Jump to content


Google Ads are only seen by non-members of RMweb - Create an RMweb account and you'll only receive modelling ads.

Posted Image What was your favourite model of 2017? Cast your vote


Photo

Beginners OO 1950's Banff





  • Please log in to reply
120 replies to this topic

#1 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 17 January 2016 - 08:25

Hello all!

I'm an Australian, recently retired, and thinking about my first layout. At this stage, I have much to learn.

My initial selection was a Timesaver, which has it's own thread here. This is on hold until Bachmann actually release their new J72. It was a definite newbie mistake to believe that it would be available when the manufacturer said. I now see that it hasn't even made CAD yet, so it would seem that there is considerable waiting to come.

This thread is for my "Plan B": an attempt at creating the Banff trackplan from Ian Futers' most excellent book: Modeling Scotland's Railways. As my wife's family came from Banff, and she has cousins in the Aberdeen & Banchory areas, modelling Scotland might win a few brownie points. Besides, I like Scotland, having recently visited all these areas (and more) on a start-of-retirement-trip that is just ending.

I would prefer to model pre-WWII, but comments on the other thread have shown that there disappointing little support for the GNoSR-area for this period in RTR. As a beginner, I would like to start with RTR before diving into kit-built locos and rolling stock. Start simple and build on that.

The residents of these forums have already been most helpful on the Timesaver thread. Thanks in advance for your continued wisdom, support, advice and patience here. I'm really looking forward to the next year or so.

Edited by aardvark, 17 January 2016 - 09:14 .

  • Like x 2

Google Ads are only seen by non-members of RMweb - Create an RMweb account and you'll only receive modelling ads.

#2 Allegheny1600

Allegheny1600

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,603 posts
  • LocationLeigh, Lancashire, UK or Tolo, Peloponese, Greece.

Posted 17 January 2016 - 12:16

G'day mate!

I'm sure such a plan would be very popular on here!

That's a part of the country I've been looking at whistfully for some time. My plan is to run in the green diesel era though - I'd find it much easier.

I'm sure you've seen "Scots we hae", "Portcullin", "Scottish Locomotives" and many other highly inspirational topics?

Cheers,

John E.


  • Like x 1

#3 MartinWales

MartinWales

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 9,817 posts
  • LocationSunny Snowdonia

Posted 17 January 2016 - 12:19

....Such as Kinmundy perhaps?


  • Like x 3
  • Agree x 1

#4 Ben Alder

Ben Alder

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,058 posts

Posted 17 January 2016 - 17:28

Part of the world that really deserves more modelling attention. Some of these termini would make ideal small layouts and with a bit of "copying and pasting" from other coastal villages, some interesting backgrounds could be part of the layout. I recently came across a shot of Boddam in 1965 showing rows of small cottages on a hillside that would make an ideal 3D backscene for something like this. Please keep us updated with progress.


  • Like x 2

#5 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 23 January 2016 - 12:09

(grumpy old man alert)

 

While traveling on our grand tour, I picked up several copies of a leading UK model railway for £4.30 each.  I missed the February issue at Heathrow because the airport WHSmiths didn't stock them.  On return to home to Oz, I find the same magazine is $16.95, or about £8.50.  Seriously, how many copies do they expect to sell at such prices?


Edited by aardvark, 23 January 2016 - 12:13 .


#6 Tangoman69

Tangoman69

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 105 posts
  • Location52K, At the top of the hill, on the line from Tyne dock

Posted 24 January 2016 - 08:53

Get the 'Soft' copy, it's cheaper, usually available before normal publication.
You can keep on your tablet/pc with piles of magazines building up.
Keeps her indoors relatively happy

Karl
  • Agree x 1

#7 MartinWales

MartinWales

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 9,817 posts
  • LocationSunny Snowdonia

Posted 24 January 2016 - 11:08

To keep up the enthusiasm for your project it may be worthwhiIe to cut your teeth on a straightforward wagon kit, such as the Parkside Dundas range.....


  • Informative/Useful x 1
  • Agree x 1

#8 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 24 January 2016 - 13:34

Get the 'Soft' copy, it's cheaper, usually available before normal publication.

 

Yup, I will be heading in that direction.  Just as soon as I figure which publication and through which on-line service.

 

 

To keep up the enthusiasm for your project it may be worthwhiIe to cut your teeth on a straightforward wagon kit, such as the Parkside Dundas range.....

 

Thanks Martin - I think that that's a great idea.  I probably should get some track to push it along while making "choo choo" noises. :)


  • Friendly/Supportive x 1
  • Funny x 1

#9 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 17 February 2016 - 20:58

Well, my apologies for the break in transmission.  A lot has been happening, although admitted very little directly related to the topic.

 

The last post was from the transit lounge at Abu Dhabi on our way home to Australia.  After 8 months wondering the UK and continental Europe, it seems it is time to return to normality, whatever that is.  My wife and I have taken up residence in a new house (for us) in a place called Mullumbimby Creek (look it up), and have spent the last couple of weeks unpacking boxes and moving furniture.  There are still many things requiring attention, like getting an aging ride-on mower running so I can cut an acre of grass (no exaggeration), and last years tax returns, but I have managed a little time to throw together a layout plan.

 

Banff-layout.jpg

 

This uses Peco streamline code 75 track, and is laid out over the diagram from Ian Futers most excellent book Modelling Scotland's Railways.  I've tried to use the long turnouts wherever possible, although had to resort to the mediums in the line leading into the loco shed at the centre-bottom in order to follow Mr. Futers artwork,

 

Newbie mistake #1: the room I have been allocated in the new house is roughly 3.1m x 3.3m.  Brilliant!  The layout will fit!  Ah .... no it won't.  I was forgetting about the need to have something for the trains to run off into - the rest of the world/branch line.  I know about segment plates, transverers and storage yards/sidings, but all these require some amount of space!  I am not entirely sure how much space, but I'm guessing as a rule of thumb I would need storage roughly equal to the length of the platforms, so we are talking another metre or so, which suggests that the layout will be banished to the garage.  Sigh.

 

I'm also guessing I probably need storage for 3 trains-worth: maybe one passenger train and two goods trains,  Banff is a terminus without a turntable, where the loco has to run-around the train to prepare itself for exit from Banff.  Pictures I have seen show the loco pointing forwards on exit, which suggest that they reversed into Banff.  The storage will also require a run-around line so that the loco can be moved back to the other end of the train to re-configure the trains for re-use.  I'm figuring a 4-track transverser would be the way to go, although I am tempted to invest the extra length and build a proper storage yard, which would better support a long-term idea of having the loco automatically execute the storage run-around.  This would also remove the need to engineer a transverser, which perhaps, as  complete beginner, is one difficulty (opportunity) I can avoid,

 

Since the layout is already destined for the garage, then the extra metre or so allowance for storage sidings probably isn't going to make that much difference.  I need to measure the garage, and negotiate how much of it I might be allowed.

 

 


  • Like x 5

#10 benachie

benachie

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 303 posts
  • LocationDyce, Aberdeen

Posted 17 February 2016 - 21:47

You might like to consider Macduff which, like Banff, hangs on the side of a cliff.

https://www.railscot...php?loc=Macduff

The exit turns sharply virtually at right angles behind the cliff where you would have the fiddle yard.   That might enable you to get everything into 3.1m x 3.3m by straightening out the station layout somewhat.   Includes engine shed, turntable, cattle loading dock, fish traffic etc.   See

http://www.rmweb.co....the-final-days/

Alan


Edited by benachie, 17 February 2016 - 21:54 .

  • Informative/Useful x 1

#11 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 20 February 2016 - 21:21

You might like to consider Macduff which, like Banff, hangs on the side of a cliff.

 

Thanks for your suggestion, Alan.  You're right: a model of Macduff station could be made to fit into 3m x 3m.  Working with 36" radius curves, that would leave 2m or about a scale 500' to compress the station into, which I suspect could be done.

 

However, I think I will stick with Banff for a couple of not particularly good reasons.  First is that Ian Futers must have chosen Banff over Macduff for a reason.  Second: the Macduff model in my allocated room would be viewed from the back (non-water) side, which strikes me as a bit odd.  Third, if I start changing my mind I may never get anywhere (read a few layout threads like that, including the Macduff one you pointed out).

 

Lastly, and probably most importantly, is that my wife's family came from Banff.  As you may know, the Doune Church at Macduff has a clock tower with only three faces: the story goes that the side facing Banff is blank because the people of Macduff wouldn't give the people of Banff the time of day.  I suspect my wife might not be impressed if I modeled Macduff, at least not without modeling Banff first :)

 

Nevertheless,thanks for pointing out the Macduff thread, which I wasn't aware of and enjoyed reading.  Post #4 by Graham R provides an interesting bit of Macduff railway history that most likely applies to Banff as well.

 

cheers!


  • Like x 1

#12 sjp23480

sjp23480

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 482 posts
  • LocationAshford, Kent

Posted 20 February 2016 - 21:48

Aardvark,

 

You might want to take a look at this: Banff track plan

 

Good luck,

Steve


  • Informative/Useful x 1

#13 Ben Alder

Ben Alder

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,058 posts

Posted 20 February 2016 - 22:11

Here is a link to an OS 25" one from 1930 (map is zoomable) - http://maps.nls.uk/view/82870044


  • Informative/Useful x 2

#14 sandwich station

sandwich station

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 470 posts
  • LocationMelbourne

Posted 20 February 2016 - 22:40

Hello all!

I'm an Australian, recently retired, and thinking about my first layout. At this stage, I have much to learn.

My initial selection was a Timesaver, which has it's own thread here. This is on hold until Bachmann actually release their new J72. It was a definite newbie mistake to believe that it would be available when the manufacturer said. I now see that it hasn't even made CAD yet, so it would seem that there is considerable waiting to come.
 

 

Why don't you use Hornby's J50 instead, a good little loco.


  • Informative/Useful x 2

#15 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 21 February 2016 - 00:25

You might want to take a look at this: Banff track plan

 

Thanks Steve: I think I did see this a while ago, but then forgot about it, as one does.  I guess I do have the choice of putting the storage yard next to or behind the scenic bit.  The referenced layout doesn't have provision for restoring the loco to the correct end of the train after returning from the station, but that would be easy enough to fix.

 

Here is a link to an OS 25" one from 1930 (map is zoomable) - http://maps.nls.uk/view/82870044

 

Thanks Richard: I suspect I should get this printed out so I can pin it to my wall.

 

 

Why don't you use Hornby's J50 instead, a good little loco.

 

Hmmm ... the J50 wasn't previously on my radar as it wasn't Scottish, or at least not GNoSR region.  Definitely a good suggestion for the timesaver: maybe there's life in plan A after all!



#16 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 21 February 2016 - 00:28

Here's a storage siding I could add to the end of the Futers layout, which adds about 2.2m to make an overall 5.2m.

 

banff-siding.jpg

 

Edit: as before, this allows for the loco to be restored to the other end of the train on return from the station.


Edited by aardvark, 21 February 2016 - 00:29 .

  • Like x 1

#17 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 02 March 2016 - 10:21

Another question as I (slowly) work my way to something that might be worth taking a photo of ...

 

I have read that it is A Really Bad Idea to put points over joins in baseboards.  Further, I believe that a common approach is to use copper-clad sleepers, as used by people that hand-built their own points, to anchor the track at board boundaries.  I'm guessing that the idea is that copper-clad sleepers are wider than Peco code-75 plastic sleepers, and hence afford the track a better grip on the baseboard.

 

So, I've had a look at my layout.  The red-shaded zones are no-go zones for baseboard breaks because of the placement of points.

 

Banff-layout-shaded.jpg

 

This would suggest that the joins should be where the heavy black vertical lines are drawn.  There would also be a join at the left of the layout, where it meets the non-scenic bit (storage sidings), and probably another in the middle of the 2-metre-plus storage sidings.

 

Laying out something that is meant to be a real place gives me little flexibility to move the points around, so it seems I have to move the joins around to avoid them.  I'm grateful that there turned out to be a small area left of centre where I can position a join: dunno what I would have done without this narrowest of margins,

 

Can someone tell we whether all this is correct, or have I missed something.

 

cheers!


  • Like x 4

#18 Allegheny1600

Allegheny1600

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3,603 posts
  • LocationLeigh, Lancashire, UK or Tolo, Peloponese, Greece.

Posted 02 March 2016 - 13:27

Hello mate,

I would say you've got it just right, with regards to NOT putting points across baseboard joints!

I quite like your idea of red shading the no go area of the layout and it breaks it up into nicely manageable board sizes, looks like 3', 3'6" and 3'6" boards to me. I would say try and make the boards up into matched 'pairs' so they can be easily boxed together into a 'crate' for transportation.

With some judicious adjustments, you probably could go for two 5' boards but they are awfully unwieldy, I find.

 

As to the copperclad sleepers at board joints, I think that's purely for strength and alignment reasons. Copperclad is way stronger than plastic and can be glued or screwed to the board, rails soldered to it and everything should hold in place. Don't forget to 'gap' the copperclad, else electrical shorts will happen.

HTH,

John.


  • Informative/Useful x 2
  • Agree x 1

#19 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 02 March 2016 - 23:17

Hello mate,

I would say you've got it just right, with regards to NOT putting points across baseboard joints!

Thanks John!  There's always the danger of a little knowledge being dangerous, so I am really grateful to get your feedback.

 

cheers!


  • Like x 1

#20 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 10 March 2016 - 03:50

Just seen two pics here of locos leaving Banff that I haven't seen elsewhere.  The pics are copyright, so here's a link to the page so you can see for yourself.

 

http://tour-scotland...tion-banff.html

 

The first pic looks like a D40/41 to my beginners eye, but the second one I'm even less sure of.  Anyone?


  • Like x 2

#21 pH

pH

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,645 posts
  • LocationOriginal western terminus of the CPR

Posted 10 March 2016 - 04:04

Standard Class 4 2-6-4T - https://en.m.wikiped..._Class_4_2-6-4T . Kittybrewster shed in Aberdeen had a batch which were used on ex-GNoSR lines.

(Edit - Keith shed also had a few. The first ones went to Kittybrewster in 1951, and I think the last ones left the GNoSR lines in 1961. The one in the photo looks like 80114 of Kittybrewster.)

Edited by pH, 10 March 2016 - 04:12 .

  • Informative/Useful x 1

#22 Ben Alder

Ben Alder

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,058 posts

Posted 11 March 2016 - 22:20

Here is an 1866 map of the station area. Interestingly, the goods siding extends to the harbour if you feel like a bit more modelling!

 

http://maps.nls.uk/view/75066156


  • Informative/Useful x 1

#23 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 11 March 2016 - 22:39

Standard Class 4 2-6-4T - https://en.m.wikiped..._Class_4_2-6-4T . Kittybrewster shed in Aberdeen had a batch which were used on ex-GNoSR lines.

(Edit - Keith shed also had a few. The first ones went to Kittybrewster in 1951, and I think the last ones left the GNoSR lines in 1961. The one in the photo looks like 80114 of Kittybrewster.)

 

Where's the "that's totally awesome" button?  I thought the loco number looked like 80x4, but wasn't thinking about a 5-digit number.  Makes sense now.

 

This is quite exciting for me as I have been wondering which loco I might start with.  I know that a D40/41 would be the prototypical smart choice, and that these are available as kits, but being an absolute beginner I really would like to start with RTR and work up to kits, especially loco kits.  I'm pretty excited to see that this seems to match the announced Bachmann 32-360A Standard Class 4MT 2-6-4T, meaning that there is at least one RTR loco that was actually in Banff, despite it probably not quite being my era and that the Bachmann loco isn't actually available.

 

Close, but no cigar - but most definitely exciting!

 

cheers!



#24 aardvark

aardvark

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 159 posts
  • LocationMullumbimby Creek, Australia

Posted 11 March 2016 - 22:46

Here is an 1866 map of the station area. Interestingly, the goods siding extends to the harbour if you feel like a bit more modelling!

 

http://maps.nls.uk/view/75066156

 

Yes, there were quite a lot of changes made over the years.  I see this early version not only has a line down to the quayside, but also only a single passenger platform, with the loco shed only reached from that platform via a turntable.  Must have made for interesting operations.  I might guess that after disembarkation, that the loco pushed the carriages back up the hill for gravity shunting, then nipped into the loco shed spur while waiting for the coaches to return to the platform.

 

However, I will contain my excitement.  As in my previous, I am still looking for a reasonable RTR loco to begin with for a 1950's era layout,  Moving to 1866 might make things just a tad more difficult :no:

 

(edit for typos)


Edited by aardvark, 11 March 2016 - 22:46 .


#25 Ben Alder

Ben Alder

    Member


  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2,058 posts

Posted 11 March 2016 - 23:00

I suspect that the BR Standard 78xxx can't be far away from a release. Kittybrewster had three of the LMS version at one time, and it is possible that these visited the branch - Bachmann does a model of this type, and you could use the two diesels of the area as well - 24/1 and 26.









Google Ads are only seen by non-members of RMweb - Create an RMweb account and you'll only receive modelling ads.