McKechnie Metals, Widnes Copper Works

[5050]

Perusing my recently acquired book, 'Industrial Steam Album' (Vol. 1) I found a photo of this site which looks rather intriguing and modellable.  Seemingly compact with tight curves etc. it also appears to have a double slip which is unusual in these sort of locations. Not only is there a DS but it look to be very sharp radius to fit the limited space - could be an interesting bit of track work to model.

 

Could anyone point me in the direction of finding out more info. on the site?  I've googled it using the tags in the thread title but very little of practical use has surfaced.  Perhaps a link to the relative old OS map?  Or some more photos somewhere?

 

[PGH]

According to Industrial Railway Society records the site was originally a copper works and later a chemical works, trading as McKechnie Bros Ltd. then as a subsidiary McKechnie Chemicals Ltd. from 1965.

 

They had two Andrew Barclay 0-4-0STs named ECONOMIC and EFFICIENT, and two Sentinels ENTERPRISE and ENDURANCE.  Rail traffic had ceased by 1969.  ECONOMIC was scrapped c1955; the two Sentinels went for scrap in 1969; EFFICIENT was preserved by the Liverpool Locomotive Preservation Group and is now at the Ribble Steam Railway, Preston.

 

The following is quoted directly from the Ribble Steam Railway website:-

 

'Efficient' was built at the Caledonia works of Andrew Barclay & Sons in Kilmarnock. It is a standard Barclay saddle tank with 14" x 22" cylinders and 3' 5" driving wheels. Painted in the Kilmarnock firms usual green lined livery and lettering, it spent it's entire working life at McKechnie Brothers' copper smelting works at Widnes. It shared the duties here with a smaller Barclay engine named 'Economic', which failed to live up to it's name and was scrapped in 1955. There were also two 100h.p. Sentinels as well.

When no longer required at the copper works 'Efficient' was purchased by the Liverpool  Locomotive Preservation Group and moved to Seacombe in July 1969. From here, it worked the two Docker railtours in 1971 and 1972, double-headed with Avonside 'Lucy'. 'Efficient' moved to Southport in July 1973, where she had the distinction of being the first steam locomotive to enter the newly formed museum. She was fitted with a new inner firebox in 1981, and was a regular performer at Steamport Southport until the late 1990's when the site closed, eventually arriving at Preston on 27th July 1999. Efficient's last public steaming was in April 2000 as she took part in the closing celebrations at Shelton Steelworks in Stoke. A firm favourite amongst the crews at the museum, investigation was carried out during the summer of 2005 to bring the loco back into service.

Unfortunately, due to the extent of the work required on the boiler, she will have to wait her turn. She is on view in the museum in a 'as in industrial use' condition.

 

 

 

EFFICIENT on display at Preston in September last year in "weathered" condition !

[5050]

Thanks for the reply.  I suppose I can now justify my having 2 Barclays - of differing sizes!

[APOLLO]

Pretty sure McKechnies is the Metal works shown in the centre of this map

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=53.3585&lon=-2.7460&layers=6&b=1

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/McKechnies/@53.3580469,-2.7525746,3403m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487ae276220f0ddf:0x6cc038488d23985e!8m2!3d53.358704!4d-2.745969

 

Brit15

Edited February 22, 2017 by APOLLO

[Marshall5]

I recognise that photo 5050, and Brit 15 is correct with his map location. As far as larger scale, say 25", maps go it might be worth contacting Widnes Library who are very helpful.  They also have an incredible railway collection (including a lot of OOP books) requiring a room all of its own.  I needed a plan from a 1952 issue of MRN and guess what? They had it and were happy to let me copy it.

In a 'previous life' I was closely involved with 'Efficient' as one of the group who purchased her (for 100 quid) from McKechnie's in July 1969.  Looking back now I'm amazed that they took a bunch of mainly 17-18 yr olds seriously.The firm had gone over to road transport a few months before. One of the post war 100HP Sentinels, Enterprise, had been OOU for some time with a gearbox problem IIRC but the other, Endurance, was in the back of the shed just visible in the bottom r.h. corner of the photo in post #1. Although we were offered the Sentinels for 50 quid each they went to a local scrapyard where they resided under a pile of car bodies for some time before being cut up.

The first pic shows the loco loaded up on Roebuck's low loader ready for the journey to Birkenhead.  Ah, those were the days, 4 in line low loaders with 'knockout' back axles and a hand winch. No hydraulics then - just 'Duff' ratchet jacks and sweat - it was a hot day as well!  The second shows Efficient leaving the works for the last time behind a classic Scammell tractor unit.

I think it would make a very interesting model, lots of industrial grot etc. but how would you simulate the clouds of odouriferous acid fumes?

Ray.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Marshall5

[Osgood]

OMG.  Taking Brit15's NIS map reference and panning in any direction (to the east is Pilkington's works) it seems to be a veritable maze of industrial trackery - another era…...

Edited February 22, 2017 by Osgood

[Osgood]

Nice bit of industrial brickwork here:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93173492@N00/21413946668/in/photolist-fhdnLh-9MQLEm-yCh5i3-daW91r-osTaPm-dmSvby-otqrWu-oeHG4Q-sxo3ob-MrcezL-owbti3-owryyX-oeHsTG-odcMU3-ovZKeA-oy1Qjk-ouFwes-oeM8Ni-ct9YDJ-4o8Qyb-ozzJ8o-a4LcRD-om4xZ2-7Q1zds-ezQHyw-zreicB-vAC6YJ

[5050]

Pretty sure McKechnies is the Metal works shown in the centre of this map

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=53.3585&lon=-2.7460&layers=6&b=1

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/McKechnies/@53.3580469,-2.7525746,3403m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487ae276220f0ddf:0x6cc038488d23985e!8m2!3d53.358704!4d-2.745969

 

Brit15

Wow!  Osgood is right.  What an amazing area for industrial railways.  McKechnie's looks very minimal beside some of the others.  Thanks very much for the links.  I remember going over the transporter bridge with my Dad not long before it closed but I was totally unaware of the railway system around me!

[Stephenwolsten]

The 8D Association is a good group for information about the wonderful railways around WIdnes. 

 

http://www.8dassociation.btck.co.uk/

Edited February 24, 2017 by Stephenwolsten

[Marshall5]

Thanks for the link Stephen.  The section on the Hutchinson Dock & Estate is very comprehensive and informative: http://www.8dassociation.btck.co.uk/IndustrialandPrivateRailways/JohnHutchinsonsWestBankDockEstate

Eighteen months after we purchased 'Efficient' from McKechnie's we purchased 'Lucy', an Avonside B3 (1568/1909) from Hutchinson's.  The first photo shows her on one of her last 'outings' at Widnes having already been relegated to standby loco by the two Yorkshire diesel hydraulics,'Nina' and D2858.  Although still a bit scruffy 'Lucy' was able to double head a railtour around Birkenhead docks in July 1972 as shown in the second photo.

Ray.

[avonside1563]

I remember the charter at Shelton Steel works, we were there with Hawarden from Foxfield. The workshop at Shelton was very handy being heated and well stocked thankfully as Efficient developed a couple of badly leaking tubes during the charter and some of us from Foxfield set to in the evening and made a couple of blanking plugs to get her back into steam the next day. Good times having the run of the works and hanging big loads behind the locos. Hawarden easily lifted 600 tons on her own to the amazement of the gallery of photographers.

[5050]

Great stuff and very useful links, thanks guys.  But - what about that minimum radius double slip?  I wonder what the scale radius would have been.  Looks far tighter than even a 1:6 version but with short wheelbase locos and stock it could be a useful space saver on a model. 

 

Anyone built anything this tight?

[Mirithehamster]

Pretty sure McKechnies is the Metal works shown in the centre of this map

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=53.3585&lon=-2.7460&layers=6&b=1

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/McKechnies/@53.3580469,-2.7525746,3403m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487ae276220f0ddf:0x6cc038488d23985e!8m2!3d53.358704!4d-2.745969

 

Brit15

it is McKechnie Brothers' copper smelting works 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Great stuff and very useful links, thanks guys.  But - what about that minimum radius double slip?  I wonder what the scale radius would have been.  Looks far tighter than even a 1:6 version but with short wheelbase locos and stock it could be a useful space saver on a model. 

 

Anyone built anything this tight?

 

Currently doing 1 in 4's in EM, fought shy of a double slip though!

 

Mike.

[Mirithehamster]

there was also widnes dock junction nearby which had an intresting flat crossing, 

[5050]

there was also widnes dock junction nearby which had an intresting flat crossing, flat crossing at Widnes Dock Junction in the early 1960s.JPG

Almost looks as if it's built on PCB strip!

 

Currently doing 1 in 4's in EM, fought shy of a double slip though!

 

Mike.

I reckon the 'V's' on Enigma Engineering are abouit that tight in P4.  Largest industrial loco to run (so far!) is the Hudswell 0-6-0 diesel - but it is still a very short wheelbase.  An 08 will also get round (but that's cheating 'cos it's BR!)

[Mirithehamster]

Thanks for the link Stephen.  The section on the Hutchinson Dock & Estate is very comprehensive and informative: http://www.8dassociation.btck.co.uk/IndustrialandPrivateRailways/JohnHutchinsonsWestBankDockEstate

Eighteen months after we purchased 'Efficient' from McKechnie's we purchased 'Lucy', an Avonside B3 (1568/1909) from Hutchinson's.  The first photo shows her on one of her last 'outings' at Widnes having already been relegated to standby loco by the two Yorkshire diesel hydraulics,'Nina' and D2858.  Although still a bit scruffy 'Lucy' was able to double head a railtour around Birkenhead docks in July 1972 as shown in the second photo.

Ray.

Lucy at Widnes 1969-70.jpg

Birkenhead Docker No 3 1972.jpg

wish someone would work on getting both Lucy and Efficent back to working order

[Mirithehamster]

The Locomotive Mary At West Bank Dock Widnes in 1940

[Osgood]

Looks like some pretty tight curves in the St. Helens glass industry - should inspire someone to squeeze a siding in where there is no room!

 

[Marshall5]

wish someone would work on getting both Lucy and Efficent back to working order

So do I.  After the LLPG re-boxed Effficient she worked regularly at Steamport before going out on hire where (IMO) she wasn't particularly well looked after and was laid aside requiring further firebox work. The LLPG assets were absorbed into Steamport Ltd but an ownership issue has prevented further spending on Efficient.

As regards Lucy, after the 1978 Birkenhead Docker it was realised that she really needed a full overhaul which was started at Steamport.  In the late 80's a Manpower Services scheme on the Cammell Laird's site offered to do the required work but this later stalled, several parts went 'walkies' and the loco was recovered. At Preston the loco had a cosmetic restoration and is on display in the RSR Museum.

Really like your photo of Mary - thanks for posting it.

Cheers,

Ray.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Old Maps UK has a better resolution map of that works:

 

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/351029/384818/13/101329

 

 

The double slip is visible on the plan, although it's been drawn as more of an outside slip?

[Osgood]

Looks like that is purpose-drawn for a bedroom, even has two suitably located large rectangular operating wells!!

[mcdonnellanthony01]

Perusing my recently acquired book, 'Industrial Steam Album' (Vol. 1) I found a photo of this site which looks rather intriguing and modellable.  Seemingly compact with tight curves etc. it also appears to have a double slip which is unusual in these sort of locations. Not only is there a DS but it look to be very sharp radius to fit the limited space - could be an interesting bit of track work to model.

 

Could anyone point me in the direction of finding out more info. on the site?  I've googled it using the tags in the thread title but very little of practical use has surfaced.  Perhaps a link to the relative old OS map?  Or some more photos somewhere?

 

McKechnie Metals Widnes Copper Works.jpg

 

LOOK ON WIDNES FACEBOOK GROUP SITE OR DISUSED STATIONS

[5050]

Found another photo of the slip in Gordon Edgar's new book, 'The Industrial Railways and Locomotives of North West England'.  I wonder if he  - or anyone else - took any more when he visited this site?