3S15 12:10 SX Penzance - Glasgow Salkeld St Parcels

[Banger Blue]

I've been trawling through old BR (WR) & BR (LMR) WTTs for traffic on the Welsh Marches Line in the early - mid 1980s. One working which seems quite interesting is the 3S15 Penzance - Glasgow Parcels.

A search on Flickr has pics of Class 25 / 40 / 47 & 50s all in use on this working, however all the pics of the Class 50s are all in Cornwall. 

 

Q1. Where (if at all) did the locos change as the WTT doesn't indicate this? I'm assuming it was at Bristol Temple Meads as that's where some of the photos show a 40 dropping on to the service. Assuming as well that once the working reached Crewe it would have swapped for electric traction to head North.

 

Q2. Did any Class 50s carry on up the Welsh Marches Line to Shrewsbury or even beyond?

 

Q3. Does anybody know of any other Motive Power used for this working?

 

Q4. (Last one honest) There doesn't appear to be a balancing working, at least over the Welsh Marches, any ideas?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Rivercider]

I have a station working book for Bristol Temple Meads for 23rd Jan - 12th May 1984

which shows the train called at Temple Meads 19.34 - 20.15 on platform 7.

The incoming loco came off to work 3A08 20.35 Bristol Temple Meads - Paddington PPT (Premium Parcels Train)

the forward loco came off Bath Road,

 

cheers

[Swindon 123]

When I moved to Hereford depot in late 1984 there was a turn in the links that covered 3S15, Penzance-Glasgow. It varied as to the Down workings to Bristol, usually work a passenger to Cardiff then one over to Bristol but it changed around. The 3S15 bit stayed fairly constant throughout us working it. Loco off Bath Road then pick up vans from one of the non through platforms and wait for the train to come in from Penzance. Shunt aforementioned vans onto the front of the portion from Penzance and then off to Newport. Into the station at Newport to pick up more vans from the sidings at Godfrey Road and shunt onto the portion you had brought in. When ready set off to Hereford for relief there. Can't remember who relieved us. The train could be a bit of a handful to work as it could load up to 15 vehicles on the vacuum brake with a right mix of buckeyed and non buckeyed vehicles in no particular order. If you had a couple of BG's buckeyed up towards the back end, snatching was just about unavoidable. Traction was usually a 47, but the occasional oddity did turn up 40's 45's and 46's that Bristol wanted to get rid off, but unfortunately I never saw a 50 on the train. Although Hereford men knew 50's, Crewe men didn't, and I'm pretty sure that they relieved us at Hereford.

 

Paul J.

[Gwiwer]

That used to be the most colourful train of the day when I watched it cross Hayle viaduct from my window.  Loading in Cornwall was 9 - 12 vans of mixed BG and GUV design and (seemingly) random in formation.  During the BG - sector livery changeover period you could find red, red/grey, blue, blue-grey and even IC (occasionally) among the rake.  Traction was usually a 47, occasionally a 50.  Rewind to a few years earlier and a 45 turned up now and again though all the vans were blue or BG.

 

I did sometimes wonder whether any van actually ended up in or originated from Glasgow as there were numerous shunts en route; was any part of it actually a through train?  Or was it a case of "Grandad's Axe" which had three new heads and five handles but was still the same axe!

 

I was always given to understand that the locos in Cornwall worked to and from Bristol though the driver changed at Plymouth.  Which way it came and what hauled it north of Bristol is outside my knowledge.  There was also a down working which was through Hayle mid-afternoon around 15.30 IIRC during an otherwise fairly quiet spell on the main line.  Upon arrival at Penzance those dozen-or-so vans would be descended upon by ...... precisely no-one.  By its end you were lucky if a single parcel was on board.  Someone checked the vans before the duty 08 shunted them out for the night but there seemed no urgency about it.

[Rivercider]

A couple of other points come to mind.

3S15 was a Perishables and Parcels train (in the 1970s it was 4M05 12.45 Penzance - Crewe Perishables and Parcels)

so trafffic included flowers, fruit and veg from Cornwall, consequently I dont think there was an equivalent down service.

 

From my time in Bristol TOPS 1977-85 when we carried out parcels reporting I remember there would have been a through van or two from Penzance to Glasgow, but the train was comprehensively remarshalled en-route.

 

At Bristol in early 1984 3S15 was booked to arrive on platform 7, but after detaching and attaching traffic it was then shown to depart from the Down Through,

 

cheers

[Gwiwer]

 

 

I dont think there was an equivalent down service.

There must have been either a single balance working of empty vans or a potentially complex series of moves to get the right number of vans back to Cornwall as part of a loaded or empty workings across the country.  

 

I agree about the perishables traffic.  The "Golden Mile" was only a part of that; the gentle hillslopes above Mounts Bay which back the line from St. Erth to Penzance, and specifically the mile or so around Ludgvan, were (and still are) able to produce up to three crops per field annually.  Newlyn, another mile west, provided some fish traffic.  As a lad I well remember boxes of fish being loaded into unrefrigerated vans and having ice shovelled around them.  I did wonder how long that laster but being fresh-caught fish anyway, landed the same morning,they probably kept OK for many days.

[Rivercider]

There must have been either a single balance working of empty vans or a potentially complex series of moves to get the right number of vans back to Cornwall as part of a loaded or empty workings across the country.  

 

 

 

 

I agree about the balance of vans Rick, but I don't think there was an equivalent Glasgow-Plymouth/Penzance working via any route. 

In 1976/77 as well as 4M05 Perishables there was also 4B19 17.20 Plymouth - Bristol P & P, and 4A13 15.22 Penzance - Paddington P & P, which would likely outweigh traffic into Cornwall by some margin.

Hence the train of largely empty vans which you mentioned arriving in Penzance

 

cheers

[Swindon 123]

I think that 3S15 was one of those catch all workings that picked up parcels vans and the like that had been left by other trains heading in the opposite direction, such as newspaper, mail and parcels trains. There was a similar situation on the N&W with regards to vans left at various points en route. The newspaper vans left at Hereford off the early morning mail train where picked up by an afternoon working in the same direction. How they got back up north I've no idea, unless it was it was on 3S15 from Newport in the evening.  A similar situation applied when I was at Kings Cross. All the parcels and newspaper vans left by trains heading north overnight, where picked up by a southbound "sweeper" train later in the day that brought them back south. 

 

Paul J.

[The Pilotman]

The 1984/5 WTT shows a 3C24 0300 Plymouth-Penzance Parcels/Mail (timing load D490, as was 3S15) which, I suspect, was largely formed of vans off the previous day's 1V23 1539 Leeds-Plymouth Parcels/Mail which was booked to arrive at 0051.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Western Aviator

[Flood]

The 1984/5 WTT shows a 3C24 0300 Plymouth-Penzance Parcels/Mail (timing load D490) which, I suspect, was largely formed of vans off the previous day's 1V23 1539 Leeds-Plymouth Parcels/Mail which was booked to arrive at 0051.

 

The 0300 was still working in 1987 and I would say that this is where the vans for the Penzance - Glasgow originated from (at least in Cornwall).

 

In 1976/77 the 0300 was Mondays only with the other week days having the 2008 4B16 Paddington - Penzance Parcels (which left Plymouth at 0300). This is a bit of a misleading description as the 2008 only kept 2 vans all the way to Penzance with the rest of the Cornish portion being added at Plymouth (in those days a good number of CCTs as well as GUVs and BGs). These vans, plus others from the previous days 1055 MX 4B08 Plymouth - Penzance Parcels would have formed 4M05 to Crewe.

 

As stated already in 1976/77 there was the 1522 4A13 Penzance - Paddington which brought back the Newspaper vans from the 0030 1B85 Paddington - Penzance News along with a mixture of other vans which had arrived on either the 2008 or the 1055 from Plymouth.

[Downendian]

I'd somehow missed this thread.

The 3S15 (sometimes 3S14) was the last train we waited for spotting at Bristol Parkway in the mid 1970s.

It was then the 2027 Bristol TM to Glasgow sighthill parcels and the consist was a glorious mix of GUVs, BGs and ex big four parcels stock. It routinely returned a foreign class 25/31/37 (split box 37s were especially remembered) from Bath road. I understood that the diesel was exchanged for an AC electric at Bescot.

In the early 1980s after my spotting days had finished, I understood it was rerouted to the Newport-Hereford line and regularly brought class 40s to Bristol in their twilight years. There's plenty of photographic evidence for this on Flickr, even video.

I'm using this train to justify my 40 fleet in my 1970s Bristol based layout, although sadly I never saw one on this service.

Edit : as per Paul's comments

Neil

Edited December 13, 2018 by Downendian

[Swindon 123]

I'd somehow missed this thread.

The 3S15 (sometimes 3S14) was the last train we waited for spotting at Bristol Parkway in the mid 1970s.

It was then the 2027 Bristol TM to Glasgow sighthill parcels and the consist was a glorious mix of GUVs, BGs and ex big four parcels stock. It routinely returned a foreign class 25/31/37 (split box 37s were especially remembered) from Bath road. I understood that the diesel was exchanged for an AC electric at Bescot.

In the early 1980s after my spotting days had finished, I understood it was rerouted to the central wales line (via Hereford), and regularly brought class 40s to Bristol in their twilight years. There's plenty of photographic evidence for this on Flickr, even video.

I'm using this train to justify my 40 fleet in my 1970s Bristol based layout, although sadly I never saw one on this service.

Neil

The North & West route (or the Marches line if you like), via Hereford, not the Central Wales line Neil.

 

Paul J.

[Downendian]

Ah yes I'd realised that Paul after I'd posted, central wales a different route!

Neil