The Suburban B Set Coaches?

[chrisf]

3 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

However another photo from the same resource shows a three coach set at the Highworth terminus, the one nearest the loco bearing "Highworth" branding on its end so is presumably part of a B-Set:

I think not.   If I understand correctly a B set comprised two brake composites.  It was not just B sets that were branded with the line on which they were intended to work.

 

Chris

[Hal Nail]

4 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

However another photo from the same resource shows a three coach set at the Highworth terminus, the one nearest the loco bearing "Highworth" branding on its end so is presumably part of a B-Set:

 

Link: Passenger 3 coach Set at Highworth

 

Any ideas on the identity of three coaches shown?

 

 

I've seen those photos elsewhere and they are of an RCTS railtour. There are some good ones of a 58xx in regular use with a 2 coach train as well.

 

My books are in storage but I've got a vague recollection that branch had its own stock for some reason.

 

Those coaches are flat ended and look like later Collett stock but they appear to have Dean bogies with footboards. Photo link below shows this better: 

 

http://highworthhistoricalsociety.org.uk/galleries/nggallery/photograph-galleries/railway-photographs/page/3#gallery/950cf0934d0853e36fda06297c49f09b/1068

Edited April 12, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Miss Prism]

2 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

http://highworthhistoricalsociety.org.uk/galleries/nggallery/photograph-galleries/railway-photographs/page/3#gallery/950cf0934d0853e36fda06297c49f09b/1068

 

If that is W1239, it is a 57' D125 brake 3rd, late Collett (1938/9). It's sitting on 9' Fishbellies, which probably came from a withdrawn early Toplight.

 

 

[bécasse]

The carriages used to work the Swindon workmen's train on the Highworth branch, two BTs and a T strengthener IIRC, were branded because the branch had loading gauge issues and the carriages concerned were modified (ventilators moved closer to the roof eaves) to ensure that they conformed with it. Ordinary carriage stock was out of gauge, albeit not by much, and therefore prohibited.

[Hal Nail]

38 minutes ago, bécasse said:

The carriages used to work the Swindon workmen's train on the Highworth branch, two BTs and a T strengthener IIRC, were branded because the branch had loading gauge issues and the carriages concerned were modified (ventilators moved closer to the roof eaves) to ensure that they conformed with it. Ordinary carriage stock was out of gauge, albeit not by much, and therefore prohibited.

I thought something like that was the case but couldn't quite recall.

 

Is the use of fishbellies also related to that? Not sure why fairly modern stock would have older replacement bogies?

[Miss Prism]

22 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Is the use of fishbellies also related to that?

 

No. Buffer height is standard.

 

22 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Not sure why fairly modern stock would have older replacement bogies?

 

As I said, I suspect they were replacements, but they might have been new. There was nothing wrong with the Fishbelly design. Ideal for lighter vehicles.

 

[bécasse]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

As I said, I suspect they were replacements, but they might have been new. There was nothing wrong with the Fishbelly design. Ideal for lighter vehicles.

 

 

Given that the dedicated stock only worked the Highworth branch workmen's trains and that they were effectively non-revenue earning, it would have made considerable sense to have utilised bogies surplus from scrapped coaches as it would have reduced the capital cost.

[The Stationmaster]

On 12/04/2022 at 20:17, bécasse said:

The carriages used to work the Swindon workmen's train on the Highworth branch, two BTs and a T strengthener IIRC, were branded because the branch had loading gauge issues and the carriages concerned were modified (ventilators moved closer to the roof eaves) to ensure that they conformed with it. Ordinary carriage stock was out of gauge, albeit not by much, and therefore prohibited.

Yes.  the loading gauge was was officially restricted beyond the Stratton Factory connection although I think the cause of teh restriction was a bit further laong the branch.  Several special Highworth Branch loading gauges were proivided at Swindon inclusding one on No,7 bay line at Swindon station, there was also one in each of the Up and Down yards east of the station, plus a fourth on the branch itself 50 yds to  the Highworth side of the connection to Stratton Factory provided especially for gauging any traffic emerging from the Factory Sidings that was being worked towards Highworth (I wonder if there ever was any?).

 

The following coaching stock was banned from the branch - rail motor cars and trailers; 'high new pattern carriages' (whatever that might mean, see the date information below), carriages with high raised centre in roof (i.e. clerestory stock); covered carriage trucks; and,  horse boxes fitted with lamp hoods (this is the 1960 list but the wording is exactly the same as the list published in September 1920 and might well be even older).

 

The 1936 restriction on passenger carrying stock was - 'No vehicle of a greater length than 60ft (figure omitted) in width over body, 12ft 6" high in centre and 11 ft at sides, must be worked over this branch'.'

This was corrected and amended in March 1937 to read - 'No vehicle of greater length than 60ft over buffers, nor exceeding 9 ft in width over body, 12ft 6" high in centre and 11ft at sides, must be worked over this branch.'

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

"...horse boxes fitted with lamp hoods"

 

I thought this was a mistake at first, but it's well-founded - some horse box roof fittings were up to nearly 12'9" high.

 

[Penrhos1920]

  Deleted post

Edited April 18, 2022 by Penrhos1920
superceded by my later post

[Penrhos1920]

On 12/04/2022 at 19:46, Miss Prism said:

 

If that is W1239, it is a 57' D125 brake 3rd, late Collett (1938/9). It's sitting on 9' Fishbellies, which probably came from a withdrawn early Toplight.

 

 

 

 

It appears that 6 coaches were built for the Highworth Branch in 1939, all had 9' Fishbelly bogies as we call them or 9' Light Bogies (rocking bar type) as the GWR called them:

 

C75, nos. 1237 & 1238

D125, nos. 1239 & 1240

E161, nos. 6830 & 6831

 

bogies came from a Toplight composite and Collett 1923 standard corridor coaches of 1923: 7965(E114), 7950(E113), 7561(E88), 7617(E115), not recorded for E161 coaches.  The registers for the old composites record that they got the 9' light pressed steel bogies that had been built for the 1939 coaches.

 

So why were Fishbelly bogies prefered to Light Pressed Steel bogies on the Highworth branch?