Signalling Saltfleet - on the bench

[Dave-5-5-7]

There was a bit of a shuffle round with the layout, the unit that was forming the control panel back was far to large to have been an efficient use of space, so I moved it. I also moved the relay cabinet to a better location. This gave me a slightly smaller area to use. The diagram was printed over the weekend, at the moment just onto A4 120gsm card so I can locate the switch and indicator holes. It's been mounted. The plan at payday is to have it printed, and then mount on this backing, with a Perspex overlap to protect the print. 

 

 

 

[Dave-5-5-7]

Bit of a while since the last post, things have altered a little bit. Permission has been granted to take the railway outside into the garden so whilst the layout internally hasn't changed much, the main lines have been reconfigured for a longer run with some Auto signals. I'm now looking into getting the panel printed onto plastic, steel or aluminium. 
In other news point motor solenoids controlled by an arduino with position feedback is underway with code being compiled as time allows. The Train Describers are also being developed. 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Dave-5-5-7
incorrect diagram

[5BarVT]

Just looked at your U and D autos.  I’m fairly sure that the numbers were mileage related so would both increase in the same direction rather than in direction of travel.  Out of Liverpool St and on North Tyne loop which were 50s/60s schemes they did and I think they did elsewhere.

Paul.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

Just looked at your U and D autos.  I’m fairly sure that the numbers were mileage related so would both increase in the same direction rather than in direction of travel.  Out of Liverpool St and on North Tyne loop which were 50s/60s schemes they did and I think they did elsewhere.

Paul.

ER and NER(egion) autos followed LNER practice and were numbered according to mileage and the WR did the same - all with linre identifier ptrefix letter such as 'U' and 'D' or thinsg like 'UM' or 'UF' etc.   SR practice was different and South Eastern Section autos were simply prefixed 'A', Central Section were prefixed 'CA' and Western Section were prefixed 'WA' and this practice definitely continued into all the 1960s and some of the 1970s schemes (I say some 1970s because I don't have details for all of them).  the numbers were not mileage related.

 

The scR a;lso appears to have used mileage based numbering of autos in 1960s schemes together with a line identifier letter like the ER etc.  But all the LMR schemes carried out from the 1960s onwards (and possibly earlier) numbered autos with teh relevant signal box letter to which their 'phone connected plus sequencing the numbers in the general 'box's number sequence.

 

the bug change really seemed to come with IECC schemes and by the 1990s the standard practice across BR was to use the supervising signalbox's ID letters as per LMR practice. (The WR had still been using the old system in 1980s schemes.  As an operator I much preferred the ER/WR method as it immediately identiofied an auto to a particular line and told you more or less where it was instead of having to go to a drawing to find out its location.)

[bécasse]

Southern Region practice had definitely changed by the time of the London Bridge scheme in the mid-1970s for which all signals received new-style (white on black) plates with L numbers.

 

Further checking suggests that the London Bridge scheme was the first on the Southern to adopt the new style numbering. Certainly the Dartford scheme earlier in the same decade had signals numbered in accordance with traditional Southern principles.

 

Incidentally, it wasn't just automatic signals on the Central and South Western Divisions that had C and W prefixes as all the signal box codes on those divisions were also so prefixed and thus never comprised less than two letters and quite often three.

 

In respect of automatic signals, it should be remembered that, until emergency replacers appeared on the scene, signal boxes had no control whatsoever over them and that, at least originally on the Southern, trains held overlong at them were required to pass the red aspect and proceed cautiously to the next fixed signal (or an obstruction or hand signal).

Edited October 9, 2021 by bécasse

[Dave-5-5-7]

On 09/10/2021 at 09:35, 5BarVT said:

Just looked at your U and D autos.  I’m fairly sure that the numbers were mileage related so would both increase in the same direction rather than in direction of travel.  Out of Liverpool St and on North Tyne loop which were 50s/60s schemes they did and I think they did elsewhere.

Paul.

 I've opted for a 1980s/1990s numbering scheme like what was seen when Lincoln West Holmes took over Boultham and Pyewipe Junctions and worked to Swinderby. The extra signals on the Midland were simply number 101-104, evens on one line, odds on the other. 

 

[Dave-5-5-7]

I've also realised I put the wrong diagram up. I hadn't updated the PNG version I use for the forum. This should've been uploaded. It incorporated a garden section that runs to the end of the garden and returns. 

The Junction for Mablethorpe is now in the hands of the other signalbox. 
 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Dave-5-5-7

[5BarVT]

9 hours ago, Dave-5-5-7 said:

 I've opted for a 1980s/1990s numbering scheme like what was seen when Lincoln West Holmes took over Boultham and Pyewipe Junctions and worked to Swinderby. The extra signals on the Midland were simply number 101-104, evens on one line, odds on the other. 

Interesting!  Starting at 100 for switches on a block shelf is a long-standing practice, but combining that with U and D identifiers rather than the box prefix is new to me.  My records are post Lincoln SCC so the signals all have NL numbers apart from the approach to Swinderby which was (still is?) SY104.

I do like what your doing, building a relay interlocking as you are would be in the too difficult box for me!  Keep up the good work.

 

Paul.

[Dave-5-5-7]

On 13/10/2021 at 09:02, 5BarVT said:

Interesting!  Starting at 100 for switches on a block shelf is a long-standing practice, but combining that with U and D identifiers rather than the box prefix is new to me.  My records are post Lincoln SCC so the signals all have NL numbers apart from the approach to Swinderby which was (still is?) SY104.

I do like what your doing, building a relay interlocking as you are would be in the too difficult box for me!  Keep up the good work.

 

Paul.

Swinderby is still there, it's the last outpost of mechanical signalling. Lincoln SCC to the East, Doncaster PSB to the west. 

I relooked at the diagrams I had for West Holmes, there was no U/D prefix, I was struggling to recall where I saw them, it was Gainsborough Trent, all the Up Auto signals were prefixed U. Anyway I've done away with them. 

 

 

[Dave-5-5-7]

There has been another slight addition, last one I promise. Really... the diagram is away to be printed as we speak. The Assistant S&T Engineer/signalman wanted to know "Where is my signal box dad?" given he is only 5 he's keen. 

 

as the outside line is going to run passed his play house, I'm putting in a couple of sidings and a box that is "open as required" with modified working as he doesn't fully understand headcodes and train describers just yet. 

 

So this is the diagram as it stands. 

With the exception of any mistakes that someone spots in the next 48 hours, the diagram is being printed. 

 

 

additionally, the first two signals are installed. ML225 and ML211 are now in and "working" (working as held at danger as the points aren't feeding their position back yet. Excuse the wires strewn everywhere, 

 

 

 

[LNERGE]

Ah someone else who has overscale signals…

[Dave-5-5-7]

4 minutes ago, LNERGE said:

Ah someone else who has overscale signals…

temporary until I find something better. Not a fan of the train tech stuff, Eckon/Berko are a bit better. Eventual plan is Absolute Aspect stuff

 

[LNERGE]

Not them. There’s a bigger two aspect in one of the shots. 

[Dave-5-5-7]

24 minutes ago, LNERGE said:

Not them. There’s a bigger two aspect in one of the shots. 

 

Ah yes, special commission from you know who lol 

[LNERGE]

Super stuff. What opperates the arm?

[Dave-5-5-7]

9 minutes ago, LNERGE said:

Super stuff. What opperates the arm?

at the minute a stepper motor, a micro switch is activated bringing the yellow aspect up, a toggle switch gives me a green, although it's all dismantled at the minute. 

[LNERGE]

Marvellous. A very interesting signal.

[Dave-5-5-7]

The panel arrived yesterday, a day early. The holes have been drilled, the LED holders are in and switches are going in tomorrow. 

 

 

 

Work has started on the other side of the layout, the second signal box. This was going to be a yard, but I've decided to put Mablethorpe there instead. 

Still a lot to work on this one. NX Panel with describers

 

and Theddlethorpe PS box. Intermediate box normally switched out but playable with by a 6 year old.

 

[Dave-5-5-7]

Switches are in, I need some more red capped and yellow capped knobs for the switches. The resistor board is under construction for the indicator lamps. 

 

[5BarVT]

A panel to die for!  Just don't go changing the layout, paper patches spoil the look, no matter how prototypical.

Paul.

[Dave-5-5-7]

...and here is the latest. Christmas and family meant nothing was done for several weeks with the exception of fitting the LEDs to the panel during quiet patches at work. 

The panel is now fitted, the track circuit relays are in, as they're not installed on the track yet, everything is showing occupied. Not a bad thing really as it allows me to check the indicators as I go. So far I've found one dodgy bit of wiring on the UP, and a faulty LED on the DOWN. A blown LED was noted on 1214B Rev as well. The rest of them will be going in this week. 
The point detection relays are being wired up for the station point work ready for the outside lines to go on over the Spring/Summer and the Arduino for the motor servos is being written. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Dave-5-5-7

[LNERGE]

41 minutes ago, Dave-5-5-7 said:

...and here is the latest. Christmas and family meant nothing was done for several weeks with the exception of fitting the LEDs to the panel during quiet patches at work. 

The panel is now fitted, the track circuit relays are in, as they're not installed on the track yet, everything is showing occupied. Not a bad thing really as it allows me to check the indicators as I go. So far I've found one dodgy bit of wiring on the UP, and a faulty LED on the DOWN. A blown LED was noted on 1214B Rev as well. The rest of them will be going in this week. 
The point detection relays are being wired up for the station point work ready for the outside lines to go on over the Spring/Summer and the Arduino for the motor servos is being written. 

Let’s hope this is the only time you see this many tracks occupied. 
 

Looking magnificent. 

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, LNERGE said:

Let’s hope this is the only time you see this many tracks occupied. 
 

 

A good few years back i was offered up as 'guinea pig sort of signalman' fora factory of a new computer screen based signalling control system as the designers wanted to see how a real operator would take to the system which was the first they were going to deliver for a UK installation.  So I had brief familiarisation session and the option - which i could change from one to t'other as I went - of using either a trackerball anda couple of press buttons or an extremely impressive mouse, beautiful thing to use and fitted my hand spot on.  Anyway off we went through various tests, with an ergonomist from the company I was working for noting whatever it is that ergonomists take note of, doing all the everyday things like calling and cancelling routes, individual point control  and so on.

 

 Then we moved to faults and failures - and every 'track circuit' - actually axle counter sections - on one of the two screens (the country end) went red.  Then I frightened myself stiff - because the software made it ridiculously simple to reset the whole lot, all in one go, no selection of individual sections, with a couple of clicks of the mouse irrespective of which sections had really been occupied prior to the failure.  The designers got a very stiff talking to about the ease with which a faultre could be cleared so had to rewrite the software for clearing that sort of failure

 

[Michael Hodgson]

A real signalman would appreciate how easy it is at end of his shift - don't worry about a relief not turning up on time and trains still in section - just turn the whole lot off by the flick of a switch and go home!

[Michael Hodgson]

14 hours ago, LNERGE said:

Let’s hope this is the only time you see this many tracks occupied. 
 

Looking magnificent. 

Oh, I dunno - all those pretty lights - saves putting up Xmas decorations - there aren't supposed to be any trains Xmas Day anyway

... but, yes, it does look magnificent.