Beardybloke Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Well, I didn't get around to entering the 2009 competition, so I thought I'd have a go at Challenge 2010 For a while now I've been thinking that my unfinished ironing board layout (Hafod Las) needs a bit of a revamp - it's been a work-in-progress now for over 18 months, but has been stalled for well over 12 of those. Apart from the fact that it's been knocked about in a couple of house moves (and the main building fell off a shelf an hasn't been the same since), I'm not too confident that the trackwork's up to scratch, especially since my two half-built locos are going to need a good standard! I'm not thinking a sequel, more a re-imagining - think Doom 3 rather than Doom 2... So the subject matter's going to remain the same - a quarry workshop (I may do it as a preserved one, as I was leaning towards the last time I gave it any serious consideration) but actually plan it this time, rather than let it grow at random! It has served quite a good purpose though, of testing my tracklaying and scenic skills (and finding some of them wanting!) Finally, using the 2010 principle as inspiration, I'm going to try and make the whole ironing board (or near enough) scenic, and develop some flavour of fiddle yard to either be cantilevered off or propped up by some other nefarious means. If anyone's interested, the original Hafod Las can be found on the old RMweb here: Linky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
invercloy Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I'm tempted to enter but not sure what to make... Then again, Dunbracken is eligible, but I guess that's cheating Glad to see the layout is getting a revamp, a deadline is a good kick up the proverbial to finish it too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Why don't you go for something completely different from PnC, like the 5.5mm you have talked about. t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
invercloy Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Why don't you go for something completely different from PnC, like the 5.5mm you have talked about. t. Maybe, but then I'll never get PnC built! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Maybe, but then I'll never get PnC built! Put the 5.5mm on hold for the 2011 challenge then Had a bit of a play with some ideas last night for the new Hafod Las - I may replace the slate tip at the front with one at the rear (or a quarry face) and have a slope/tip sloping downwards at the front, putting the workshops on a shelf in the Quarry rather than in a valley. The 'mill' will be replaced by a running shed - I'm going to use the one from Dinorwic as a model - and the workshops will remain broadly the same... though I'll include an engine house in it from the off. The key to it all will be planning ahead, rather than getting to a point and realising "oh b*gger, I need to hide that exit somehow". Both exits to the fiddle yard will be on the same side, one going to the quarry proper, and one towards the main line as with the original. My thinking is to have them passing through tunnels in an embankment similar to the ones in Dinorwic (somewhere on the linked photo thread) rather than through a bridge. I was never really happy with the bridge on Hafod Las Mk. 1 as it was very much of the "oh b*gger" variety outlined above, when I realised that I couldn't have a mill building buried under a slate tip... There'll be a little bit more trackwork than the original, but as I'm planning on a bigger baseboard area, I'm hoping to keep the impression of a spacious yard in a cramped location (if that makes sense?) I'll put up a rough track plan when I get around to drawing one, but comments and/or advice are welcomed - either suggestions to the ideas, or (especially!) how to attach a fiddle yard to the ironing board... Plus, I have a cunning plan to add some novelty value and extra operating potential, if possible... watch this space Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Right... a plan has been created from the rough sketches that I made last night! Hopefully my scrawl is visible and legible, as most of the pertinent points are scribbled on the plan itself. It's intended to be similar to the philosophy of HL1 - basically, a sea of grey rock, broken up by the odd patch of weeds or rust! Any opinions are welcomed, and indeed sought after, as I don't have an RMwebber for my housemate to use as a sounding board any more! This is the general plan, but I'm still not 100% sure of the trackwork - slips weren't that common in quarries, but I'm thinking that it might help to reduce the trackwork overall? I'm going to stick with documenting the development as a thread for now, as I'll probably lose any suggestions in the comments sections of a blog - a blog may follow later as things start getting screwed and glued together. Oh, and dimensions - it's not quite to scale, but I was working to roughly 6ft x 2ft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
invercloy Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 That looks really promising!! What about the space at the front? Is that where the slate might be extended along? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 That looks really promising!! What about the space at the front? Is that where the slate might be extended along? Aye, that's the thought - I'm thinking about having it sloping downwards rather than upwards, putting the yard on a 'shelf' that could fairly happily be a worked-out gallery rather than in the valley amongst slate tips that it was before. There probably won't be a great deal of slope, just enough to give the impression - maybe about 4 inches, increasing to 6 or 7 at the corner. The idea for the 'scrap' area spawned from the amount of spares that are in the Backwoods kit for Blanche - I could fairly happily have half of an 0-4-0 'Penrhyn Lady' sat quietly rusting in the weeds and rubble, along with some lengths of 'jubilee' track and other assorted PW mat?©riel. What do you reckon to the slip/crossing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cornelius Posted November 22, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2009 I like the plan, it will be good to see Hafod Las revived! I like the idea of emphasising the vertical dimension with the ground dropping away in the foreground but I can't think of many excuses to bring a "mainline" passenger train up to a gallery level. I would probably leave the slip out - the simpler the better with quarry trackwork. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 I like the plan, it will be good to see Hafod Las revived! I like the idea of emphasising the vertical dimension with the ground dropping away in the foreground but I can't think of many excuses to bring a "mainline" passenger train up to a gallery level. I would probably leave the slip out - the simpler the better with quarry trackwork. Aye, I think you're right about the slip/crossing - I'll move the crossover for the run-around loop back towards the embankment, and make a 'ladder' junction going from the running line to the loop line, then the workshop. Hopefully there'll be enough space, as I'm planning to use as large a radius of point as possible, to let Blanche run without modification. I wasn't planning on running a passenger service particularly - just leaving it open for the idea of a preserved workshop in the future. Currently it's envisaged as something like the Red Lion workshops on the Penrhyn system, or the mills tramroad on the Dinorwic - more of a main line than the average level, but not as main line as the PQR itself... if that makes sense? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 B&Q was raided on Sunday afternoon for some wood, and last night for some dowelling, bolts and screws (and a tenon saw, as my big hand saw probably isn't the best possible method of doing detail work...) I've still not figured out how I'm going to support it yet, but I'm reckoning on either screw-in legs, hinged ones or some slot-in ones... advice on this will be welcomed! One board will be cantilevered from the other, and I'm planning to have a separate cantilevered fiddle yard, cassette or sector plate at the other end. Current board size is 6' x 2', giving 1728 sq.in. if my maths is correct, which should leave 282 sq. in. for a fiddle yard of some description - this would give a roughly 2' x 1' cassette or sector plate - not really enough for normal operation, but enough to give an operating model for the challenge. I'm toying with the idea of expanding it into a roundy-roundy at some point by extending the headshunt to the end of the baseboard and putting a temporary buffer stop on the end. Of course, I could also make two 18" x 6" cassettes, one at each end, as a temporary stand-in for a full baseboard... The final decision that I'm trying to make is on the pointwork to use - I'm debating about using medium radius N gauge points to make it more likely that Blanche will be able to run unmodified, and curved points on the loop at the end near the incline to allow a smoother curve... I'm just worried that it won't look particularly quarry-like. I've got some templates down on the board, and I'll put up some photos tonight if I have the time, or tomorrow, for a general dismantling of my ideas... better that than having to dismantle the layout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 The track plan is pretty much finalised... I hope! The N gauge curved points will be retained as well as the medium radius ones that are on the crossing to the works and shed - I'll just have to try to hide the sleepers as best as I can. I'll be getting 009 points for the running shed/siding, one part of the run-round crossover and he headshunt for two reasons - to make leaving bits exposed more feasible if necessary, and to give a radius between the medium radius points and the settrack one that I'll be using for the turnout for the incline - I'm hoping that the latter will lend an air of 'quarry track' rather than simply narrow gauge to the layout. I'm planning on putting in an order for some track tomorrow, although not much work will take place over the weekend as I'm off to my girlfriend's place for the weekend... and going to see The Lancashire Hotpots on Saturday The single road running shed will go on the right, with the siding closest to the loop running along the outer wall - I may model this as half disused... though if I only ever shunt rolling stock into and out of it, I'll probably get away with having the rail head painted in rust, leaving the siding (semi) usable. The headshunt/siding next to the works may be extended right, as I'm going to shorten the lean-to part of the works to just a boiler house, and have the other line go further back, and have something of a loco servicing area inside, with things like lifting gear for boiler replacements and some machinery with overhead line shafting for light and medium repairs to locos and stock. The final thing that isn't particularly visible because of the angle is the square outline in the bottom left corner - this is going to be one of these: (see bottom of first post) with the remains of some rusty jubilee track on it, on the assumption that this was where the rubbish was tipped when this area was a working gallery. Finally, a couple of photos of the new materials, and a comparison of size between old and new: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Well, construction has started... choosing the best possible bits of propellor wood from everyone's favourite orange shop, I've cut the outer framing to length, and cut the plywood upper in half. However, the nominally 22mm x 50mm wood for the framing is as small as 19mm x 46mm in some cases, and so one lap joint for the corner took me about 45 minutes to fettle last night - and I can see me having to do all of the joints tailored specifically to the wood I'm using rather than simply coming up with standard joint sizes. It'll take a lot longer, but I'm beginning to suspect that variably-sized wood is the reason that Hafod Las Mk.1 was slightly wonky... In other news, a parcel of track bits arrived on Tuesday, along with a Peco point motor, switch and mounting plate, and some Peco switches... I'm planning to have Hafod Las Mk.II fully electrified (despite the cost) as I don't think that my badly-bodged point rodding helped the standard of the trackwork last time... More solenoids will follow (along with a CDU) but I mainly want one for sizing and positioning purposes. Next on the list in terms of construction is to work out exactly how much above the main framing the track level needs to be to provide a decent slope at the front, and try to fit the bracing/mountings around the track fixtures... Photos to follow when there's a bit more progress than a pile of slightly shorter wood As always, opinion, comments and abuse are all welcome, if anyone's still listening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 009matt Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I am looking forward to seeing this develop Steve, have you thought any more about infilling sleepers etc? How is Blanche growing? Your thread seems to suffer from the NG bug that prevents people possibly a.) reading it! and b.) posting on it. On my thread, most of the posts are either from me, or people I know. I think there's only one or two who aren't ng specialists or friends! Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Aye Matt, I think you might be right about the 'NG' bug - pretty much the same few (mostly NG) people posted on HL1 on RMweb3... some people are obviously just immune! No progress has been made on Blanche for a while - I've not so much hit a stalling point as reached the point where I have to assemble the motion and it's a little intimidating - so I keep putting it off! When I go to visit my family for Christmas, I might take a lightweight toolkit with me to make some progress... or at least to build up the two Knightswork slate wagons that I've got lying around. Given that the new layout is going to involve rather more on-stage shunting than the original, an automatic coupling of some description may be in order (preferably electromagnetic or something along those lines) - does anyone have any recommendations? As there's going to be rather a lot to infill of the track, I'm leaning towards foam sheets for most parts, with DAS or similar for between the sleepers themselves, ?? la Catcott Burtle, but with less clay so there's room for some crushed slate on top. The only thing that worries me about this method is the use of foam, and how long it will last over the years before it starts going funny, so I may try either cork or a full covering of clay - which would be both expensive and heavy More woodwork got done last night, between work and pub, so I now have the outer framing of one 3' x 2' baseboard... only one more to go, then all the cross-bracing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium cornelius Posted December 11, 2009 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 11, 2009 On the last OO9 layout I attempted, I infilled between the sleepers with thick card and then ballasted on top of that - it reduces the amount needed significantly if you want to ballast right up to the rails NG style. Of course you could use clay and slate dust instead of regular ballast. I also cut away the webs between the sleepers (on Peco OO9 track) so I could re-space them and also slide lengths of card right through without having to cut out loads of fiddly little bits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 009matt Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 . Given that the new layout is going to involve rather more on-stage shunting than the original, an automatic coupling of some description may be in order (preferably electromagnetic or something along those lines) - does anyone have any recommendations? Just bought a MSE Sprat and winkle 2mm starter set for ??12.50 contains 40 couplings, 6 magnets , steel and brass wire they say they have been used successfully with 009 Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Well, it looks like I can make some progress when I put my mind to it... From the pile of wood seen above, what amounted to a kit of parts was made up as precisely as I could... though some of the wood was rather propeller shaped and so I had to make use of the best bits for the framing - even with careful construction, one of the boards is slightly rhomboid, but it's nothing that a plane won't fix... when I buy one. (Propeller, Plane, geddit? I'll get me coat ). That is, of course, assuming that the plywood's square The 'kit' consisting of the two plywood uppers can be seen here, followed by the fiddle yard end with the basic frame assembled and some of the further bracing and support for the elevated surface added, to allow me to have a drop-off at the front of the baseboard. They are built rather like brick outhouses, but with the state of the wood, my lack of carpentry skills and durability in mind, that's probably for the best! The final shot so far shows the points placed down in rough locations... they've since been moved slightly to give smoother curves and make sure that the point motors won't be sat over cross-bracing. Next on the list is to start laying the track from one of the fiddle yard lines and get droppers soldered on the tracks, as well as oles drilled for the point motor pins... though for now I only have two point motors until post-Christmas when the postage situation's calmed down again - I'm off visiting family and with my luck, wherever I ordered the bits to be delivered, I'd miss them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 Right... a small amout of tracklaying has taken place - the curved point at the start of the loop! (though I don't expect to get a great more deal done before I head up north for Christmas), but first I want to make sure that I've got the wiring right... so I've put up a plan on in the Electrics forum here... please feel free to comment, correct and dismantle I may order myself some Sprat & Winkle couplings over the next couple of weeks too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jub45565 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Caught up with this via the old forum archive, which led me here! Im at my parents for a few days pre-Christmas. Looking good, and interesting! Im going for the microtrains Kadee type jobs, which I know Ive told you before Id post some photos of, but several other projects - some of which are at least NG - have got in the way! I'll try and remember in January... These are good, with 2 potential issues. Firstly, I dont like the 'double shunt' required to uncouple and then push the wagon further along - unless electromagnets are used and placed in the positions you actually want to uncouple - but this would be expensive and complex. Secondly, the coupling box is quite big. This is fine on bogie coaching stock, but may have issues on locos, not to mention RAFs and slate wagons etc! Might even push ahead and get my Linda up and running in January too, but I wont promise anything. Must have a proper catch up at some point too, its been a while. Have a good Christmas, and a merry new year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 A belated happy new year, chaps! Well, I was going to put up a photo of the progress on Hafod Las, but the forum's not in the mood to upload pictures! EDIT: it seems to work simply as an attachment at the bottom of the post when I preview it, but I can't place it in the text itself. Let's hope I'm not the only one who can see it Progress then: All of the track has been laid, complete with droppers, and the layout is currently sat upside down on the floor with some wood glue on the underside to blunt the bent over track pins. Once this is dry (probably in the morning) I'll wire all of the dropppers up to common wires and start the process of fixing the point motors in place. A run to B&Q will also be necessary tomorrow for some chocolate block connectors as I've not got any handy multi-pin connectors lying around, to form the connections between the baseboards and the control panel - probably a dismountable one when I get around to it as there won't be the space for one on the off-scene area as with HL1. I've also had a Sprat & Winkle starter set arrive, along with an extra pack of magnets. Once everything's wired up and some test running has been done, I'll see about the best locations for the magnets, and have a play with fitting the couplings themselves to some slate wagons and the bogie coaching stock that the running gear has just arrived for. Whilst bogie stock would be highly unlikely normally on a quarry level, HL2 is going to be portrayed more as a cross between Coed Y Parc and Red Lion level on the Penrhyn system, giving a slim justification for a workmen's train. The majority of stock will, of course, be slate wagons along with the occasional train of supplies/stores and coal for the quarry and workshop. Blanche is temporarily on hold whilst I'm waiting for some replacement parts. See here. Pete - welcome to the new RMweb! Let's see this Linda then I'll give you a ring at some point and see if we can sort out another reunion weekend... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 009matt Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 A belated happy new year, chaps! Well, I was going to put up a photo of the progress on Hafod Las, but the forum's not in the mood to upload pictures! EDIT: it seems to work simply as an attachment at the bottom of the post when I preview it, but I can't place it in the text itself. Let's hope I'm not the only one who can see it Progress then: All of the track has been laid, complete with droppers, and the layout is currently sat upside down on the floor with some wood glue on the underside to blunt the bent over track pins. Once this is dry (probably in the morning) I'll wire all of the dropppers up to common wires and start the process of fixing the point motors in place. A run to B&Q will also be necessary tomorrow for some chocolate block connectors as I've not got any handy multi-pin connectors lying around, to form the connections between the baseboards and the control panel - probably a dismountable one when I get around to it as there won't be the space for one on the off-scene area as with HL1. I've also had a Sprat & Winkle starter set arrive, along with an extra pack of magnets. Once everything's wired up and some test running has been done, I'll see about the best locations for the magnets, and have a play with fitting the couplings themselves to some slate wagons and the bogie coaching stock that the running gear has just arrived for. Whilst bogie stock would be highly unlikely normally on a quarry level, HL2 is going to be portrayed more as a cross between Coed Y Parc and Red Lion level on the Penrhyn system, giving a slim justification for a workmen's train. The majority of stock will, of course, be slate wagons along with the occasional train of supplies/stores and coal for the quarry and workshop. Blanche is temporarily on hold whilst I'm waiting for some replacement parts. See here. Pete - welcome to the new RMweb! Let's see this Linda then I'll give you a ring at some point and see if we can sort out another reunion weekend... yes, I can see it - looking good matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 yes, I can see it - looking good matt Cheers Matt, let's hope the track holds out better than that on HL1! The loco shed point has a possible problem - when fitting the point motor to the underside, I managed to not check properly where the screws were poking through the board and lifted the point slightly, knocking out the over-centre spring. I've managed to re-jig it into place it seems, but I may end up replacing it if it proves to be unreliable in service. The basic power wiring has been completed, though the section switches are going to have to wait until I have some plasticard to build the control panel (getting some 40thou or thicker at the St Albans show on Saturday), and likewise the point motors... although I may solder the wires on to those on the works board as they'll need to go to jumpers rather than directly to the switches. Having said that, they all may need to go to jumpers, as there's no room on the board for the panel - any ideas for a means of fitting the panel to the board in a removable fashion, anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Right... some basic wiring has taken place! The droppers have been soldered up into common feeds, the isolating section feeds have been taken to connecting blocks and the point motors have been wired up... though this is all on Board 1 (the incline end)... I still have to do the Works board... but that's at least had the point motors fitted. I'm waiting for RMweb3 to reappear as there's a thread that I need to use as an instruction manual for fitting the frog polarity microswitches! Nevertheless, the boards look a lot better, having gone from this: to this (and a little further): I also couldn't resist a test run, which showed up a problem with the 009 points on the board - the blades don't seem to make enough of a contact when operating in one direction to provide electrical continuity (it's not a short as it works when I manually bridge the rails with some wire) but the microswitches should take care of this problem when they're fitted. The photo below shows Prince on loan from the FR/WHR line to cover for the quarry shunter which is in overhaul - the loco is taking empties into the quarry under the big incline, whilst a short rake of loaded slate wagons that have just come down from the gallery above on the electric incline wait to be drawn into the loop for movement to the exchange sidings at Betws-y-coed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardybloke Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 A minor disaster has happened in Hafod Las works, and construction of Blanche has been set back by quite some time Workbench blog Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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