble pie! Chaz

OK Martyn. You need to have your anorak ready..... Look at the van on the right - the BR one. You will notice that the vertical handrails either side of the verandah opening are different. The ones towards the outer ends stop just above the bottom of the body - the inner ones carry on down a little and are supported on a bracket that projects below the body. I believe all the BR vans were like this - but Slater's van isn't. The Connoisseur kit includes the bracket (it's part of the side). The van on the left, portraying an LNER built van is different again - having the vertical handrails divided into two sections - long above and short below. So when I did my kit-bash I had to cut the bracket off. There was one other difference in the handrails between the two vans - the horizontal rail that runs below the ducket was in one length on the BR van - the earlier LNER van had it divided into three. One last thing to say - there was a transition period during the war when the LNER van started to resemble the later BR van in some respects. For instance the scrap-iron ballast was replaced by the concrete weights on the platforms (I presume the metal was just too valuable in wartime to use as mere ballast). Here endeth...... Chaz

Thanks for your comments Alan. Nothing much wrong with building locos with rigid axles, I just found that locos pickup reliably for longer if they are sprung or compensated. They also track a bit more smoothly through Peco pointwork. I have changed to beam compensation (the saddle tank has twin beams supporting the front two axles). Both of the wagons you refer to were built from Coopercraft kits. These are excellent basic kits with some very nice details, although you have to find wheels and axles and are well advised to discard the buffers provided. I use the Peco ones as substitutes. I enjoyed getting the unpainted wood and rusting metalwork look on the wagons. Chaz

Thanks, Peter. I did worry for a while about the joins in the cab-sides half way down the "window" openings, which I had great difficulty in hiding. Then I noticed in some pictures of J50's that the join on the real thing, which was in the same place, was often very obvious, a prototypical imperfection...... Chaz

Hmmm. Now you're asking Don. Well, as I recall the only soldering I had ever done was masses of electrical and electronic work. So yes "a real baptism of fire". I have never had much patience. I just bought the kit at the Home of O Gauge shop, read a few MRJ articles and then started making mistakes, lots of them...... The worst "mistake" I made was to build the frames with rigid axles. The loco ran well enough but was very sensitive to dirt on the wheels. Eventually (after a year or two) I bit the bullet, dismantled the frames and put in sprung hornblocks. Now, when it stalls, the wheel treads will be really dirty. A couple of snaps of this first try.... Must have taken these snaps just after I built it as it still has 3 link couplings. I am still quite proud of this first effort in etched brass - but I will say again much of my success can be attributed to the excellent Connoisseur kit. All the parts fitted as they should, I didn't have to modify or replace anything and the instructions were helpful. Incidentally, the loco is a J50/3, built by the LNER in 1930. Unlike my other J50 (68891 - see above) it did not have vacuum brakes. I chose 68973 as it was one of the locos that I saw in my youth - it was shedded for a time at Hornsey. Chaz

I was lucky Pat. Foolishly ignoring all advice to start with a wagon, my first etched brass kit was a Connoisseur J50 0-6-0T. I reasoned that if I couldn't build a loco then 7mm wasn't for me. The second loco kit I bought was the Walsworth Models J52 saddle tank. Luck? Well, if I had taken on the saddle tank first, as a complete beginner, it would probably have defeated me. Chaz

David, thanks for the comments. You say ....on the subject of errors... in my world if it looks like a brake van, it is a brake van. Life's too short and there seem to be numerous detail variations between individual examples anyway..... I have a great deal of sympathy with your view (indeed I intend to leave well alone with my LNER van), however with a modelling project like the kitbash (actually more of a kit-tickle!) it's attention to the fine details that makes the difference. I can best sum up my attitude as - If it's as easy to get it right as wrong then get it right. If you have to compromise then decide for yourself what is acceptable to you; critics can go away. (I cleaned that last bit up). If you find out later that you have made a mistake decide for yourself if you want to rectify it or not. Wrong number of spokes on a loco's wheels? Can you tell when they are revolving? Wrong shade of green? Are you basing your judgement on a colour photo, which was shot on film that (inevitably) had a colour bias, or on the memory of someone who last saw the prototype forty years ago? No valve gear between the frames? Well that boiler isn't nearly full of boiling water either... The ultimate critic stopper is - "Oh, you're right of course. How did you do the one you made?" Ho hum......now it's back to the cobbles for me.......ZZZZZzzzzz Chaz

As I was making a comparison between the etched brass kit and Slater's plastic one it only seems fair to show a snap of my build of the latter.... The photo was taken before the van got weathered but otherwise it looks good. There is one error in the Slater's kit - any brake van buffs spot it? Chaz

I agree with what you say Pat, particularly the bit about it being tremendously satisfying. However there is one warning worth giving. There are a few bad etched brass kits around. Either they don't fit, or are difficult to build because the design is faulty (and often bad kits have worse instructions). I have struggled to finish a few dodgy ones and it was tremendously satisfying to eventually complete them. How is a beginner to know which ones to avoid? I would suggest before buying post a request on the forum - "Anybody built a....". If the purchase is at a show I would also ask the vendor how easy it is to build. The answer may be revealing. If you ask Jim McGowan (Connoisseur Models) how easy a kit of his is to build you will get an honest answer. He will tell you about any tricky bits and offer advice when you need it. A beginner could do a lot worse than start with one of his kits. Chaz