Bachmann CLASS 43 WARSHIP

[exmoordave]

Hi Everyone

 

I wondered if anyone else has had the same problem as I've encountered with my new green Class 43 warship. I have run it in as per Bachmann's suggestion but at slow speeds it seems to "hunt" (think that's the correct term!). As I only have a small MPD layout, slow smooth running is essential, but this example does tend to surge  at the lower end of its range. Some people may not even notice, but I DO!!! Now I have never had this problem before, so I wondered if anyone out there had experienced this, and is there anything I can do to ease/eradicate it please?

 

Anyway, many thanks in advance for any advice you may have.

 

Best to all

 

exmoordave

[Phil Bullock]

Hi Dave

 

Sorry to hear you have problems!

 

Assume you are running on 12v dc? Afraid these locos are rather high geared and not great slow runners on DC - problem is cured with DCC running

 

Another issue you probably wont encounter on an MPD layout is that the plastic cups embedded in the motor flywheels can be loose and therefore you loose power to one bogie if this happens - might just be worth checking that

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[bigherb]

I agree with Phil these are ridiculously high geared they will out run an old Hornby Smokey Joe. You need a good controller to get a smooth start mine works better with my old feedback AMR controller.

[exmoordave]

Many thanks fellas for your replies. I certainly didn't expect the new 43 to be a worse performer than my existing 3 Class 42 Warships which all perform better! Yes I do use DC Phil, but the system I use is a pair of KPC handhelds with their additional "fine-tune" add-on. All other locos seem to operate well so I'm at a loss to see why! Do either of you know if they have changed the chassis in any way for the 43 - motor/gearing for example?

 

An added pain is that I've renamed/numbered it to "Temeraire" - one that I particularly remember from my spotting days, so it rubs salt in the wound. I bought it from Kernow at a show, so I might have a nag at them to see what they might do? I do have some stuff on order with them anyway (inc. a couple of the original Warships!!), so it might encourage them to be "helpful".

 

So thanks again, it is much appreciated.

All the best

exmoordave

[Barry Ten]

Just bumping this topic as my Class 43 also has this tendency at slow speed. It came sound fitted with an Howes/ESU decoder so I've never run it on plain DC but the running on DCC has always been indifferent, whether or not the sound is on. At slow speeds, it won't maintain a constant speed, and at passenger train speeds it occasionally jerks suddenly.

 

I've cleaned the wheels and checked the pickups and the whole electrical path to the decoder, but the model's still much more prone to hesitating on dirt spots and so on than any other sound-fitted diesel I own. My other, older Class 42 Warships - including a chassis Phil Bullock sold me! - are all much better.

 

 

[Phil Bullock]

36 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

Just bumping this topic as my Class 43 also has this tendency at slow speed. It came sound fitted with an Howes/ESU decoder so I've never run it on plain DC but the running on DCC has always been indifferent, whether or not the sound is on. At slow speeds, it won't maintain a constant speed, and at passenger train speeds it occasionally jerks suddenly.

 

I've cleaned the wheels and checked the pickups and the whole electrical path to the decoder, but the model's still much more prone to hesitating on dirt spots and so on than any other sound-fitted diesel I own. My other, older Class 42 Warships - including a chassis Phil Bullock sold me! - are all much better.

 

 

 

Glad to hear the chassis you had from me is a good un Barry.

 

As for the running issues additional pick ups on to the back of the wheels will solve your problems.... a shame the pick up arrangement got changed!

Edited January 11, 2020 by Phil Bullock

[Barry Ten]

22 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

 

Glad to hear the chassis you had from me is a good un Barry.

 

As for the running issues additional pick ups on to the back of the wheels will solve your problems.... a shame the pick up arrangement got changed!

 

I'm going to try that auto-tune trick later as well, see if that makes a difference. The pickups are a puzzler as they look as if they ought to work well enough.

[Phil Bullock]

3 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I'm going to try that auto-tune trick later as well, see if that makes a difference. The pickups are a puzzler as they look as if they ought to work well enough.

 

Problem is that the axles are too rigid in the bogie frame with the current Bachmann arrangement - no scope to cope with the slightest track irregularity but Is worth checking the current collection strips are correctly engaged with the axle bushes too 

 

Frustrating isnt it!

[Barry Ten]

Back from the front line. The auto-tune didn't improve things so I tried releasing the bogie retaining screws just a tad to give them a bit more swivel and freedom, but again, no improvement. As far as I can tell, the collection strips all look to be engaged with the axle bushes.

 

I don't mind adding extra pickups, but will I get any benefit if the main issue is the too rigid arrangement of the axles?

 

I'm also not convinced there isn't something a bit off with the whole drive train, as there's a definite back and forwards surge when running at slow speeds, suggesting that something's not happy (although it could also be some horrible back EMF thing going on, I suppose). Grrr!

 

Very frustrating as you say as the original Warship chassis was pretty reliable, so why reinvent the wheel and then make it less good?

 

I have one other Class 43 which hasn't had much running so I may do some comparative tests to see if one is noticeably worse than the other.

[Phil Bullock]

6 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Back from the front line. The auto-tune didn't improve things so I tried releasing the bogie retaining screws just a tad to give them a bit more swivel and freedom, but again, no improvement. As far as I can tell, the collection strips all look to be engaged with the axle bushes.

 

I don't mind adding extra pickups, but will I get any benefit if the main issue is the too rigid arrangement of the axles?

 

I'm also not convinced there isn't something a bit off with the whole drive train, as there's a definite back and forwards surge when running at slow speeds, suggesting that something's not happy (although it could also be some horrible back EMF thing going on, I suppose). Grrr!

 

Very frustrating as you say as the original Warship chassis was pretty reliable, so why reinvent the wheel and then make it less good?

 

I have one other Class 43 which hasn't had much running so I may do some comparative tests to see if one is noticeably worse than the other.

We have 33 of which 20 have been run. One had the sort of symptoms you describe but it definitely improved with running in . 
 

For me there are 3 issues which contribute... rigidity, the bush pick up system and - forgive me is it these or the 40s that have wiper power transfer from the bogies to the chassis? If so hard wire that too! I also hard wire the speakers as those wipers are very close together with no positive location 

 

A pain on what is otherwise an excellent model... 

[Barry Ten]

Dear Phil

 

I was away for a few days in Sunny Spain but got back to my workbench tonight and added new pickups to the Warship. I must admit I was a little skeptical that it would make that much difference, but the running is now far improved - I couldn't get it to lurch, or the sound to stutter, at all. There's still a slight cogging-type motion at slow speeds but I assume that's nothing to do with the electrical path. So thanks very much for pointing to me in the direction you did.

 

Assuming it's of interest to anyone else, I wired my new pickups (PCB and .33mm wire) to the existing collection strips, so I utilised Bachmann's existing wires to get the power from the bogies to the circuit board. I then noticed that these wires are only loosely fixed to the board, fitting through holes in the end and then being retained by push-on plastic bushes. That also seemed a bit unreliable to me so I soldered these connections as well. The performance was already night and day after just doing one bogie, but I went ahead and did both. Whether it was the pickups or the soldered connections to the board, or both, it seems to have done the job. I will now look at my other Class 43 and see if it has any of the same issues.