Triang Hornby Hymek Class 35 motor

[barney121e]

So i have purchased a non running class 35. To be honest i thought it had a ringfield motor in it, but it seems to have one called a spider. A couple of questions about it.

 

Wondering if it is possible to change the motor for a ringfield one?

 

Looking forward to taking other motor apart and giving it a good clean to see if i can get it to run, hopefully will learn something along the way.

 

 

[33C]

Not an easy swap, but the "spider" motors are bomb proof. Clean/polish the copper where the brass top hat meets the offset tang and where the  brush meets the copper, adjust the pick ups to run flat against the wheel backs, clean the brushes (including the brass!), ensure the insulating sleeve is fitted on that brush side, oil the felt pads, if fitted, polish the armature and clean the carbon from the 3 grooves and, if you completely dismantle, don't lose the tiny ball bearings from the ends of the shaft! Clean the wheels (obvs). If it has additional pick ups on the trailing bogie, clean and polish these AND the axles. Don't forget the metal wheel on each axle needs a clean as well. After this it should run as good as new. I use these Hymek chassis in my EMU motor coaches for this reason!

[barney121e]

2 minutes ago, 33C said:

Not an easy swap, but the "spider" motors are bomb proof. Clean/polish the copper where the brass top hat meets the offset tang and where the  brush meets the copper, adjust the pick ups to run flat against the wheel backs, clean the brushes (including the brass!), ensure the insulating sleeve is fitted on that brush side, oil the felt pads, if fitted, polish the armature and clean the carbon from the 3 grooves and, if you completely dismantle, don't lose the tiny ball bearings from the ends of the shaft! Clean the wheels (obvs). If it has additional pick ups on the trailing bogie, clean and polish these AND the axles. Don't forget the metal wheel on each axle needs a clean as well. After this it should run as good as new. I use these Hymek chassis in my EMU motor coaches for this reason!

What product do you recommend to clean/polish the copper parts?

[DCB]

I don't think the ring field swap is practical short of changing the compete chassis, the spider attaches to the top hat above the magnet at roof level, the ring field supports the chassis at bottom of the body level.

The spider has a weakness in in the top hat moulding, they break up if contaminated with some oils.  The clip holding the contact down tends to snap off.   At least the 4 wheel bogie has a brass baseplate, the Long wheelbase  "6 wheel" version has a plastic baseplate which breaks up.   

The wheels are massively undersize and lack spokes but they can be changed fairly easily and the motor can be changed to 5 pole using the K's Mk 1 or 2 armature or the long Airfix one suitably shortened.  A Pair of spiders in a Hymek which really means using two complete chassis makes a good locos, quite a way short of a Heljan, but nice.  The worst feature as standard is probably that the power bogie is mazak and the non power bogie is plastic.

[33C]

1 hour ago, barney121e said:

What product do you recommend to clean/polish the copper parts?

I just use fine wet'n'dry sandpaper. Nothing fancy!

[SRman]

On 28/04/2022 at 07:30, DCB said:

I don't think the ring field swap is practical short of changing the compete chassis, the spider attaches to the top hat above the magnet at roof level, the ring field supports the chassis at bottom of the body level.

The spider has a weakness in in the top hat moulding, they break up if contaminated with some oils.  The clip holding the contact down tends to snap off.   At least the 4 wheel bogie has a brass baseplate, the Long wheelbase  "6 wheel" version has a plastic baseplate which breaks up.   

The wheels are massively undersize and lack spokes but they can be changed fairly easily and the motor can be changed to 5 pole using the K's Mk 1 or 2 armature or the long Airfix one suitably shortened.  A Pair of spiders in a Hymek which really means using two complete chassis makes a good locos, quite a way short of a Heljan, but nice.  The worst feature as standard is probably that the power bogie is mazak and the non power bogie is plastic.

I agree with everything said here.

I did a double-motored Hymek using two chassis cut and joined end to end (anyone need two unpowered ends?? 😂 ), and even converted it to DCC. It ran quite smoothly and quietly (not as quietly or smoothly as the Heljan version but still very good), and will also haul almost as much as a Heljan example. It has 8-wheel pickup and 8-wheel drive, with the pickups from both ends wired together and one TCS T1 decoder powering both motor bogies (the T1 has a good power rating as the Triang motors do consume more amps than most newer mechanisms).

I would prefer this older 'spider' motor bogie over the ringfield any day, and I do like my much newer mechanisms, so I'm not saying that because I'm stuck in the mud of old things. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by SRman
Correcting typos

[RedgateModels]

11 hours ago, barney121e said:

 

 

Looking forward to taking other motor apart and giving it a good clean to see if i can get it to run, hopefully will learn something along the way.

 

 

 

Be careful, it's almost impossible to get the armature out without disturbing the magnet which will probably weaken it. Brushes and "Top Hat" mouldings are available from Peters Spares though so there's nothing apart from a blown armature stopping you getting it running. PM me if you want me to look at it for you www.redgatemodels.co.uk

 

I agree with the others, the EMB (Early Motor Bogie) or MK III motor bogie is far superior to the later ringfield and with care will run forever :)

 

[andyman7]

The service sheet recommends using a 'keeper' for the magnet when dis-assembling the motor. This is also useful in ensuring that the magnet goes back in the same way round as otherwise the model will run in reverse!
I found that a flat metal weight did the job.  

[RedgateModels]

1 minute ago, andyman7 said:

The service sheet recommends using a 'keeper' for the magnet when dis-assembling the motor. This is also useful in ensuring that the magnet goes back in the same way round as otherwise the model will run in reverse!
I found that a flat metal weight did the job.  

 

Yes, I used to do this before I got a remagnetizer. Now I strip them down with gay abandon and zap them back to life once reassembled ;)

[barney121e]

Ok, now i'm a little confused. However will come back to that in a minute.

 

Firstly finally got a multimeter. Tested continuity on each wheel and one wasn't completing the circuit. As you can see from pic, it was the one on the bottom left . With a little wiggling managed to put back in right place and got continuity and train ran but it is having trouble staying in spot. Someone has done work on the top left one so my thinking is to maybe replace the plastic housing and re seat everything correctly. The copper contacts i think should be ok, but will see if i can get a replacement. 

 

Now a silly question. When power was on only one end of the worm motor, the thing on the bottom, ran. Is that because the other will work if running in reverse?

 

Now with regard to magnets, Should the magnet be replaced, or if motor is running should i just use one i have. And if it needs replacing, what do i get?

 

Cheers

 

PS Forgot to say, never done anything like this so well chuffed with myself so far.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by barney121e

[33C]

15 minutes ago, barney121e said:

Ok, now i'm a little confused. However will come back to that in a minute.

 

Firstly finally got a multimeter. Tested continuity on each wheel and one wasn't completing the circuit. As you can see from pic, it was the one on the bottom left . With a little wiggling managed to put back in right place and got continuity and train ran but it is having trouble staying in spot. Someone has done work on the top left one so my thinking is to maybe replace the plastic housing and re seat everything correctly. The copper contacts i think should be ok, but will see if i can get a replacement. 

 

Now a silly question. When power was on only one end of the worm motor, the thing on the bottom, ran. Is that because the other will work if running in reverse?

 

Now with regard to magnets, Should the magnet be replaced, or if motor is running should i just use one i have. And if it needs replacing, what do i get?

 

Cheers

 

PS Forgot to say, never done anything like this so well chuffed with myself so far.

 

 

Can you post a pic of the other side? 

[RedgateModels]

The copper pickup strips should be located on the "pips" on the left of the plastic "top hat" like the ones on the right. It may be that they have snapped off though?. As I said replacement top hats are available from Peter's Spares but you may be able to jury rig something by wedging some thin plastic between the pickup and the little plastic tabs on top next to where the pips are/should be.

 

Looks like with a little work you should have a runner :)

[barney121e]

1 minute ago, RedgateModels said:

The copper pickup strips should be located on the "pips" on the left of the plastic "top hat" like the ones on the right. It may be that they have snapped off though?. As I said replacement top hats are available from Peter's Spares but you may be able to jury rig something by wedging some thin plastic between the pickup and the little plastic tabs on top next to where the pips are/should be.

 

Looks like with a little work you should have a runner :)

Looks like someone has already had a go as the top left one has glue etc around it. Will sort out a top hat, thanks for your advice. I did find a broken bit of plastic, that makes sense.

 

10 minutes ago, 33C said:

Can you post a pic of the other side? 

Here you go.

 

 

 

[RedgateModels]

https://www.petersspares.com/peters-spares-ps95-replacement-Hornby-s5452-motor-housing.ir

[barney121e]

Also does anyone know what grit wet and dry sandpaper is recommended for cleaning parts. And what grease do people recommend?

[barney121e]

3 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

https://www.petersspares.com/peters-spares-ps95-replacement-Hornby-s5452-motor-housing.ir

One ordered.

[RedgateModels]

Just now, barney121e said:

Also does anyone know what grit wet and dry sandpaper is recommended for cleaning parts. And what grease do people recommend?

 

For very light cleaning of the commutator (the copper barrel shaped bit on the aramture) 1000 grit should be OK. Lubrication - I use Eileen's Emporium silcone "Model Oil" for bearings and silicone grease for gears

[33C]

1 hour ago, barney121e said:

Looks like someone has already had a go as the top left one has glue etc around it. Will sort out a top hat, thanks for your advice. I did find a broken bit of plastic, that makes sense.

 

Here you go.

 

 

 

You appear to be missing part no. S.3374. Housing contact washer from the top.

[RedgateModels]

11 minutes ago, 33C said:

You appear to be missing part no. S.3374. Housing contact washer from the top.

 

Good spot! @barney121e can you add one to your Peter's Spares order?

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by RedgateModels

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, barney121e said:

Looks like someone has already had a go as the top left one has glue etc around it. Will sort out a top hat, thanks for your advice. I did find a broken bit of plastic, that makes sense.

 

Here you go.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, 33C said:

You appear to be missing part no. S.3374. Housing contact washer from the top.

Yes - if you look carefully you will see that the brush arm on one side is pressed against the wheel pickup wiper on one side - the spring clip has an insulating sleeve on this side to prevent a short circuit. On the other side you will see that there is no direct contact with the wheel pickup wiper, because the spring clip itself forms the electrical contact with the brush arm. This circuit is completed by a copper washer with a tag that is screwed under the plastic 'top hat' moulding and clamps to the brush spring, with the tag making contact with the pickup wipers on the other side. Without this vital link, there is no complete circuit path and the mechanism will not run! However, the photo shows 'something' shoved under the pickup wiper and touching the brush arm - could this be some kind of bodge repair to try and bridge the missing link? 

Edited April 28, 2022 by andyman7

[barney121e]

15 minutes ago, 33C said:

You appear to be missing part no. S.3374. Housing contact washer from the top.

Thanks for pointing that out all. Set of 2 ordered.

[RedgateModels]

You only need one though, no idea why PS sell them in pairs ....

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by RedgateModels

[RedgateModels]

12 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

However, the photo shows 'something' shoved under the pickup wiper and touching the brush arm - could this be some kind of bodge repair to try and bridge the missing link? 

 

looks like a bit of brass 🙂

[barney121e]

 

2 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

 

looks like a bit of brass 🙂

Yes, thats what it looks like.

 

Does anyone know of a cleaning solution to clean the metal parts? Seen some parts soaked in a water solution, and came out very clean.

[PaulaDoesTrains]

6 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

 

For very light cleaning of the commutator (the copper barrel shaped bit on the aramture) 1000 grit should be OK. Lubrication - I use Eileen's Emporium silcone "Model Oil" for bearings and silicone grease for gears

 

I use T-Cut on a cotton bud. Much less abrasive than even 1000 grit wet-and-dry. Wiped off then blasted with contact cleaner to ensure that all residue has been removed.