Down Under Work Bench

[Sithlord75]

I thought the time had come to start my own workbench thread.  The chief reason for this is I managed to get the last bit of kit needed to start on one of the four (I think - I'm at work) LNWR Coal Tank etches which have been sitting in the gloat since they were produced back in I think 2016.

 

The last bit of kit I needed was Courage - the courage to actually stop looking at the bits and actually start putting part B onto Part A and repeating.  Funnily enough it was one of my year 11 design students who, in asking for help and admitting she didn't know (thereby demonstrating courage) which reminded me the greatest risk of all is to take no risks and not learn anything.

 

So with this in mind, I got the Chinese food container containing all the bits I had gathered to complete 1 Coal Tank out of the cupboard and, armed with the iPad to check the Test Build Thread elsewhere in the forum I made a start.

 

Now at this point I should mentioned this is the first loco kit I have built in 2mm scale.  The previous experience is: drop in wheels in a Class 24, drop in wheels in a Class 108, putting wheels turned by A. N. Other into a Class 22, the Jinty conversion kit and a couple of weak attempts at building a working chassis to go under resin bodies.  I have chosen to go the body first chassis second route, for no other reason than I have built enough wagon bodies to have confidence in building the body to an acceptable standard.  

 

The first thing I did was lightly scribe a line on the inside of the back plate of the cab to help line up the tool box and coal space doors.  These were tinned and then fitted - it turns out I slightly over tinned the bits and a bit of solder seeped out but a wire brush in the mini-drill sorted that out pretty well.

 

 

Turning the etch over (so far 3 Part B's added to Part A - I thought it might be fun to keep track of how many bits got added to each other) I put the rims on the spectacle plates (going with the early type as I'm planning on finishing this one in LNWR livery) and fashioned the back of the coal door out of some flat wire - this tip was from the test build and the photos of the prototype linked there.  Very useful.

 

 

So being satisfied that a good start had been made (admittedly on a fairly easy set of parts) I then carefully removed the footplate from the etch and the bits from around the foot plate.  This was a fairly delicate operation as the clearances in 2mm for the shot down etch were very tight however eventually it was released from captivity.  The next challenge was to identify some of the bits - a lack of clear instructions (I think I was emailed the 4mm ones at some point but can't find them at the present time) hampered this but checking the pictures of other builds and a bit of deductive reasoning soon sorted the next parts out.

 

As can be seen below, there was a bit of bending on the footplate from the removal process but hopefully nothing too catastrophic.

 

 

Having resolved to take pictures of each step when I started (and having gotten to double figures of the Part B attached to Part A) I then got a bit carried away and didn't actually photograph the next couple of steps.  I opened out the holes at each end of the footplate to 1.15mm and soldered some 12BA nuts in place to attach the chassis later (at least that's the plan - it seems to be what was done else where, so hopefully I haven't gone down a dead end which proves later to be troublesome - at least there is a chance someone will pipe up now and I can sort it) and fitted the bunker back to the cab back and the whole onto the foot plate (so part B went up 4 more bits).  I then formed one of the side tanks and fitted it before Management called Time. 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Sithlord75
Replacing pictures

[queensquare]

Morning Kevin, great to see you have taken the plunge and made a start on a loco. Looking good so far, can I offer a couple of suggestions.

 

Firstly, before going any further I would cut yourself a base of thin ply or MDF which you can bolt the footplate to. This will ensure it stays flat whilst you assemble the body above it. I would also get the valances and buffer beams on and flat before you go much further, a flat base is essential - a twisted footplate can easily pull an otherwise square chassis out when the two are bolted together. Ive trawled the snaps I take when building locos to show the sort of thing I mean. I find it really useful even on prototypes with a flat footplate, on those like the 483 or 7F which have multiple levels its essential. The 483 shown has a ply base with some thin card built up under the raised section so that the entire footplate is supported.

 

Secondly, once you have the basic body shape together (leave the boiler loose), get the chassis frames together so that you can check clearances. Get some suitably bits of plastic tube so you can pop the wheels in and out easily whilst checking everything fits. The reason for leaving the boiler loose is firstly, so you can see what's going on when you offer the body to the chassis and secondly that the boiler often needs bits ground away to clear drive gears etc - much more easily done before fitting.

 

Hope thats useful.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

[Caley Jim]

I was once advised to only attach the body to the chassis with one bolt. No matter how careful you are (and Jerry's advice is important) even the slightest miss-match can distort the chassis and compromise running. 

 

Jim 

[Sithlord75]

Thanks both - I did actually do some more work tonight but didn't put the bit of ply/mdf under it.  I'll sort that tomorrow and do an update.

[Sithlord75]

So having not read the excellent advice from @queensquare until after stumps on night 2, I didn't put the plate in, but given I've a few to build I will make up one this afternoon.  I've been pretty pleased with the progress on this - so much so I think it may be worth going through the batch - although I don't have all the wheel sets and have a self imposed ban on purchases until April.  The wheel sets may come home from Derby in June.

 

Last night was Knitting Club and so some more work was undertaken.  Somehow I have managed to lose one of the side tanks - no I don't know how a piece that big can vanish and even after a though clean of the workbench, a search through the waste bin (which included tipping it out) it didn't show up.  I pinched one from one of the other kits (I got 4 it turns out to build three locos but I never thought I'd need the spares for a major piece) and got on with it.  I will see how I go in making a replacement tank for loco 4 - should have my eye in by then.

 

I took the front nut off as it turns out I got solder in the thread and managed to break the bolt I was putting in to check clearence - I've since read Dr Nick's notes a bit closer and will sort it by using the cocktail stick.  I'll use these two nuts to put the body on the ply piece as recommended by Jerry.  The coal rails didn't have lines to bend them on and it turns out my measuring wasn't as accurate the first time so they ended up slightly dishevelled - I'm not too worried as in real life they were bashed by lumps of coal anyway and the model isn't as big as the photos.

 

 

 

Unlike Nick, I decided to carefully drill holes for the handrails in the bunker top - very tedious and started using a dress pin to get the dimple in.  My stock of 0.3mm drills is fairly small but I didn't break any on this or the four holes in the tank top etch.  I am planning on using the N Brass Locos cast fittings - I am aware of their shortcomings for a 2mm scale loco (and potentially for an N scale one too) but as I presently don't have any lathe skills, and the brass will be heavier than any CAD designed resin printed fittings, I'll stick with them.

 

 

 

And so stumps on the Second Day - I suspect this test match will go the full five days and will probably end up being longer than the recent Ashes series in terms of time played but all in all, coming along nicely I think.  The real challenge will begin when I turn my attention to the chassis.  The next steps I have in mind is to finish the cab and put the remaining couple of handrails in and then look at the chassis.  I've both the original and the Chris Higgs' designed replacement so plenty of scope for getting at least one right!

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Sithlord75
Replacing pictures

[Sithlord75]

LAG meeting today so the progress was admired by those present.  Further progress (and regress) tonight.

 

Progress - I made the wooden erecting platform as suggested by Jerry - it needs some tweaking still I think as I’ve got it too wide to put the valences on ( using some brass as suggested by @Nick Mitchellin his handy instructions although looking at what he did extra is a “little” daunting!) but easy enough to fix tomorrow on the sander.

 

I made a start on the front of the cab during the meeting - the spectacles were rimmed and the side sheets removed from the etch and cleaned up (about normal for two hours of AG time I’d reckon!).  I soldered these together tonight and wound up with regress.  
 

This regress occurred when I tried to just, ever so slightly, move the cab towards being more 90d at the corner than 89.5.  Now I don’t know if it was 89.5 or worse but it was enough for me to notice and for it to look wrong.  The problem was, as I applied the just, ever so slightly force, it was fractionally too many Newton’s and the result was the crease and buckle the very thin cab side.  Cue much swearing, turning of iron and having a restorative cuppa.  Turn iron back on, desolder and straighten as best I could and have another go.  I keep reminding myself I’ve only got to get 3 good ones out of the four (and there may be still etches available).  Still, I was not expecting such a rookie error to be the cause of the problem.

 

As it happens, I am learning a few things not to do next time, and that’s kind of the point.  I did consider LMS buffers when I decided to add the rear buffer beam to allow for the worn and weary appearance this body will undoubtedly portray but then I thought a loco built in the 19th century running in the post Great War years prior to grouping isn’t a spring chicken so Webb buffers it is.

 

I forgot to take progress shots tonight - typical of my builds as it happens as I start getting into it - so you’ll just have to have the Stumps Day 3 shot.  No play last night as I was tidying for the LAG meeting.

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Sithlord75

[Sithlord75]

I added some brass L girder to the footplate as the valence and it helped enormously to stiffen the front.  So much so I think I’ll see about putting some on the footplate before I cut it off the next time - it maybe an issue with the buffer beams so it may not work, but it’s a thought.  Older wiser heads may advise against.  Front buffer beam added as shown.
 

I’m not entirely sure where this whitemetal casting comes from but it is in a bag maked LNWR Coal Tank so I put it in to see how things were going at it looks the part - so spirits lifted, as it appears I haven’t made a total hash yet.

 

I next turned attention to the collection of cast brass fittings and noticing that @Nick Mitchelland others felt the N Brass ones weren’t up to it, I went and dug out my copy of Talbot’s “An Illustrated History of LNWR Engines” to see what the drawings suggested.  The resulting measurements showed the tank filler I had was good for a 4mm model so it had to be fixed.  I do have a lathe - it’s visiting at present so isn’t available and I’ve not really done anything on it so I went with the Fonly idea as seen below.  Some careful application of a selection of files later and the casting was a much better size.

 

Similar effort with file and sanding disc resulted in the tool boxes being better fits.

 

and being happy with the three pieces they were soldered to an increasingly larger Part A.

Finally, a shot of what I’m aiming for - 7709 (turns out I need to change the buffers and safety valves having found picture of it on the St Albans branch) is a John Greenwood built N gauge one which I got from Alastair Knox last year.  It has proved very handy in trying to work out what part of the etch is what.  My understanding is John scratch built rather than kit.

 

 

I’ll leave the body now until I’ve sorted the chassis - the really intimidating part from my point of view.  I’ve got both the Chris Higgs and LRM versions and both have been shown to work.  I’m in two minds which to try first.

[65179]

1 hour ago, Sithlord75 said:

I added some brass L girder to the footplate as the valence and it helped enormously to stiffen the front.  So much so I think I’ll see about putting some on the footplate before I cut it off the next time - it maybe an issue with the buffer beams so it may not work, but it’s a thought.  Older wiser heads may advise against. 

 

You're making rapid progress with this Kevin.

 

I'm not counting myself as wiser, but, as was mentioned upthread, any way of keeping your nice flat running plate flat is a good thing. Adding the valances early and carefully is certainly the best way to do this with most models. If you choose to do it on this etch or any other in the future then the things off the top of my head to look out for are:

- how well-restrained is the footplate by its tabs, i.e. will it bend up like a banana when you put heat through it even if you follow good practice and solder from one end to the other.

 

- (for other etches) are there any modifications to be made before starting. This generally applies wherever you have large chunks to cut away to make way for a motor in tenders or tank locos and doing this with a slitting disc and a maniacal expression after assembly is likely to end badly.

 

- (for other etches) do you need to fold up splashers or something else small-ish which is integral to the running plate. If so it may be easier prior to adding the valances. Someone I know well (cough) moved rapidly from their 2nd to 3rd 4F footplates after having the bright idea to keep everything flat by adding the valances first. The running plate ended up with some interesting ripples.

 

- there's also the multi-layered footplate 2mm scale kits by people like Bob Jones where adding the valances obviously comes after folding up the sub-running plate and adding overlays.

 

Simon

 

[Caley Jim]

3 hours ago, 65179 said:

- how well-restrained is the footplate by its tabs, i.e. will it bend up like a banana when you put heat through it even if you follow good practice and solder from one end to the other.

My own preference is to start soldering on long pieces, like valences, from the centre.  That was you'll have less expansion when you get to the end.

 

Jim

[garethashenden]

I think the Chris Higgs chassis would be easier to build. It was designed for 2mm Association parts and a split chassis electrical pickup from the start, where as the LRM one wasn't.

[65179]

4 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

My own preference is to start soldering on long pieces, like valences, from the centre.  That was you'll have less expansion when you get to the end.

 

Jim

 

Whatever suits the location Jim. I just meant not soldering the two ends first and then doing the middle.

 

Simon

[Sithlord75]

Day off yesterday from the soldering iron.  Started dabbling in drawing etches instead.  Back to the workbench tonight however and I made a start on the Chris Higgs designed chassis, using the instructions on the conversion chassis as a guide (since it doesn’t appear any of the preceding Coal tank builders used this chassis or if they did, they haven’t documented it).

First up was to solder the bearings in.  A little bit of a rotation with a rat file was enough to get them to click in.

 

There is a jig on the etch to put the bits in for spacing and retrospectively I probably should have used it rather than what I chose to do but I like doing as much as possible flat so I added the overlays - making the frames a little too big for the slots in the jig.  I folded down the spacer supports and spot for the motor and went looking for my chassis building jig.

 

 

The picture below shows me about to put the last bit of copper clad fibreglass on having forgotten to take photos at first.  I’ve modified one of the spacers to have a large flat spot so it fits in more spots.  Without doing this, I could only fit one of the spacers.  The PCB is single sided and very thin - 0.5mm I think - but in small bits seems to do the job.  First time trying anyway and so far so good.

Stumps pic (actually knocked off to acknowledge 22:22 on the 22/2/22) shows the body sitting on the frames with the wheels in position.  Still a bit to do but if nothing else, I reckon from here I can have a static model - maybe of 1054 with a tarp over it in preservation!!

 

[DavidLong]

Kevin,

 

I think that those boiler fittings are possibly some that were produced by Mike Bryant many years ago, possibly in the 1990s. How they have ended up in Queensland may be one of life's mysteries!

Some nice work here. Is this for the long promised St Albans Abbey?

 

David

 

[Sithlord75]

I think you're correct with your supposition David.  I'll have to find the packet as it may tell me more.  And yes, the loco will (assuming it is finished to a running standard) get a number belonging to one of the 3 I have record of in LNWR days at St Albans.  I've almost completed the Templot of the station too.

[Sithlord75]

Some weeks have passed since I last posted and as I was explaining to the ZAG this morning (or evening - adjust as appropriate) a few days after the last post, we had a significant flooding event here in South East Queensland which put over 5 feet of water through our retirement property.  This has obviously been taking quite a bit of time (and money) to sort out and I haven't really felt like getting much modelling done.  I've tried to do various bits and pieces and I guess the sum of the total is such that had I taken some before and after shots (allowing for the befores to be weeks ago) there would be things to show, but I didn't take the befores, so the context of the afters will be missing.

 

However, I feel I have managed to get back on the horse so to speak in the last couple of days - a plane trip looming on the 6th of next month with an exhibition to attend as an exhibitor tends to help focus the mind as deadlines often do.

 

I managed to get some paint on some wagon bodies which have been sitting on the workbench since February - a pair of LNWR D33s, a D88 and a D103.  They still need the black bits done but at least they are moving along the production line.

 

I built a pair of  MR 9' chassis (2-342) which is my preferred option for going under my home brew PoW wagons during the ZAG.  With any degree of luck, the other 8 chassis will be dealt with this week and then there are the chassis for the collection of LMS vans.  But the main goal is to finish the DJLC and the associated locos.

 

Photos when I manage to get my new camera to talk to the computer (or find the card reader - which ever happens first).

Edited May 15, 2022 by Sithlord75

[DavidLong]

Be good to see you again next month, Kevin. You're becoming quite the regular at Association events. I hope you realise that we will be quite disappointed if you don't make it to the NEAG's 40th anniversary bash in September😀

 

David

[Sithlord75]

I seem to have managed to sort out the photo issue I was having and so some of the workbench efforts from the last week are as follows:

 

A pair of Yeovil Gas Works wagons (which aren't going to make it to Derby as they'll be staying at Clayworth).

 

 

A pair of Carlton wagons are the start of around 20 I'm building for the as yet unstarted St Alban's LNWR.  These have 3D printed buffers but I'm not convinced about their long term strength.  I suspect replacing them with brass will be something I'll have to do over time, as funds permit.

 

 

1923 RCH wagon - the others were all 1907 length.  Probably too late in the day for @queensquare to use but I'll get a photo of it placed at least, even if it doesn't stay.

 

I've also started a couple more Knight & Co wagons which maybe left behind as calling cards.  Tonight I'm hoping to finish the wiring on Ale Dock as the paint should be dry.

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Sithlord75
removed surplus photo

[Sithlord75]

I’ve had a bit of an enforced hiatus from the workbench - travelling to the DJ Expo in Derby and then having a week of catching up on everything I missed will do that!  However as it was a cold wet and miserable day in SEQ today management decreed a craft/hobby afternoon and so I decided to make a start on some of the packets which came home from Derby with me.

 

 

These five MR bodies were obtained to provide a bit of variety amongst the LNWR and GNR home teams.

 

A few hours later and voila:

 

 

The three vans in East Somerset Light Railway livery until I can get some chassis built for them - or obtained as I think the D362 goes on a 2-341 which isn’t in the present Shop 2 list.  
 

Cattle next - not sure if I’ve chassis for those either!!
 

[chrisveitch]

On 05/07/2022 at 13:14, Sithlord75 said:

I’ve had a bit of an enforced hiatus from the workbench - travelling to the DJ Expo in Derby and then having a week of catching up on everything I missed will do that! 

 

I'm assuming that the subtle change to your avatar means you managed to get in a trip to the Ffestiniog and a tour of Boston Lodge - hope you enjoyed it! 

[Sithlord75]

49 minutes ago, chrisveitch said:

 

I'm assuming that the subtle change to your avatar means you managed to get in a trip to the Ffestiniog and a tour of Boston Lodge - hope you enjoyed it! 

That was the 2016 Tour Chris!  Didn't get inside Boston Lodge this time (although visited the F&WHR) but got into the oldest continuously operating steam shed on the Talyllyn instead.

[chrisveitch]

1 hour ago, Sithlord75 said:

That was the 2016 Tour Chris!  Didn't get inside Boston Lodge this time (although visited the F&WHR) but got into the oldest continuously operating steam shed on the Talyllyn instead.

...hopefully I'll still be active on the FR for your 2028 trip then!

 

It was surprising how many people I talked to at Derby had an interest in the FR, I didn't expect that from a standard gauge modelling group. 

[2mmMark]

On 09/07/2022 at 12:36, chrisveitch said:

...hopefully I'll still be active on the FR for your 2028 trip then!

 

It was surprising how many people I talked to at Derby had an interest in the FR, I didn't expect that from a standard gauge modelling group. 

Summer of 1972 for a few weeks, I was a Deviationist.  Shovelling rock into Hudson skips is a great way to get fit.

Best ever railway memory was the trip by gravity in a Hudson bogie wagon from Ddualt to Minffordd early on a sunny August morning, in order to get the train home.  Almost as good was sitting at the rear of the 101 DMU (front was already taken) watching the Cambrian line unfold behind us.  At that time, it had barely changed from steam days.

[chrisveitch]

14 hours ago, 2mmMark said:

Best ever railway memory was the trip by gravity in a Hudson bogie wagon from Ddualt to Minffordd early on a sunny August morning, in order to get the train home. 

 

There's (probably) nothing like the magic of an early morning gravity train - although this one is pictured before the "gravity" bit...obviously. 

 

Incidentally @2mmMark, British Oak was one of the layouts I was really looking forward to seeing at Derby and to be honest I didn't take that much of it in as we were too busy talking about this stuff!

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by chrisveitch

[Sithlord75]

Since you mention NG stuff - here's some I prepared earlier!!

 

The tram is based on the Peco GVT kit - runs on the same chassis but is off my printer.  The tippers are from Shapeways - I want to see if I can work out how to have etched ones which work.  

 

The Double Fairlie I found on Thingiverse and did the maths to have it fit 6.5mm - I haven't worked out how to power it yet, and I think I need to manipulate the files a bit more but there is the possibility at least.

 

 

I took some of my N6.5 stuff with me to Derby but frustratingly, despite Mark having The Pizza there, didn't get a photo!!  I did however put the loco and carriages on Nick Bastable's DJLC entry.  There's a couple of photos over on his Line No 16 thread.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Sithlord75

[Sithlord75]

Back at work this week after 5 weeks off.  I have also managed to injure one of my fingers fairly badly (referred to a surgeon to discuss the crushed tip of my finger!) which has cramped my soldering a bit.

 

I did manage to get the two MR cattle wagon bodies in obtained in Derby built before work despite the finger injury but at a much slower rate.  These were admired in ESLR livery at today’s SEQAG meeting along with a  selection of photos from my DJ trip.

 

 

I had additions to the gloat box too recently when a package arrived from Wodonga containing more parts for the train shed at St Albans. Not sure when work will start on this but hopefully I do justice to Bruce’s art work.