Prof Klyzlr

Dear Jack, eBay.com has maybe 30 on offer at this time, from US$12 up to over US$80, with a number of shells and dummy units sitting around US$25... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS don't feel bad about not getting the make and model, Baldwin wasn't hugely popular in the diesel world, and there's a number of alegedly "S12" units which are plainly EMD SW models...

Dear F-Unit, Hey, I'll admit it. I don't have an airbrush, my "s.o.p" when moving-fast on a project simply doesn't work well with any "accepted wisdom" methodology I've encountered RE airbrushing, and maybe I'm "believing the hype", but I'm led to understand that no airbrush = no hope of a "decent paintjob" on larger items (such as undecorated locos or cars). I'm not afraid of a decent sable-hair brush, and Tamiya XF series paints have always worked great for me. (NB that using the XF series means matching various RR paint colors is a challenge). I also enjoy weathering any/everything in sight. But anything much more than a single or 2-color loco livery makes me stop and question "do I really need to go there?" (Oh, I also stuggle with masking models... forever getting bleed...) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS Tamiya "rattle cans" have been an interesting experiment on some recent single-base-color models, but I'm far from believing they are an equivalent on a skilled-hand-with-an-airbrush...

Dear RMWebbers, The following PDFs outline some of the mods I foistered on Atlas Alco S-series switchers, and a Kato NW2, to more closely represent the locos on the NYCH circa 1999. Also ended up with a SW1500 in UP colors, which was intended to be mod'd into 1133 as purchased by NYCH. Unfortunately, a morbid fear of painting and decalling has stalled the project, and the Athearn loco is still wearing the "1136" number it came with ex-factory... Anywho... http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page87/pdf/NYCHlocomotives.pdf Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS I have other loco kitbashes in various stages, covering BNSF -8s thru to the drop-cab GE70tonners of the SBK in Brooklyn. Let me see if I can dig them out and check where they are up to... ;-)

Dear 298, So, despite appearances of a mass thread hijack, has the discussion inpired you to get a roll on your own version of the OC Switcher? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMWebbers, NB That we already verified the position of the LH (SW) turnout of the passing spur using Bing's "Birdseye" view, the clearance point is approx 1/2 way along that "bulge" in the building below (SE) of the track... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Jack, My bad, shouldn't be trying to post coherrently or otherwise @ 0'dark-hundred... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Jack, Loving the concept, and yes the appeal of the "left to go right" spur would be worth capturing. However, I just measured my Athearn HO SW1500, and it's 155mm over couplers, ergo 2 of them fit in just-over 1'. Are you sure the scale of the trackplan is correct? (the locos look a little long, and the 2x SW1500 sectorplate could possibly be a bit shorter, maybe even mounted on a drop-leaf?) Still working on the Google images here,... ;-) Happy Modelling, Aim to improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Jack, I'll readily admit that it was the Kalmbach "Locomotive 2011" article that grabbed my attention. As such, I guess the "era" (and "feel"?) that got my attention was "current"... (or "most current rail service last handled by SW1500s" ;-) ). With that in mind, check out http://binged.it/JeR6Dv Zoomed out, showning both ends of the "passing track" http://binged.it/Jc7Uje Southern end, closest to the Mainline and Interchange, you can _just_ pick out the frog location, adjacent to the White/black/white set of 3 utes in the line of parked cars http://binged.it/JeSczk Northern end, closest to the 5th St intersection, turnout can be clearly seen next to the forklift and the white dot in the large circle (Helicopter landing pad marking?) NB that this "passing spur turnout" is _south_ of the "Short Track" turnout, the Short Track comes off the Lead directly. (Hint, by moving the Short Track spur turnout onto the passing track, IE effectively swapping the order of the turnouts as encountered heading SW from the 5th St intersection, the "pass + Short Track" becomes more "trad inglenook", and saves 1x linear turnout length, or around 2 carlengths...) Based on the datecodes at bottom right of the pimage, this is "Pictometry 2010 MDA Geospatial Services" Sat down last night with - the Kalmback article - the FOG chart - and Google/BingMaps and tried to plot "photo angle" positions for each of the images. Most were not too hard, but there are still 1 or 2 that I'm not convinced I know where the photographer was standing to get the shot... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear RMWebbers, OK, we gotta start somewhere... - with the HUGE assumption that no-one can tell me the actual length of the block between 5th and 6th streets, - and the slightly larger assumption that the FOGChart is correct on this point, that switchback/headshunt/"lead" track 783 is rated to hold 2x locos (SW1500s @ 45' each) + 4x cars (assumed 50' boxcars @ 55' ea over couplers) = 310' or around 1085mm in HO (IE less than 1200mm/4') If we align one end of that with the SW boundary of the Main/5th intersection, .... (seriously, this is looking very do-able... ) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear OzExPat, Oh no, I definitely include the scenery, structures, weather, and time of day under the term "feel"... ("Brooklyn" simply wouldn't have made any sense if it wasn't in the context of a drizzly 3AM... ) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Jack, RMWebbers, Jack, I'm working on it... hope to have something useful shortly... IMHO, I don;t think it's actually that big an issue, just requires some creative lateral thinking RE benchwork... (and being open to the idea of a dropleaf, if the only form-factor available is a strict linear shelf ;-) ). I've been comparing notes here, and as always in RR research, it takes more than 1 "primary source" in order to get to the _truth_ ;-) - according to _this_ BingMaps view, the Short Track definitely holds 3x50' boxcars http://binged.it/HSXDbe As such, 1 for BingMaps, 1 for FOGChart, 0 for Blog - according to _this_ BingMaps view, the 15" radii curve to access the Short Track does _not_ cross any tracks on a diamond. http://binged.it/HSZ0Xq Indeed, the turnout for the Short Track clearly comes off the track _ahead_ of the turnout for the NE end of the passing loop, not _inside_ the passing loop as implied by the FOGChart. (although, if you're a fan of, or want the handlaying challenge of the "turn left to go right" trackage, go ahead, promise I won't tell anyone... ;-) ) As such, 1 for BingMaps, 0 for FOGChart, Comparing - Bing and Google maps - the FOG Chart - the "Locomotives 2011" annual there would appear to be around 3 spurs coming off the South side of the "Main", as well as the 2 passing-loop tracks, and the single Short Track coming off to the North. As such, If I read it in the right light, there looks to be maybe room to truncate the Mill's throat maybe 3 different ways to get a 'nook... ;-) Given the Long Tracks 6-car spotting positions, even that track + a headshunt and portion of the Main could keep a proto-switcher fan amused... :-) I note the woodchip spurs listed on the FOGChart, but have you seen any pics with the SW1500s spotting chipcars in the mill??? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear OzExPat, That would explain the prodominence of "high above the town" shots on the various RR and "Blog" sites that cover the OC Switcher moves. It does present a problem for the layout designer though. - By modelling the scene as shown in the common photos, (IE in a way that makes it easy for even non model RRers to look at the proto pic, look at the model, and says "I get it now, I see the scene"), we get a _proto_justification_ for a presenting a low-altitude layout and "chopper shot" perspective (really "top of hill" shot :-) ). However, this also presents challenges in terms of module design, visual presentation, (it's just easier if a model scene starts low and rises to the rear), and operator interface... - In contrast, building and displaying the layout as if the viewer was "in the river" looking accross/up at the mill, town, and hill, would fit better within convention "module design", but would not match many of the "common photos" of the scene being modelled, and as such wouldn't give the matching perspective to the images that have obviously grabbed the attention of both myself and other RMWebbers here on-thread... Oh the predicament! That said, no matter which way you look at it (pun not intended... I'll get my coat anyway...) I agree that the scene covering renditions of: - both Short and Long Tracks - feeder "mainline" (still having to look hard to confirm exactly how trains get onto/off-of the property), - the "S-bend" grade crossing - the switchback past Tavern 505 should be easily do-able in 8' Consider: - a 5-3-3 'nook requires 11 carlengths, - and assuming 50' Railbox boxcars @ 8" each in HO, - 8' buys you 12 linear carlengths. - factor in that the key "short track" is a 90-degree curve IE _NOT_ eating linear length, and things look to get very do-able... :-) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear 298, Let me know if you need any sound-design for the layout, I can see (oops, I mean _hear_) Chris C and the band playing out of Tavern 505 as the SWs roll past... ;-) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS I think we've talked here onlist previously about the links between music and model RRing? I know TriSonic would have some key insights! :-)

Dear Jack, Come now, I'm sure we could do a bang-up job of the Herron Mill, 505 Tavern, and maybe even a section of the UP/BNSF main in the background, in what, say 8x1? (Limit the width to the street and 1 building either side, and you could shrink it down to 8x0.75, which could fold up to a 4x1.5 for transport!!!) Athearn do the SW1500s, the Railbox boxcars are available, we already know that "rain-slicked 3AM" is entirely do-able, and with (If I trace the rails correctly) the Interchange access to the Herron Mill actually coming from "out the back", (IE the track past T505 is actually a headshunt/switchback!?!?!?), seriously, IMHO this is a proto-nook exhibition-grade layout in the making... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS Jack, did you check the "FogChart" for this line linked to earlier? Potentially invaluable resource for emulating the proto op "headspace" even on a off-stage staging-free micro...

Dear 298, Just some random thoughts that come to mind as extreme tiredness sets in... - RE providing the OC Switcher pics and links : Sorry for the "push" In the same way that "Brooklyn" took advantage of it's 1999 timeframe to level the rave party tracks of UltraSonic and Scooter , I could definitely see a layout set in the Pac NW, levering SoundGarden, Nirvana, and Foo Fighters... - Remember that _properly_deployed_ "LayoutSound" can give all the Grunge the 505 Tavern could deliver in the wee hours as UPs SW1500s switch Herron Paper http://lothes.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/last-switch.html _without_ having to exceed 60dB SPL, and drift from "atmospheric" and "in the style of" into flat out "too dang loud"... - Strongly reccomend picking up a copy of the Kalmbach "Trains Special Annual : Locomotive 2011", it has a 7-page article on the OC Switcher's last nights, and is where I first learned abou this "local" http://www.kalmbachstore.com/loc110901.html - There's a significant ammount of RR interest in the Pac NW, even leaving the loggers out of proceedings. (With Weyerhauser and Simpson still going strong, and both using EMD switchers, http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6183/6132748682_649b80737d.jpg why you'd want to leave them out is beyond me,... :-) ). However, much of the "modern era" switching needs some hunting. For the modeller and trackplanner, it also often requires a high degree of focus to capture "the feel" while staying true to the desired model ops. http://www.shortlinesusa.com/northwest.htm - Much of the Pac NW ops are op-in-daylight affairs AFAIK, which is why the stated givens-and-druthurs of "drizzly, at night" immediately made me "pull focus" onto the OC Switcher... - In no particular order of preference, we've covered the Meeker Southern, Puget Sound and Pacific, and the disturbingly-micro-layout-esque Portland CLP grain terminal with trackmobile here onlist previously. The OPR I think bears closer inspection, (and with Rapido threatening to bring out a RTR GMD1, could suddenly become very do-able!), but partial as I am to SW1500s, the UPs OC Switcher really grabbed me by the lapels... - UP switching Sea-tac with SW1500s and a ex MP caboose is an appealing thought, ,,, but oh dang ... Those RailYard resin MP caboose kits which were just going on eBay for 4+ times their retail prices would have been _perfect_! http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=236173&nseq=1 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=235762&nseq=2 Whichever way you choose to go, I'm sure you'll turn out some sterling results... :-) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear LI Jack, Can't argue with experience there. If it's working for you, then by all means, go for it However I have 4 layouts with varying degrees of Foamcore/Qubelok/carpet mix, that have survived - over 8 years of regular exhibitions - tipping end-over-end - random droptests from up to 4' onto hardwood floors, concrete, and tarmac and with a 2' x 4' x 2' tall proscenium module that weighs in at under 10 kilos complete, (the basic module, inc lighting rig, before track is laid, weighs right around 3 kilos), it's proven to be a hardy, road-ready, versatile layout/display platform for me... Looking forward to seeing where your current project leads... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

I'm already seeing far heavier construction than possibly is required... (where's me Foamcore?) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Don't 'e wot! Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Tim, Um, just becase the pre-fab "questions about shipping" says "no", doesn't mean you can't actually ask the seller, you just have to hit the small "did we answer your question? = NO, I want to ask the seller" radio button at the bottom, and you get forwarded to the old-style "manually type in your question and send it" interface... ;-) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Roger, Carl A's "Small/Micro Layout Website" is _still_ a dynamite reference for such tiny layout design info http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page83a/index.html#1lift http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page93/index.html#ross Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Pete, Interesting thought, although from experience I've found that building a 1<>2 sectorplate _or_ traverser is far more challenging to the _mind_ than it is in _practical_terms_. Once you get into 3<>1 territory, the need to index to the "centre track(s)" significantly up's the practical build degree-of-difficulty. However, for a 2<>1 "it's either one way or t'other" system, if you can lay a length of flextrack, you can build a sectorplate. (Read that again. If true, this implies that building and operating a "Sectorplate 'nook" a la ChicagHO Fork is easier than it is to build Jack's "Shortover yard", although not as compact in overall linear length for the same track capacity...) The Sectorplate on "ChicagO Fork" was severely over-engineered, using 1" aluminium tube, 3mm MDF, and a 3/8" bolt as the pivot point. This "excess of material" was predicated by - I hadn't worked in O scale before, - had _no_ equipment to compare with, - and was paranoid about weight handling As it turned out, the brass GP35 I ended up with weighed in at around 2 kilos, and each car tipped the scales at around 1/2 a kilo. Interestingly, a friend did test boththe layout and the sectorplate with his _4_kilo_ Brass Sunset UP Challenger, and zero-deflection was detected ;-) Compare this to ChicagHO Fork, where the sectorplate is nowt but - 3 layers of 5mm foamcore laminated together (for height more than rigidity/strength) - a 3/8" bolt thru a 308 skateboard/rollerblade bearing for the pivot-point - and a single thickness of 5mm foamcore glued vertically along each _long_edge_ of the sectorplate to act as a "rigidity gusset" (oh, and a length of flextrack on top :-) ). I've said it before, and I'll be saying it again, how heavy _are_ our trains? Do we _really_ need to build micro layouts with benchwork that could support me benchpressing my own bodyweight? Admitedly, using a sectorplate "ChicagHO Fork" style only saves 1 turnout in linear length, (or between 1.5 and 2 linear "carlengths" based on the 'nook carlength maths I mentioned earlier), but in some cases, _any_ linear saving is a _worthy_ saving... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS did a quick roundup of the equipment I have piling up here, and it appears that ChicaHO Fork could easily masquerade as - LA circa 1970 - 1990s (paired SP SW1500s and western RR stock) - LA circa 1990 - 2000 (paired ex-SP + UP SW1500s and western stock) - Florida 1980 - 2000 (Apalachicola Northern SW1500 + caboose and ??? stock, just need to add a palm tree... ;-) ) - Chicago circa "CB&Q" era (as designed, with Atlas CB&Q GP40 + caboose and ??? stock) - Chicago 1990 - 2010 (IHB SW1500 + PB1 and ??? stock) - NY/NJ 1990 - 2000 (NYCH S1, S4, or NW2 and eastern stock, although needs more dirt/grime/grot/grafitti)

Dear Pete, The ChicagO Fork (O scale) version was designed such that the sector-plate module could be removed, and another 4' x 1' module could be put in it's place. The geometry of the sectorplate was such that the diverging "industrial spur" would mate on the new module thru a #5 turnout exactly the same as the existing one, with no movement/re-alignment of rails accross the joint necessary. Given the use of a GP35 on the O scale version, the resulting "tail track"/switchback would be slightly too short, although an Atlas SW1200 would fit. Ergo, for O scale, and assuming - #5 NMRA turnouts, - strictly 40' cars a "no sectorplate" version would be (Dimensions are _Overall_) 8'x 1' (2400mm x 300mm) for a SW or Alco S switcher 8' 6" x 1' (2550 x 300) for a GP35 or shorter The HO version sectorplate as built actually holds 4 x 40' cars (or 2 cars + 2x SW1500s a la SP "LA Street Switching" style) This was a "happy accident", and came about by building a sectorplate that could handle 1x GP40 (longer than a SW!) 1x 50' car 1x 40' car + some "fudge factor" By stiffening up the specs to - PECO US geometry #5 turnouts with _no_ trimming - strictly 40' cars (and noting that the existing 2-car "spurs" on the 'nook are slightly longer than absolutely required, to fit the afore-mentioned "random/rogue 50'er" car... ) 4' 3" x 6" (1275 x 150) for SW or Alco S switcher 4' 6" x 6" (1350 x 150) for GP35 or shorter Substituting PECO Code 75 or Code 100 "setrack" might shorten up the dimensions, but may also _widen_ the depth of the module. "Curved route" turnouts may also have knock-on effects on the reliability of Kadee coupling/uncoupling. FWIW, working on the basis of "car lengths", a (NO SECTORPLATE) 5-3-3 'nook eats 11 linear carlengths, and a (NO SECTORPLATE) 3-2-2 'nook eats 8 linear carlengths. However, assuming a _SectorPlate_Equipped_ 'nook, with no "fudge length" for excess-length cars or oversized locos: "5-3-3" 'nook = approx 9.5 carlengths "3-2-2" 'nook = approx 6.5 carlengths Have to say I've not feased the lengths for N scale, but based on the above and the fact that a LifeLike N scale SW1200 is 90mm over MT couplers, a (NO SECTORPLATE) 3-2-2 'nook should be do-able in under 18"/750mm linear. Hope this Helps... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Mickey, The inspiration was built as a test for a O scale SG switcher in "micro layout" space (I'd never modelled in O scale SG before...) http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page98a/index.html#ho-chicago http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page97a/index.html#chicago A HO version was banged out in approx 6 weeks, using "all-foamcore" http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page103a/index.html#chicago-fork An N Scale version should be very do-able in approx 1' x 3" (scene size) + 1' sectorplate (Total size, 2' x 3" overall) Not sure how large a G scale SG version would be, possibly 8' x 2' (with an 8' sectorplate?) Whatever the case, yes absolutely agree that it "works" as a "try another scale/gauge" taster... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Old, I know of quite a number of skilled scale RR loggers who have refrained from bringing their models into the exhibition realm, for exactly this reason... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr

Dear Jack, I don't have any particular model in mind, but maybe you'll find something useful from the Euro manufacturers? Alternatively, connect with fellow Melbourne modeller (tram modeller, but it's a start) Glennofootscray via Youtube Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr