Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance Handset Problem

[Jamiel]

Hi

I have a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance which I have not used for 14 months. I have set the layout up again, and most things are working very well.

One thing that is not is the speed potentiometer (pot) (speed control knob, that turns). I can spin it around, and sometimes there is no response, other times it jumps up or down in speed by 10 numbers.

The layout is in a dry, but unheated shed, and the controller has been stored there while I have been re-assembling the layout and insulating it.

My suspicion is that damp may have got into the pot, so I have brought the handset into the house to sit above a radiator.

I will update the thread when I try it again after being kept in the warm.

 

I suspect that most people haven't left a controller unused for 14 months, but I would be interested to know if anyone else has experienced a similar problem.

Jamie

 

[mikeg]

This can happen even when the unit has not been stored, our club unit knob stopped working after 6 months use, but as most of us use the buttons for finer control we have not sent it back to Guagemaster. They will replace the pot as that is certainly faulty free of charge usually as the controllers have a lifetime guarantee.

 

regards

 

mike g

[Jamiel]

Thanks Mike.

Good to know it has happened to others.

I will give them a call this week.

Just get the layout set up, and then have to send back the controller. Still I could go DC with one loco on there, which is better than having a faulty handset.

Jamie

[Nigelcliffe]

This can happen even when the unit has not been stored,..... They will replace the pot as that is certainly faulty free of charge usually as the controllers have a lifetime guarantee.

 

Gaugemaster are good at repairing and supporting products carrying their name.    BUT, the DCC products do not have a lifetime guarantee - the entry DCC01 system is 1 year (in the manual), and I think that applies to other Prodigy systems. 

Gaugemaster do have a lifetime guarantee on analogue controllers which they make themselves.

 

There may be a claim under consumer rights legislation that the speed encoder shouldn't fail that rapidly, but that would be a claim against the retailer (who in turn would then take it up with the manufacturer). 

 

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Jamiel]

Thanks Nigel

I have had it since 2009 (I think), but if it is a part they can repair, I would be happy to pay. I just don't want to have to buy a new handset at over £100.

I'm not worried about getting into a consumer rights argument, more just to have a controller for my layout now it is back up.

Still a night near the radiator is still worth a try first.

Jamie

[young37215]

Hi Jamie

 

I had similar problems with my hand held unit a year or two back. In line with their excellent reputation for repairing their products or those that they sell, Guagemaster were first class at repairing the controller even though it was well over 12 months old. There was no discussion about warranties because, from memory, their rep guardedly mentioned that the knob from the early versions was a known weakness. Consequently you may well get a sympathetic hearing.  

 

Good luck

 

regards Rob

[Jamiel]

Thanks Rob.

Interesting to hear that it is a known weakness. I will post what transpires with the controller.

Many thanks for all the speedy replies.

Jamie

[250BOB]

Very common fault I think. My pal has sent his back for the same repair about 5 or 6 times.

Free every time.

[atticombe]

I had the same problem and spoke to their rep at the Doncaster show who tolkd me that the original MRC unit was too expensive for the Britiish market as a consequence an inferior rotary encoder was fitted to reduce costs.

 

Gaugemaster did not realise how poor the fitted encoder was and have undertaken to replace said encoder at no cost except for postage cost one way.

 

My two units were repaired at the end of February and have behaved correctly ever since. Gauugemaster as always do the right thing by their customers.

 

Michael

[Jamiel]

Thanks Michael, and everyone else who has replied.

Sounds like really good customer service, as soon as I get over actually being able to run trains again, I will get it sorted out.

Many thanks.

Jamie

[Crewlisle]

Last year I had a similar problem with my Lenz LH90 handset - the one with a control knob.  It had not been used for about 12 months & had been with the layout in a spare bedroom.  I contacted AH Models who are the Lenz UK agents & they suggested I try squirting some Servisol 10 switch cleaner in the potentiometer.  I did this & after working it a few times the controller worked  OK.

 

I solved a colleague's sticky LH90 problem the same way.  It might be worth a try.

[Jamiel]

I spoke to Gaugemaster today about the handset, I haven't had the layout running enough to worry about the problem for a wile.

 

Nigel is right the DCC handsets are not covered by the lifetime guarantee, the cost of repair is £35 once they are out of statutory warranty. The handsets are simply American models re-branded by Gaugemaster, but if the speed controller has stopped working properly on a lightly used handset within a few years (5?) it does not sound as though it was using quality components to start with.

I can't say that I share the enthusiasm for Gaugemaster others have given in this thread. The Prodigy advance has also burned out a couple of chips, one a Hornby one that I had just fitted gave off smoke when I tried to run the loco. It is possible that others may just have done a reset of the acceleration to 0 and so need a full reset. I suspect that some older Hornby and Bachmann chips may have a lower ampage than the Prodigy Adavence uses.

At the moment the cost of changing to another DCC system isn't something I want to make, but I can say it is something I might consider in the future.

Jamie

[JJGraphics]

Thanks Rob.

 

Interesting to hear that it is a known weakness. I will post what transpires with the controller.

 

Many thanks for all the speedy replies.

 

Jamie

 

 

Yes, had that problem with the Prodigy² handset I had prior to going to ECoS. Gaugemaster repaired it and back it came in double-quick time. Very good service.

 

John

[Brian]

I spoke to Gaugemaster today about the handset, I haven't had the layout running enough to worry about the problem for a wile.

 

Nigel is right the DCC handsets are not covered by the lifetime guarantee, the cost of repair is £35 once they are out of statutory warranty. The handsets are simply American models re-branded by Gaugemaster, but if the speed controller has stopped working properly on a lightly used handset within a few years (5?) it does not sound as though it was using quality components to start with.

 

I can't say that I share the enthusiasm for Gaugemaster others have given in this thread. The Prodigy advance has also burned out a couple of chips, one a Hornby one that I had just fitted gave off smoke when I tried to run the loco. It is possible that others may just have done a reset of the acceleration to 0 and so need a full reset. I suspect that some older Hornby and Bachmann chips may have a lower ampage than the Prodigy Adavence uses.

 

At the moment the cost of changing to another DCC system isn't something I want to make, but I can say it is something I might consider in the future.

 

Jamie

 

Hi

 

I seriously doubt the Gaugemaster DCC system burnt out your decoders.   Its more likely the decoders were incorrectly fitted or some other fault on the decoder or loco itself caused them to burn out.

Lower Amperage decoder current has nothing to do with the DCC control system. Whether 00.1A or a full 1.0Amp is consumed it has nothing to do with what the DCC system is outputting. (Up to the systems maximum current rating of course).

I have nothing but praise for Gaugemaster, who offer a first class repair service.  They normally only charge for repairs if the item returned has been incorrectly used, opened and tampered with or is physically damaged.  

[SHMD]

I (my mate) had the same problem. See the thread below...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95224-prodigy-handset-problem/?p=2499267

 

 

I can not commend Gaugemaster enough.

 

 

Kev.

[Jamiel]

Hi

 

I seriously doubt the Gaugemaster DCC system burnt out your decoders.   Its more likely the decoders were incorrectly fitted or some other fault on the decoder or loco itself caused them to burn out.

Lower Amperage decoder current has nothing to do with the DCC control system. Whether 00.1A or a full 1.0Amp is consumed it has nothing to do with what the DCC system is outputting. (Up to the systems maximum current rating of course).

I have nothing but praise for Gaugemaster, who offer a first class repair service.  They normally only charge for repairs if the item returned has been incorrectly used, opened and tampered with or is physically damaged.  

Hi Brian

 

Gaugemaster do have an excellent reputation with repairs to the analogue controllers they manufacture, but the free repair service does not extend to the DCC Prodigy handsets (and possibly the rest of the system) which they re-badge from an American manufacturer, and only covers the standard warranty period which all products must adhere to. Unless I spoke with someone who does not know the company policy on repairs, which I think is unlikely.

 

Perhaps my feelings about Gaugemaster have been tainted by the numerous posts on RMweb that say that they will repair faults free of charge, so when the control handset has developed problems I had a higher expectation of the service I would receive.

 

The decoders burned out after first working OK. Whenever I mention that this has happened there are always replies telling me that what I saw did not happen.

 

I do understand that the decoder only draws the ampage it needs, but there is a problem with the older decoders that is causing them to fail. I have not had any problem with TCS , modern Bachmann and Zimo decoders so maybe it is just they were poor quality decoders.

 

For the moment I will stick with the Prodigy Advance, but I think in the long run I would like to change to something I could run through a laptop that could offer a better interface (GUI).

 

Jamie

 

[Jamiel]

I (my mate) had the same problem. See the thread below...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95224-prodigy-handset-problem/?p=2499267

 

 

I can not commend Gaugemaster enough.

 

 

Kev.

 

Hi Kev

 

Thanks for the link.

 

This is exactly the same problem I have, and have heard of elsewhere, but unfortunately the person I spoke to at Gaugemaster said the cost for repair would be £35, which for replacing a potentiometer that has obviously been a poor quality one in the first place seems pretty steep to me. If they use the same part, then presumably the fault is likely to happen again, but not until the warranty on the part has passed.

 

I understand that a company is not beholden to its customers for an infinite time, but when they and many of their customers make a big deal about the lifetime guarantee, then when you discover this is only for some of their products it is very disappointing. I am pretty sure the lifetime guarantee was mentioned when I bought the Prodigy.

 

EDIT

I spoke with the Gaugemaster technical help and the rotary switch is not a potentiometer but an encoder switch. These apparently do wear out and a replacement part would only have a warranty of a few months, although the part has been upgraded over the model/year of manufacture I have so is likely to not fail until a longer period has passed.

 

If any one can recommend a replacement encoder that would work with the handset I would perfectly happy to replace it myself, but I suspect the answer is just to use the arrows to control speed and then in the long run look to upgrade to a laptop based control system.

 

Jamie

[SHMD]

I did find the far-east manufacturer of the Prodigy Rotary Encoders online but, whilst they had a range of similar encoders, they did not (directly) sell the exact same kind.

(Different number of pulses, dimples, legs, tabs, mountings, etc - but clearly related.)

 

 

I did manage to find one of the faulty encoders, I replaced, and have added a couple of photos.

Clearly, a kind quadrature rotary encoder.

I did not investigate why it failed, but just replaced them.

 

 

When removing the old encoder, do not try to remove it in one piece. You WILL damage the PCB.

Instead, using high quality fine side cutters, cut each of the encoders legs (that are soldered to the PCB). Remove the encoder by de-soldering the remaining two mounting tabs - being careful not to damage the PTH (Plated Through Holes). Each leg can then be removed by applying the soldering iron and using your favourite form of solder removal - either copper braid, solder sucker, powered de-soldering station, etc.

 

 

Kev.

[dasatcopthorne]

This is interesting.

 

It happens on NCE throttles and I can replace an encoder in 10 mins for £2.60

 

I wonder if the encoder has any numbers on it. I found some on the NCE one and traced a supply to RS Components.

 

Dave

[SHMD]

This is interesting.

 

It happens on NCE throttles and I can replace an encoder in 10 mins for £2.60

 

I wonder if the encoder has any numbers on it. I found some on the NCE one and traced a supply to RS Components.

 

Dave

 

I've had a look again and there are no markings.

 

I also had a look at the RS range and, although there does not appear to be one directly compatible, it might be possible to 'bodge' one into service.

 

 

Kev.