Freight flows 1970s-1980s (Background info/research for layouts)

[ColinK]

There was traffic to or from Metal Box at Westhoughton, not sure what and where to though.

[ColinK]

There was traffic to or from Metal Box at Westhoughton, not sure what and where to though.

[Rivercider]

There was traffic to or from Metal Box at Westhoughton, not sure what and where to though.

The List of Speedlink Services with effect from 17th May 1982 shows the following trip working:-

 

 6P83 08.01 SX Warrington Walton Old Junction - Blackburn (Westhoughton 09.19-09.57)

 

I am guessing possibly tinplate from BSC Ebbw Vale loaded in VCAs 

 

cheers

[Fat Controller]

The List of Speedlink Services with effect from 17th May 1982 shows the following trip working:-

 

 6P83 08.01 SX Warrington Walton Old Junction - Blackburn (Westhoughton 09.19-09.57)

 

I am guessing possibly tinplate from BSC Ebbw Vale loaded in VCAs 

 

cheers

Also probably Trostre and Velindre; either in VCAs or as coils on SPAs. The main user of the output of this plant would probably been the Heinz baked bean plant at Kitt Green, near Wigan. Other Metal Box factories that received tinplate from South Wales included Carlisle, Wisbech, Worcester and Sutton-in-Ashfield.

The Westhoughton trip probably also served BREL Horwich Works (brake shoes for distribution throughout the UK) 

[bescotbeast]

Evening all,

Following on from the work that a couple of us having been doing around the TOPS system, we thought we would try and identify as many different types of traffic flows and customers as possible.  Acknowledging that a wagonload (subsequently Speedlink) service from Bescot Yard to York Dringhouses could have 40-50 wagons, each potentially being for a different customer to a different destination, there appears to be few places where such information is logged for historical reference.

 

We've made a start and will keep adding to this, through the attached PDF document (v2), and as new information comes to light (either contributed via rmWeb or discovered ourselves) we will add it, and I'll ensure that the document on this first post is always the latest we have.

 

For each wagonload or bulk train flow we are looking to identify

- Origin

- Destination

- Product being transported

- Customer(s)

- Wagonload or Trainload

- Types of wagons

- Any related information or notes on the flow

 

The related information could be timings, operational information, more detailed wagon type, how the vehicles were circulated, which yards involved in the movement, rough or accurate dates that flows started/ended - basically ANY information that is related to flows. You might not know it all, every little helps (to quote a well known superstore!) so even if you maybe worked at a yard and can only remember odd bits, please post it, and we'll collate it all together. 

 

We have primarily started in Yorkshire / North East, but that just because its our area of interest - information from anywhere across the country would help, and should be documented, so that it truly becomes a nationwide project.

 

For reference, this isn't our project. We're treating this as public domain historical information, the PDF is there to be used. A credit or reference to this thread if it is used or posted anywhere would be nice, as that may generate additional information.  If you know people who might be interested in helping who are not on rmWeb, please print this post and the PDF, tell them about it, and ask them to email any info recollections, notes, copies of document anything, to marsh.lane@outlook.com.

 

Today's railway is vastly different from 20-30 years ago, the idea of a wagonload network will be unimaginable to some younger enthusiasts, so lets document it now, while people remember and have archive material/photos to fall back on.

 

Even if you cannot help now, please follow the topic, and check back regularly - as bits of information come up on different workings you may be able to assist us in the future.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

 

Rich

 

File Updates from the original posting:

v2 - Original Upload

v2.1 - Updated 1st February.

v2.2 - Updated 1st February.

v2.3 - Updated 2nd February.

 

Total Downloads to v2.2: 21 - Mentioned because the download figure resets every time I update the file.

Many thanks for starting this interesting thread Rich

 

Simon

[Banger Blue]

More Ellesmere Port / Birkenhead activity:

 

Associated Octel.

Ethylene Dibromide & Liquid Chlorine between Amlwch & E.Port, TTB tanks conveyed on:

7D56 21:08 Ellesmere Port - Llandudno Jn.

7D04 05:50 Llandudno Jn - Amlwch

7D05 08:25 Amlwch - Llandudno Jn

7F18 17:20 Llandudno Jn - Ellesmere Port.

 

Consist had barrier wagons and a brake van at both ends at it necessitated a reversal at Hooton.

 

Grain Traffic

For J Rank and Spillers grain warehouses at Birkenhead Docks.

PAA grainflow hoppers / polybulk hoppers conveyed on the Speedlink service:

6M90 Whitemoor Yard - Birkenhead Cavendish Sidings

[Rivercider]

Also probably Trostre and Velindre; either in VCAs or as coils on SPAs. The main user of the output of this plant would probably been the Heinz baked bean plant at Kitt Green, near Wigan. Other Metal Box factories that received tinplate from South Wales included Carlisle, Wisbech, Worcester and Sutton-in-Ashfield.

The Westhoughton trip probably also served BREL Horwich Works (brake shoes for distribution throughout the UK) 

No mention of Horwich, and I can not see it mentioned on any other trip either, which is strange.

 

6P83 08.01 SX Warrington WOJ - Blackburn (12.38)

Douglas Bank GKN 08.40

Westhoughton 09.19 - 09.57

Chorley ROF 11.08 - 12.04

 

cheers

[SR Chris]

9K43 07.52 SX Healey Mills - Dewsbury

9K43 09.47 SX Dewsbury - Healey Mills

 

Would these have been part of the flow of cement between Hope and the Blue Circle cement terminal in Dewsbury?

[clachnaharry]

Some recollections of freight workings on the Aberdeen to Inverness line 1980-81.

 

Firstly a list of operating freight facilities on the line in 1980, from the Aberdeen end

 

1) Kittybrewster - coal concentration depot and junction for Waterloo branch. These facilities were served by a daily 08 hauled trip from Craiginches yard. Coal for Kittybrewster was mainly 21 ton hoppers. Waterloo traffic included vans for Rowntree distribution depot, pipes in bogie bolsters for the oil industry and scrap in 16 ton mineral wagons.

 

2) Port Elphinstone papermill - fuel oil in occasional block trains, starch and china clay in Air braked tanks, finished paper in AB vans.

 

3) Inverurie station goods yard - coal in 16 ton minerals, fertiliser in 12 ton vans, possibly sundries in 12 ton vans

 

4) Kennethmont - coal in 16 ton minerals - there may also have been traffic for the adjacent distillery but I cannot recollect seeing anything there other than the minerals.

 

5) Huntly station goods yard - coal in 16 ton minerals, 12 ton vans - not sure what they were carrying.

 

6) Keith station goods yard - also junction for the Dufftown branch. Coal in 16 ton minerals, 12 ton vans, demountable whisky tanks on an air braked chassis from the Chivas Regal blending plant. Dufftown traffic was grain in vacuum braked wagons, but Polybulks were starting to appear.

 

7) Elgin station goods yard - coal in 16 ton minerals, MOD traffic in 12 ton vans, AB vans and container flats, propane in AB tanks. Reversal point for the Burghead branch which handled block trains of vacuum braked grain wagons.

 

8) Forres station goods yard - sawn timber in 12 ton vacuum braked opens - coal in 16 tonners.

 

9) Nairn - coal in 16 tonners, 12 ton vans

 

The working were interesting - particularly as it was a transitional period where unfitted, vacuum braked and air braked wagons were all present on the system.

 

A double headed partially fitted goods would leave Aberdeen at about 06.00,sometime conveying two brake vans, dropping off and picking up wagons at Inverurie and Kennethmont yards, then arriving at Keith. One locomotive would then return to Aberdeen with vacuum braked or unfitted wagons and a brake van, shunting at Huntly. the other locomotive would then shunt Keith yard, and trip any traffic for Duffdown down the branch, returning with the empties. It would then work to Elgin, usually light engine , where it would shunt the yard. It would then take any air braked wagons from Elgin, shunting at Keith to pick up the whisky tanks and then returning to Aberdeen as an air braked only train. I am not sure if Port Elphintone was shunted by this train or the earlier one, but I suspect it was this one, as the wagons used at the time appeared to be all AB.

 

There was also a partially fitted train to Elgin Yard which left Inverness in the morning, shunting at Nairn and Forres yards. This usually had departed on it's way back to Inverness, leaving any wagons for Elgin to be shunted by the engine arriving from Keith.

 

Locomotives at this period were usuallly class 25s or 26s with the occasional 27 starting to make an appearance as they were displaced off the West Highland line and from the Glasgow Edinburgh Push Pulls.

Edited February 6, 2017 by clachnaharry

[Rivercider]

Some recollections of freight workings on the Aberdeen to Inverness line 1980-81.

 

Firstly a list of operating freight facilities on the line in 1980, from the Aberdeen end

 

At a guess might some of the 12t vans you mention be seasonal, either loaded inwards with beet pulp nuts, or loaded outwards with seed potatoes?

 

cheers

[clachnaharry]

At a guess might some of the 12t vans you mention be seasonal, either loaded inwards with beet pulp nuts, or loaded outwards with seed potatoes?

 

cheers

All of the intermediate goods yards were in a very rural areas so I think that is quite likely.

[Banger Blue]

There was a speedlink from Tees which called at Healey Mills, it often ran a a class 7 which I think was TTAs going back to stanlow

I think it may have been 7M49 but it's a long time ago.

I do remember the engine was normally a Thornaby 47 which came off and worked a return working

  

The List of Trains run in connection with Speedlink Services with effevt from 17th May 1982 included the following trains:-

 

6D66 01.15 MX Healey Mills - Scunthorpe

 

6M86 16.48 SX Healey Mills - Toton (calling Tinsley)

 

6M89 19.56 SX Scunthorpe - Ashburys (calling Healey Mills 21.25 - 22.47)

 

6M64 20.00 SX Tees Yard - Ellesmere Port (calling Healey Mills 22.50 - 23.50)

 

6E95 20.15 SX Warrington - York Dringhouses (calling Healey Mills 22.42 - 23.54)

 

Plus the following local trips which may give an indication as to traffic flows.

 

8D82 03.55 MX Healey Mills - Doncaster

9K43 07.52 SX Healey Mills - Dewsbury

9K43 09.47 SX Dewsbury - Healey Mills

8K58 05.20 SX Healey Mills - Hunslet

4K59 11.23 SX Wakefield - Healey Mills 

8K57 14.15 SX Hunslet - Healey Mills

8E64 20.06 SX Ardwick E.-Healey Mills

 

cheers

Mention of Stanlow and this working 6M64 20.00 SX Tees Yard - Ellesmere Port (calling Healey Mills 22.50 - 23.50) attracted my interest, I had a quick search on Flickr for 6M64 and it threw up the following TOPS print out:

 

40122 with a consist of mainly TTB tanks.

https://flic.kr/p/btyWjP

 

There is also a small group (only 5 members) for TOPS prints but my iPad won't let me copy the link to the group but you'll be able to access it via the info page for the above picture.

[MarshLane]

Guys, sorry I've been busy and caught up with other things the past few days - thanks for all the input, I'll get the document updated with the latest info.

 

Rich

[ess1uk]

Anything else added recently Rich?

[MarshLane]

Hi ess1uk,

Sorry I totally missed your question ....

 

Yes we've collated quite a bit more information over the past few months, sorry for the lack of updates.  Hectic life and work is to blame!  It is something we're still working on and collating together information from various sources. I'll get the document update asap and get the latest version posted.  If anyone else has extra info to add, please do post it!

 

Rich

[SED Freightman]

I have just come across your list, it seems a very good idea to try and record details of wagonload and bulk traffic flows before they are lost in the mists of time, particulary as the period you are recording was one of significant change for railfreight.

 

With reference to your list v2.3.

In the period 01/10/84 to 12/05/85 the Rowntrees traffic from Fosse Island York to Paddock Wood arrived on 6O44 1605 FSX ABS Tyneside TC to Paddock Wood arr.0602 MSX, having presumably been attached at Dringhouses Up Yd.  The empty wagons were despatched on 7T34 1122 SX ABS Tonbridge West Yd to Hoo Junction which called at Paddock Wood 1132 to 1146, to attach only.  From Hoo Junction, assuming the empty wagons were being returned to York they would have been forwarded on 6E53 1435 SX ABS Hoo Junction to Tyne Yd.

 

Under the heading 'Unidentified Traffic' there is mention of a trip from Paddock Wood to Temple Mills, I am not aware of any such service, however there was a 7E92 1940 SX ABS Dover Town Yd to Temple Mills which called at Hoo Junction 2119 to 2217.  This service would have conveyed train ferry traffic ex Dover and attached other domestic traffic (ex Sheerness Steel ?) at Hoo Junction.  I cannot think of any regular traffic originating from Paddock Wood that would have need to go via Temple Mills other than perhaps empty Transfesa vans for re-loading in East Anglia.

With regard to the mention of Cerestar traffic from Trafford Park to Aberdeen Waterloo Goods, I would imagine that this was bulk starch in tank wagons for the local paper industry (as received at Sittingbourne) rather than cereals.

[Mike Storey]

In the early 1980's, I was jointly in charge (as an Assistant SM) of the yards at Sittingbourne and Queenborough, and of the freight movements regarding Sheerness Steel and Dockyard, Bowaters Sittingbourne and Ridham Dock and Ridham Bowaters, as well as Chatham Dockyard.

 

The freight moves I recall were:

 

Coal - loaded 19 x HAA MGR trains to Ridham Bowaters (origins varied) normally hauled by Class 47, or 56, but sometimes by double-headed 33's or 73's. (There were also daily MGR trains from Betteshanger, Snowdown and Tilmanstone collieries passing through Sittingbourne, plus empties heading there, primarily for British Steel plants, for coking coal. These ceased between 1987 and 1989).

 

Automotive - MAT (Mainland Auto Transport) had a train loading facility at Queenborough, on the truncated part of the Queenborough Pier branch), for imported cars through Sheerness docks. (By the mid-1990's these were loaded directly onto the trains within the dockyard at Sheerness). Autics and Cartics were used for cars, mainly Vauxhalls from Belgium and Toyotas from Japan), Carflats and Lowmacs (for Toyota vans mainly). The wagons were tripped from and to Hoo Junction on the twice daily Speedlink trips, either as a total train or with traffic to/from Sheerness Steel and Dockyard. The ultimate destinations for most of this car and van traffic was either Stranraer (for Northern Ireland) or Bathgate, for Scotland distribution, but other destinations were also served from time to time.

 

Scrap Metal - Sheerness Steel received its scrap from three sources - a) by their dedicated fleet of POA (later JXA) 102t bogies, from various sources across the UK, using Speedlink to Hoo for attaching to the twice daily trip workings to Queenborough and Sheerness. b) by a daily or sometimes more often, trip from Ridham Docks for scrap imported, or brought from another part of the UK, by ship and c) by an irregular trip from Queenborough Shipbreakers (car fragmentation plant). These short trips would consist either of the new 102t bogie wagons or often MCV's or similar, and would be hauled either by a spare Class 33, between workings from Gillingham, or later by a Class 09 plus Brake Van, also from Gillingham.

 

Scrap rail vehicles - "specials" of condemned, usually unbraked, wagons (usually single axle minerals and similar) and occasionally EMU's, all requiring a brake van, would be tripped from Hoo, or sometimes direct from Acton or Willesden, for Queenborough Shipbreakers.

 

Finished Metals - empty SPA's, BDA's and other bogies would be tripped from Hoo to Sheerness Steel as part of the twice daily trip, for loading with finished coil or rod, which would be re-formed into outward services, usually including empty POA scrap wagons, by Sheerness Steel's own shunter within their site, to form one of the daily Speedlink trips to Hoo (along with any loaded car trains which the trip would collect from Queenborough). I recall many of these finished steel loads were for destinations in the Midlands (via Willesden), but also went further afield.

 

Oxygen - BOC 56t TEA bogie tanks were also delivered from Ditton (Widnes) as part of Speedlink trips from Hoo, between one and four per week usually. (The oxygen was needed as part of the process used for converting the scrap metal to finished steel products. The trips stopped when British Oxygen built an oxygen processing plant within the steelworks in the late 1990's.)

 

Imported Timber - a number of trial trips were run in and out of Chatham Dockyard, hauled by 33's, but the main route became Sheerness Dockyard (for Scandinavian timber), It was intermittent and used the Speedlink trip workings. I forget the destinations.

 

China Clay - this was brought from Burngallow, Cornwall, to Bowaters Sittingbourne discharge shed in weekly block trains, using 18 x TTA STS "Clayliner" two axle wagons, hauled normally by a Class 33, and the empties returned as a block train. Bowaters also received China Clay from two French sites, about once a fortnight, in bogie ferry tankers, tripped from Dover Town as a block train. I am sorry I cannot remember the French sites.

 

Miscellaneous - the main yard at Sittingbourne, had a covered unloading canopy belonging to AJ Wood & Sons, importers. Most weeks, ferry vans would turn up on a trip from Dover Town with ferry vans, including the odd VTG and Trasfesa wagon. Regular loads would include onions from Spain, bottled water from Evian, France and bamboo garden furniture from Italy but a number of other items would arrive too.

 

Military - during and after the Falklands war, Ridham Dock was used to import military equipment of varying kinds (which I believe I am still unable to describe as I had to sign the OSA) , sent back from the Falklands for various reasons. This required a constant succession of Vans, normally VDA's and VAA's I think, plus Warwells and LowMacs. These ran as Control Specials, and were normally Class 33 or double-headed 73's. (Type 4 locos were too heavy for the docks trackwork).

 

Oil - domestic fuel oil was delivered in up to 8x single axle tanks to the discharge point at Canterbury West. I don't know much about frequency or origin, as I only had to deal with them once. 

 

I believe all this traffic has now disappeared from the immediate area. If I think of any more, I will post again.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Mike Storey

[Fat Controller]

All gone, sadly, Mike; most of the industries you mentioned have gone. 

More recent traffic to and from the area has included calcium carbonate slurry to Bowaters from France,  plasterboard from Ridham Dock (destination unknown) and wood-pulp from Ridham Dock to somewhere in the North West. Again, none of these flows has lasted. 

I'm trying to work out if you would have met my former colleague, Stephen Poole, as he was involved with Sheppey freight traffic at some point.

[w124bob]

"• Cerestar traffic (cereals?) moved from Manchester Trafford Park to Aberdeen Waterloo, but what other traffic was shipped from Trafford Park?"

 

There was a flow of starch for use in paper making using Cerestar liveried tankers between Trafford Park and Bowaters in Sittingbourne.  I often saw the tankers being unloaded in a small shed just North of Sittingbourne station at the boundary of Bowaters site, or sitting in the yard awaiting the return working.

On several occassions I worked a train into Trafford Park, dropping off steel wire(for making the grid thingy in reinforced concrete) the rest of the consist was VDA's with coiled alloy for Metal Box at Weshoughton. The train originated from Cardiff Tidal and was a regular for the 37/9's. Relief at Crewe Gresty lane around 4.30 am. Route into Manchester was Styal line, into Trafford Park shunt and run round, Ashbury's for another run round then round to Manchester Victoria for relief at about 7.00am. New crew then took the train to Westhougton via Bolton and Lostock Junc returning the same way to Vic with the empty vans. The Trafford Park traffic was very irratic and the train reverted to a Warrington turn. Another Warrington tripper is detailed here http://www.chaddy-goods.co.uk/loco-working-log/ check out also Chadderton goods photos , very modelable!

[Mike Storey]

All gone, sadly, Mike; most of the industries you mentioned have gone. 

More recent traffic to and from the area has included calcium carbonate slurry to Bowaters from France,  plasterboard from Ridham Dock (destination unknown) and wood-pulp from Ridham Dock to somewhere in the North West. Again, none of these flows has lasted. 

I'm trying to work out if you would have met my former colleague, Stephen Poole, as he was involved with Sheppey freight traffic at some point.

 

Thanks Brian - that name rings a distant bell somewhere! What was his job?

[Fat Controller]

Thanks Brian - that name rings a distant bell somewhere! What was his job?

At some time, it involved responsibility for the various freight jobs you had, but before that he covered Hoo and the Medway towns. He wrote a book called 'Beyond the Crumbling Edge' about his time with BR.

[SED Freightman]

At some time, it involved responsibility for the various freight jobs you had, but before that he covered Hoo and the Medway towns. He wrote a book called 'Beyond the Crumbling Edge' about his time with BR.

 

I vaguely remember Stephen Poole, was he perhaps the first Freight Manager at Hoo Junction.  Thanks for mentioning his book, I've found a review and it looks very interesting so will try and obtain a secondhand copy.

[SED Freightman]

As a further update to the Paddock Wood traffic I have dug out the figures for revenue earning traffic which may be of interest :-

 

1982

Paddock Wood, Rowntrees Sdg - Received 596 wagons, Forwarded 600 wagons.

Paddock Wood. Broome & Green Sdg - Received 128 wagons (fertiliser ex Ince & Elton)

 

1987

Paddock Wood, Transfesa Terminal - Received 3,689 wagons, Forwarded 6 wagons

Paddock Wood, Rowntree Sdg - Received 71 wagons, Forwarded 68 wagons

[MarshLane]

Guys,

Absolutely fascinating and a wonderful record. Many thanks to all of you for the input!

 

It’s a fascinating area to record, if anyone can provide further details of the traffic at Hoo or the other London yards that’s always welcome. Seriously, many thanks again.

 

Rich

[w124bob]

The Chadderton goods link earlier mentions Ordsall lane serverd by 6T85, for many years the siding led to a scrap yard, Duncan Transrail built a warehouse facility on the site which received among other things Guinness from Park Royal, after leaving Ordsall lane to gain access to Trafford Park the tripper used the almost abandoned route from Fairfield round through Chorlton, Throstles Nest junc into Trafford Park. The last revenue traffic over the route was a special from Pedigree at Melton Mowbray to a brand new warehouse in the Park I'm pretty sure I worked the one and only train to go in. The Guinness traffic pattern changed around the late 80's, Duncan Transrail housed a number of industrial shunters just visible from Liverpool/North Wales trains.