Atso

40 minutes ago, dibateg said:

Now here's something thats been puzzling me from Peter Costers GN book where it covers Sandy. Look at the length of the headshunt this side of the points, I don't think you'd even fit a 16 tonner in it..  Was it truncated, or wasn't there room for two buffer stops? Curious... something for the 'prototype for everything' department!

 

Tony

Hi Tony,

Wasn't Sandy a shared station site with the LMS? Could the 'head shunt' actually be a protective measure for the mainlines in the event of an incident during a shunting move with the buffer stop providing a level of protection for the signal box?

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I thought it all rather hypocritical. Rather in the way that far-left politicians, intent on dismantling decent grammar schools, send their own off-springs to private education.

 

Is there such 'snobbery and hypocritical behaviour in railway modelling, I wonder? 

I think that education is ultimately what the student makes of it. Good teachers and course content is always very helpful, but the student must be engaged and willing to both learn and put the work in.

Having given up with A Level Biology, Chemistry and Geography at school in the late 1990's, I returned to education at my local college in the early 2000's and undertook a condensed AS and A2 evening course (two hours a week) in Business Studies. One of the first questions the other students asked the tutor was what grade they could expect. His reply was most students on this particular course gained a D grade while the highest grade he'd experienced was a C. Instantly there were shouts about how this must because of the quality of teaching (not helped that the tutor was from another country) and two people left there and then.

Over the next 32 weeks of the course, at least 50% of the class failed to show up to 25% or more of the lessons (most didn't do the homework) and only myself and one other maintained a 100% attendance record. The two of us were also the most engaged students during lesson time and we happily lapped up everything the tutor could give us. In the end I achieved maximum marks in my AS exam and nearly equaled it in my A2 exam - my friend walked away with Bs in both exams. It was then the two of us discovered that our tutor was also a professor at the local university where his classes were some of the most popular and 'his' batting average in student results was much higher than in the course I attended. Surely evidence that the student must do the work to achieve the grades?

Considering I was working two jobs at the time (and spending every free hour studying), I was over the moon and got accepted to do a degree equivalent at another college (with a great endorsement from my tutor), which I accepted and completed.

With regard to your comments above, I think that, regardless of political ideology, people will generally (there are always exceptions) grab opportunities of privilege (whether financial, position, education, etc) that their position allows (all animals are equal...). Does such snobbery and hypocritical behaviour exist in railway modelling? I suspect that, as with the hobby itself, the answer would generally depend on the individuals own values, beliefs and objectives regarding the hobby and how they judges (too strong a word?) others by the standards they (claim to?) uphold - after all, we all view the word through the prism of our individual identities.

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

That's splendid work, Steve,

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

Unfortunately, any pictures of Hadley Wood I have were taken after the widenings in 1958/'59. Were the original station buildings demolished then?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thank you Tony. The original platform buildings were demolished during the widening works but I do have one or two usable photos. Sadly there is little recorded of what the arrangement of the backs of these buildings were so some educated guesses will likely be required. The main station building remained, slightly altered and minus the chimneys, until (I think) electrification and additional height was required for the wires - I understand that the original tunnels were dug out to lower the track bed at the same time.

47 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Has anyone else been building buildings? 

Lovely photos Tony, only surpassed by seeing them in the flesh.

As you know I've been working on Hadley Wood's signal box recently.

I'm still not finished as I'd like to revise the stairs and windows. However, I'm pretty pleased with it other than those issues.

Not a build yet, but I've been working on some scale drawings for the main station building and road bridge. These have been produced using measurements taken of the surviving bits and using this information to extrapolate the dimensions of the station building itself (long gone) and a few other bits.

I've still got to work out the platform waiting rooms (and the main station building's chimneys!) but the surviving canopy supports on the stairway have given me essential dimensions to work out the rest.

2 hours ago, richard i said:

25 year gap! Your 3d printing was very good in 1995!

Richard 

Not bad for a (then) fourteen year old with no CAD skills and no idea what 3D printing was! 

I've been doing some work on Hadley Wood recently but have returned my attention to the J6s.

Two locomotives of the same class but representing a c. 25 year gap in terms of details.

24 minutes ago, queensquare said:

Thanks gents, even I can't justify one of those at Bath! I will pop it in Steve 'Atsos' stash.

 

Jerry

Thanks very much Jerry, I'm always on the lookout for ex-GN Fish vans!

7 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

The LNER streamliner sets were also managed in this way and taken out of service for overhaul every spring so they'd be ready for the start of the summer timetable.    In the last 12 months or so I've seen two pictures of the spare Coronation set working, one where it's replacing the Silver Jubilee.  I've also very recently seen a picture of a Coronation working with a teak pair (RTP-RF) replacing twin C-D.   That must have been a last minute failure.

That was my understanding as well Jonathan and using the spare set is going to be my dodge to be able to represent both the West Riding and Coronation services without needing two fiddle yard slots. I've not heard of teaks being used in the streamliner sets before; is this a publicly available photograph?

9 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Lovely tunnelmouth, surprising how big they !!

 

Here's a pic of the coins used by the 2mm society being shown off !

 

manna

Thanks Manna! Those aren't the coins sold by the 2mm Association. I think I've seen them before on either the P4 or S7 sites...

Thank you Richard.

As an interesting comparison, below is a photo of the real tunnel mouth as it is today. In the foreground is the buttress for the second tunnel which was bored during the 1953-59 quadrupling work. Despite appearances in the photo, the majority of the brick is brown/red.

You can see the areas where I simplified the construction of my version.

A return to the northern tunnel mouth this morning saw some more weathering work undertaken.



I've tried to represent the water staining evident in photos of the real thing as well as adding some soot staining. This has been done using a dark grey wash, oil paints (for the water staining/streaking) and powders. I leave this for a few days before sealing everything in using a slightly dirty matt varnish to tie everything together.

43 minutes ago, Lantavian said:

 

You are dead right. Channel Five is for entertainment, not education.

 

If you want to be enthused about  railway modelling, then Kathy Millatt's YouTube channel is a great next step. And there are so many other wonderful YouTubesters that do a much better job than any TV programme ever would.

 

I agree that Kathy's Youtube videos are an excellent source of techniques and inspiration. I think that there is a lot to be said about print articles as well - especially the older ones.

As for education, I've found that Tony, the Grantham team and many others are very informative on that front. From their encouragement, I decided that the reason why I was always dissatisfied with my layout attempts was because they were freelance. My first visit to Tony's to operate Little Bytham clinched the deal and I began researching Hadley Wood. With the shift to modelling a prototype came an interest in working timetables, carriage books, spotters books/notes and a more disciplined approach to my locomotive choices. I can honestly say that I've learnt more about the LNER in the last three years than I had in the previous twenty! I don't think I would have become interested in these things had it not be for the likes of Tony, but I think I also had to have reached a point where I was ready, and willing, to take the next step (in this particular direction).

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

If the TV series did inspire some to take up railway modelling, then I'm not going to argue with the merit of that. 

 

However (always an 'however'), I can't see that interest lasting more than a short time, because nowhere did I see an attempt to 'educate' folk in the disciplines of actual railway modelling. 

 

I know this has been discussed before, and it's probably best to let it 'die' naturally, but nowhere were the cornerstones of diligent research, observation of the prototype, the value of spending time (often lots of it) and the aim of producing something which looked like the real thing ever mentioned. It was just a mass of gimmicks, built-in jeopardy, arguments and rushing through something against the tyranny of time. If newcomers think that's the way to go in building a model railway, then, please, stop the world and let me off!

Good afternoon Tony,

I understand (and to an extent agree with) your point of view. However, Channel Five's focus is to create a programme that will drive viewing figures upward. Therefore, I think that they have focused on showing the hobby as something 'fun' to the masses. If they focused on educating folk on 'actual railway modelling', I think that the viewing figures would be lower and we'd likely lose a great resource for encouraging future generations into the hobby.

I think that the (unpalatable to some) starting point that the programme promotes is irrelevant; if the newcomer becomes enthused, they will likely expand their knowledge base and may turn to more prototypical layouts in the future.

I say this because of my experience of Dancing on Ice while I was a coach and (later) Assistant Manager of a rink. As a programme, I hate it; it doesn't portray competitive figure skating, makes up its own terminology, it pushes the celebrity participants at a far faster pace than I would ever be comfortable with. However, it brought people through the doors in droves and filled out the beginner group learn to skate courses to capacity. From that point, I (and other coaches) could gently work on changing the preconceptions of the new skaters and guide them towards safer and more realistic goals. Many were happy to simply learn to skate and had no interest in tests or competitions, but the show, in my experience, ultimately generated more people interested in pursuing a competitive career than was being generated without it. I ended up viewing the programme as a necessary evil which created much needed regular footfall to potentially develop into more knowledgeable 'proper skaters' later.

18 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Which brings me along to the fact that today (in the main) most model railways are 'historic'. When I were a lad (along with countless hundreds of thousands of others), my train set reflected what I saw for real. In no way was it historic (or realistic), and as the first diesel-outline models became available, they appeared alongside traditional steam. It seems to me there are far fewer youngsters putting together train sets reflecting what is currently the scene on our railways. If anything, they're following the dross they saw of late on the telly - the total opposite of realism. Even though I admit my boyhood train set was unrealistic, it never had knights of old, rocket ships, aliens or dinosaurs all over it!

Good morning Tony,

I think it is fair to say that everyone's modelling journey will be different and develop in different ways. To me, it is great to see younger people building layouts and enjoying the hobby in whatever form. The fact that the 'dross' on the telly has inspired them to have a go is, in my opinion, only a good thing and represents the start of their respective journeys, not the potential shape of them once their journey reaches its maturity. In ten years time, many of these newcomers will have lost interest, others will still enjoy the hobby in (to them) its original form, some will have developed it in ways I cannot imagine and a few will have taken an interest in the real railways and chosen to model them (either historic or contemporary).

If knights of old, rocket ships, aliens, dinosaurs, or any other item inspires a new generation to start pursuing railway modelling as a hobby and help support the wider hobby and trade, then that is alright with me.

Just catching up properly with this thread. Great news that Retford's future is secure and well done to Sandra for taking on such a huge project. I felt sad that I never got the opportunity to meet Roy and see Retford but I am glad that, at least, I might oneday have the opportunity to see the layout. Best of luck releasing the spirit of Roy's (and now your) vision.

48 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

Signalbox is excellent,  really good especially when so small. I guess it's based on photos of the original. I am surprised that it had an outside walkway, th3 box is quite low and the windows could be reached with a step ladder for cleaning quite easily. Will you be using gnats whiskers for the railings?

Thank you. It is based on photographic evidence but I've been forced to fill in quite a few blanks. I was surprised about the walkway but it is there on more than one photo. It is about the same height as the platforms so it might have been a bit of a stretch to clean the windows without it. I've not found any evidence of railings being in place, either on the outside of the walkway or mounted on the window frames. I find that gnats get really annoyed when I try and pinch their whiskers so, if I decided to add railing,  I'll use 0.25mm wire instead!

31 minutes ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Is this any good, you can see the Chimneys, and a nice somersault signal.

 

manna 

Thanks Manna. Funnily enough I've been using this photo to work out some of the details of the bridge span and upper sections of the piers.

Sadly, both the signal and crossover in the distance were removed during the 1932 resignalling work. Still no chimneys yet!

22 minutes ago, JamieR4489 said:

Your secret’s out. Does this mean your whole thread has been a metaphor for your cunning plan to capture the likes of Ian Rathbone and threaten them with lining all your Atlantics or they’ll be shrunk down and stuck to Hadley Wood’s platforms for eternity?

 

Lovely work on the tunnel mouth and signal box. Where do you 2mm modellers get your huge coins from?

Brilliant! I'm not sure whether I should confess or question your sanity for managing to create such a narrative from one autocorrect error... 

P.S. Giant coins are sold by the 2mm Association. 

A field trip to Hadley Wood station was untaken on Monday afternoon to measure up what remained of the original station. A lot of reference photos were also taken and a surprising number of clues about the original layout still remained.

The interior view of one of the (original?) windows.

Looking at the old Down platform - The big gap is where the station use to be. Beyond the arches are the two 'new' lines added in the 1950's when the line was quadrupled. Amazingly, the uprights for the canopy supports still remain attached to the stairway; these are a fantastic find as I can use them to work out the likely dimensions of the (long gone) waiting rooms.

A view of the outer wall of the Down stairway taken from what was the old goods sidings, but now platform four. The footbridge in the top right corner is the 1950's extension that linked the station building to the new platform.

Using the information gathered on Monday, a set of scale drawings of these structures was put together. I then used as many reference photos of the station building as I could find to work out the basic dimensions of the missing bits. The photos offered by Jeremy (cornish trains jez) were invaluable as well and he has my thanks for his help and sharing them on page one of this threat.

I've still got some way to go and several details are still missing - most notably the station's two chimneys. The drawings are to 1:148 scale and all the dimensions are in MM. 

On 07/06/2018 at 21:57, cornish trains jez said:

 

Some more details have been added and paint sloshed about...

I'm going to have another go at the windows and stairs.

On 26/07/2020 at 13:35, richard i said:

Looks good, should there be a gap at the top of the stairs so the signalman can get on to the front walkway to clean the windows? - I do not know the answer which is why I am throwing it out there.
Richard  

Good question Richard and the answer is that I don't know. Looking at other signal boxes, this detail seems to be a too bit hit and miss to make a definite decision.

Just now, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Tony,

 

there you go.

 

One of my favourite colour photos and the reference for my own model of 3286 that I am building.

15 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I only wish I could tick-off '5', other than for locos in plain black.

I've seen your own efforts at BR lined green Tony and think that you do yourself a disservice in your abilities with the above comment.

23 hours ago, 65179 said:

 

If you are not happy with the windows Steve have you tried either scoring lines in the glazing and filling them with paint or using a mapping pen? I know a number of 2mm modellers have use the former approach and Matthew Wald has used the latter for the latest of his masterpieces for Copenhagen Fields (he did an article on his most recent CF box for a recent 2mm Magazine).

 

Simon

Thank you very much Simon,

Funnily enough, I picked up a random copy of the 2mm Magazine last night and found that exact article. I think I'll try Matthew's method and compare the two - I can certainly get a finer line using a bow/ruling pen when I'm lining out locos and coaches.

I hope Tony doesn't mind, but I've attached a couple more photos of last night's and this morning's progress.

However, this afternoon was taken up with a field trip to the real Hadley Wood station to measure up what is left.

More than I expected and some useful clues were gained regarding the overall size of the original station building and waiting rooms.