Darwinian

........

What I ended up doing was applying a fairly thin covering of long-ish static grass to the area where the bracken was going to go. This holds the fronds upright and in position while the glue goes off (I used Copydex) without being too obtrusive once the bracken was in place. Don't make the covering of static grass too dense. It just makes it more difficult to work the fronds of bracken down into it.

Thanks Mike I'll watch out for that and that's a most ingeneous solution to the problem.

Keep it simple.  Just leave it as rough ground.

Ahh, brambles and braken, I can hear the Scale link braken etch I've had salted away for years calling .

Or maybe the gangers would have kept it a bit tidier in the late 20s-30s as it's right in front of the station building?

I did consider staff allotment space, as there will be immediately behind the platform at that end. 

Thanks for the feedback Mike.

Time constraints mean I've made little obvious progress with Cwmhir. Much of my model building time has been spent battling with the Collet non-corridor bow end build.

However I decided to try out photgraphing the coal wagon collection and station area that are slowly progressing.

First of all here is a general view of the station as it stands at present. The rectangle of MDF shows the location of the goods shed (yet to be built, a stone version of Abbotsbury with a more Rhymney esque canopy arrangement).

This is what it's all about, coal, coal and more coal.

End of the coal yard sidings.

The "snow" on the end of the coal sorting sidings is where I am in the process of burriying the sleepers in clay to represent the gunge that stands in for ballast in such locations.

I am undecided as to what to do with the area to the right of the water tank, between the coal sidings and the run round loop. Add a raised area linking n to the hill at the end  or leave it flat. It's in the wrong place for a colliers platform being next to the loco release turnouts. 

Any suggestions?

I'm in for two D98s and an E131.

Highly likely now I've started building them from bettabits sides .

I just received a R4683 (RH) composite in GWR livery from Hereford Model centre. My wife looked over my shoulder as I was taking it out and said "oooh, that looks nice".   Hornby have clearly got it right .

I've compared the chassis to my scrathbuild for the non-corridor versions I'm building (see GWR models and prototype area) and they match up pretty well (phew) although my 2.5mm channel underframe looks a bit undernourished. If they were a bit cheaper I'd just graft the sides I have onto the Hornby models (although if the chassis was available as a a spare I'd grab a few in seconds). As it is I'll continue building mine.

Hornby will probably release the non-corridors before I finish     .

A basic Interior fabricated from plasticard, evergreen strip for the guard's pigeonhole's and ratio seat mouldiongs.

The interior is in three sections (van and one compartment section shown) as there are two brass bulkheads soldered across the body to keep the sides supported. The plasticard end on the seating nearest the camera is simply to fill out the gap as the last section of seating moulding was a bit short.

I will add a brake stanchion but most of this detail is barely visible through the door and end windows so no greater details.

Basic bones of the underframe now built. I decided to stick with the 2.5mm channel-section as it allows a bit more clearance above the bogie side frames. To my eyes it looks OK and matches up with the ex-airfix B-set I have with a similar body style.

The bogies are the ones that used to be produced by 247 developments mounted on their cast bogie bolsters/pivots using 10ba bolts. The hole in the bogie centre stretcher is a very sloppy fit around the bolt so I intend to put a brass plate onto the underside of the bogie stretcher with a correct sized hole. The bogie mounts have two curved supports so that the bogie can only tilt in one plane. I presume the idea is to have one that tilts side to side and the other for and aft.

By sheer good fortune the ride height has come out spot on.

Trussing to be built up from 1mm x 1mm brass angle. More lands to be put into the frame to attach the undergubbins.

I cannot find many pictures of ends of these vehicles. I think the van end has 8 steps plus handrails, two side lamp irons, one bottom left lamp iron, 2 steps above the ends of the buffer beam and that's it. Compartment end has emergency alarm gear and lamp irons.

Does anyone know if there were jumper cables on either end? I cannot see any in the pictures I have found.

Also were the two long handrails on the roof on the centre line?

Happy Easter everyone.

Fascinating discussion   . My interpretation is that this is a D-set for the Cardiff division: Van third, compo, compo, van third. As I've pretty much started this here I might as well carry on. Perhaps the mods will let me know if I should move it to the kit/scratchbuilding area.

Inspired by the interest shown I've had a bash at assembling a van third body as a test run. Because I'm using an extruded aluminium roof the upper sides don't slope in quite as much as they possibly should because this extrusion is a bit too wide at the cantrail. However if the whole set looks the same it hopefully won't show too much .

Here's the basic body shell.

And close up of the van end.

The ends and floor are scratchbuilt in brass sheet, quite thin for the floor to save weight, which has the edge 3mm turned up to produce a shallow trough to attach the sides to. My intention is to add a couple of brass internal partitions for stiffness and then build the rest of the internals from plastic. Again with a view to saving weight as a set of four with whitemetal bogies is going to be enough (although hopefully not too much) for my locos to lug up the valley to Cwmhir .

Only just spotted this thread. Firstly a question for Darwinian: What's your plan for building up the complete coaches? I picked up two sets of the 247 E131 etches under the impression that they were overlays for the Airfix/Dapol/Hornby B sets coaches. However the etches are a scale 57' whereas the RTR B sets are 60'. The etches are a match for the length of the old-pattern Hornby 57' corridor stock but the roof curvature doesn't seem to match the non-corridor stock. I'll be following this thread with interest as I want to try to produce something that looks like a Birmingham area 4 coach set. 

My plan is to scratchbuild ends (whitemetal ones were made by 247 but I thought they would be too heavy), use 3mm brass U channel to fabricate a chassis (I've gone and bought 2.5mm due to mis-measuring , don't think I can get away with that). Rooves from aluminum extrusions (not sure what origin now), Bogies cast (247 ones). Remaining details plasticard, wire etc.

This lot is now on hold while I try to summon the courage to do all the door stops and hinges on more sides, it took me ages to do one. So a semi scratch build in Comet style.

Thanks Darwinian.  Clearly it will be only a few examples that would not have survived very long but for those who like variation, a find, indeed.  I really would like anyone to tell me that there really isn't a black line on the 'plain janes', as I see one (am getting old though).

Glad to be of assistance.

My reading of what I can find (just the well known references on the subject) is that this livery variant was probably applied from spring 1927 until summer (possibly August) 1928. I'm not sure how many vehicles would have passed through the works that year but I guess it would have been a reasonable number.

Micahel Harris in GWR Coaches says that the paintwork on coaches was expected to last up to 10 years before needing repainting but that they would be re-varnished periodically. Assuming the re-varnishing did not include replacement of the crests and lettering then it would seem reasonable to expect these vehicles to still be around in the early 1930s but then becoming rarer, with secondary stock probably the longest lived.

I have just found a few further examples of "plain Jane" + Garter with supporters livery. In John Lewis Great Wetern Auto Trialers Part 2. Both of the Alexandra Docks Railway trailers (GWR Pilot vans) rebuilt from steam railmotors are shown in this livery (p206-207). Lewis cites this as "Spring 1927 livery". Also on page 365 one of the ex Taff Vale trailers apears to be in this livery.

It could simply be in these cases that Welsh area workshops did the repaints and didn't think it worth lining out the very narrow panels between the windows although the driving end of one ADR vehicle is clearly seen to be plain chocolate and cream despite having quite wide panel areas.

Also a couple of main line stock vehicles in Russell's Great Western Coaches Appendix Vol 2, in the form of a G3 "Directors Saloon" (Fig 58) and G47 Saloon (Fig 97). Both of these saloons being corridor Clerestories. In all cases I cannot make out any lining between the Choclate and the cream.

Adrian

 

 

I don't understand the combination of garter crest with plain jane.  If there is such a photo, I would be pleased to have my attention drawn to it.  According to my reading, it went straight from imitation panelling and garter crests to plain jane with shields.

 

I admit I have not examined the suburban sets too closely; only the B sets.

J.H. Russell GWR Coaches Appendix Vol 1 Figure 228 shows a Diagram D98 Non-corridor Brake Third in this livery. According to Russell's caption this was an official photo taken "as built" in "1928 livery". There is also a D8 Non-corridor clerestory in Fig 160 that appears to be in the same livery as the panels can barely be discerned. A quick flick through did not reveal any other examples so it was presumably a short lived livery between the abondoning of full panelling and the introduction of the twin shield motif.

Adrian

The aim was to backdate a Hornby GWR 2-8-0T to 1929 condition. I started out with a BR late crest version of the first batch of Hornby 2-8-0T because I was buying as cheaply as I could in case I mucked it up. This added complications because I had to replace the short safety valve casing and remove the smokebox number plate. Detailing came from a Brassmasters detailing kit. Cabside shutters were carefully scraped off and the bunke recess filled in. Missing/destroyed rivets replaced with Archer transfers and the cyclinder drain cocks replaced with scratch built earlier version. Resprayed Phoenix precision pre 1928 GWR loco green.

Apologies for the slight camera shake.

Adrian

Oops, like others I missed this thread until now. Would have entered my backdated 5205 in modified RTR.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/98947-modified-rtr-challenge-1929-gwr-5205-class/

I could take a high res photo of it today. Still awaiting weathering but otherwise completed.

Adrian

I must admit I find GWR practice baffling where battery boxes are concerned - and livery and lining for that matter.  

 

The smaller box on the composite is, I think, a regulator box.  Some coaches have them inside the coach where there is space and this could explain why thee brake vehicles do not have them on the underframe.  Now as the non-corridor coaches were contemporaneous with the corridors that Hornby are producing it might be worth comparing them.  Who knows?  They might even be the same.

 

Remind me what "this time" is.  Some of these coaches did turn up in the Valleys but probably not until wartime, when the sets allocated to London were broken up and dispersed.  London set 25, comprising BTs 4977/8 and Cs 6387/8, became Cardiff set 27 according to an ancient issue of the Railway Observer.  Composites 6242 and 6628 were also noted in Cardiff but the writer of the note neglected to identify the other vehicles in the sets.  There was a war on, you know.  After the introduction of the interval service in 1953 the Cardiff sets were reformed into "standard 5 coach" sets and all kinds of everything could be seen.

 

HTH

 

Chris

Thanks Chris,

"This time" in my case is 1929 (ish) hence the choice of livery, so it looks like I'll have to bend history a bit and have a set sent to cardiff for trials.

Adrian

I have plenty of HMRS pressfix garter logos for carriages and engines - 4mm.

 

PM me your address and I'll stick em in the post when I get Home.

 

Got Shirtbutons too needing a home......

Thanks for the offer. I have a good stock of garter crests too as most of my coach builds have been in twin shield livery.

I have two sets of the sides and bogies from 247 developments (no-longer in production) for the suburban bow ended stock of 1927. The Composites to Diagram E131 and the brake thirds to diagram D.98.

I am now thinking about trying to build these into complete coaches and wondered if anyone could help clarify a few points.

Location of underframe equipment as assessed from Pictures in Russel GWR coaches Vol 2 and GWR coacehs Appendix vol 1.

Brake third (Appemdix fig. 227/228 :

Large battery boxes at either end of trussing on the side with the van end on the right, vac cylinder on smae side to left of left hand queen post. Vac cylinder on other side just outboard of last compartment. Dynamo on other side at compartment end. Foot steps for guard on both sides / off centre to left of guard's door.

Composite (Coaches Vol 2 fig 243/244):

Large battery boxes on both sides at 1st class end. Small battery box to right of right hand queen post onthe  side with 1st on left, only on this side, Dynamo this side too at 3rd class end. Vac cylinder on this side under centre 1st class compartment.

Does anyone have other pictures (knowledge) from this period (or otherwise) that can confirm this arrangement (especially whether the composites have large boxes on both sides)?

Also regarding the livery; I rather fancy the early livery with garter crest but simple chocolate and cream. Did this livery have any lining between the chocolate and cream? I cannot distinguish any in the book photos.

I am planning on making a four coach train - Van Third - Compo - Compo - Van third. They would only be 2 years old when my layout is set so may still be together?  I have afeeling they were not used in the Welsh Valley's at this time but its my train set..........

If you find out during your repaints of these I'd be interested to know if there is a way to remove the double waist lining without compromising the rest of the paintwork. Be dead handy if I could modify some into the earlier 1928-29 lining (no liningat all?).

Am I right to presume the corridor handrail is printed onto the inside of the glazing?

They do look vey convincing.

I have been working on the platforms recently. Looking at photo's of the variuos Rhymney stations there again appears to be little uniformity but relatively small edging slabs seem to be common.

The main platform structures are 3mm card faced on the front with Slaters plasticard stone.

To represent the edging slabs I used some 15 thou plasticard to make the individual tops of the edging slabs and a strip of the same material along the front edge of the platform overhang. This enabled the gentle curve of the platforms to be followed. The plastic was bonded to the card with liquid solvent. The remaining joint lines have now been scribed on.

Along the back edge a narrower strip was employed with virtually no overhang, The goods shed line passes along here so I will put  a safety fence along the back of the platforms.

I am unsure what surface to give the platforms, the photographs I have (in varius books) are not very clear. The area under the canopy and possibly out as far as the "gents" entrance seems to have ususlly been covered with slabs (stone presumably) but the rest is just dark and slightly textured.

Would this have been likely to be ash/cinders, gravel or tarmac in 1929-30?

So to bring things more or less up to date.

Here is the station under construction earlier last week. Platforms are 3mm card and the canopy is unfinished and propped up on a box.

This is the tunnel mouth where the main line appears. The 56xx is standing in the headshunt which is at a higher level, being level with the station area rather than falling away down the valley as the main line does.

Lastly a view of my 5205 arriving on a train of empties (The loco needs weathering!). On the right the line up to the collieries can be seen, on the left the headshunt with the 56xx waiting.

Happy New Year to one and all.

I'm flattered. The signal box looks Rhymney. Is it a Ratio kit with Wills random rubble?

 

Spot on.

I bought the standard Ratio box and rebuilt the brick areas in Wills random stone extending upwards to the window frames as this appears to be standard on the rhymney boxes. There is a scratch built entrance at the left hand end and the stairs and balcony were rearranged to suit. The left over brickwork from the ratio kit has been reused elsewhere.

Back to the festivities with my family now.

Merry Christmas to all.

Last summer I started to work on the scenery along the back of the layout. From left to right this comprises a cutting for the collliery incline and a tunnel openeing for the main. The hillside then follows along as if cut back until just before the signal box. From here on it is assumed that the exchange sidings were cut back into the hillside after the original station was built, resulting in a retaining wall being needed.

The signal box end.

The retaining wall version 1. This was on ceral packet card using scalescenes papers. I thought it had gone rather too brown, and the across baseboard joint was badly aligned, so this year I ripped this one out and replaced it.

The ground contours are simply expanded polystyrene packing pieces stuck together with hot glue (from a mini hot glue gun). The whole lot covered with plaster bandage and Woodland Scenics "Hydrocal" plaster. Rock faces were cast using Hydrocal and Woodland scenics molds.

I look forward to following this forum. The railways of South Wales are greatly over-looked as a prototype for modelling. Constricted sites, often with lines and stations built on narrow ledges cut into the sides of the valleys, steep gradients, sharp curves, a plethora of industrial opportunities, short tank locos including pre-Grouping designs running into the 1950s and even 1960s, clearly defined traffic flows and intensive operating potential. My own effort is in 0 gauge and is called Cwm Bach. The story can be read here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80426-cwm-bach-a-south-wales-branch-line/page-1  If you don't want to read, then there is a photo gallery here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/3798-cwm-bach-by-chris-klein/

Thanks, I have been following your Cwm-bach layout thread for a while and it was instrumental in encouraging me to start my own.

Thanks for the support Oldoak and others.

Here is a shot of the station throat early in it's development. The view above is looking towards the terminus. On the left is the incline to the off stage collieries, centre the main running line leading into the station platform where the auotocoach is standing, on the right the headshunt and two road goods yard.

Here is the signal box, checking it's position.

And an early mock up of the station area. The green piece of wood in the foreground was being used to test ideas on how much platform to put around the end of the goods shed road.

Trackwoork is laid on C&L closed cell foam and ballasted (a combination of C&L dark grey and ash ballasts) as it was stuck down, as per Normon Solomon's descriptions in Model Railway Journal.

Electronics are DC with twin controllers (Morely Controls), the idea being that the colliery sidings could be operated independently of the station except for the shared run around.