Basing glues for flock and scatter

[bertiedog]

In trying out the various flocking devices for,"Flock" and for scatter materials a problem has arisen, which previous use had not shown as important.

 

It is the degree the glue dries to a truly matt finish, that is the main concern at present

 

The Wws/Peco basing glue is good. but dries with a sheen left when the static grass is strewn on a smooth surface, especially if the 2mm short grass is used.

 

Most of the time I have used it before it was added to a previously scattered sawdust finish, which masks any tendency to show reflections though thinner grass.

 

Long grass or double applied lengths mask the issue, but it still shows a bit at the edges of a clump of grass.

 

What are other experience with these special glues, previously I just used diluted PVA which dried to a reasonable low sheen. I had tried added matt acrylic medium and over spraying afterwards with Testors dull cote from an airbrush, or airbrushing on the matt artist's medium.

 

Out of curiosity I tried Titebond wood glue, but that works fine but dries glossy. This could of course be very useful next to water or ponds and puddles. It dries slower than PVA glues and has a lot of "tack".

 

I notice that US based Woodland Scenic advertise the glue they market as dead matt, but it is very expensive in the UK, and not available locally. Has anybody experience with it?

 

In the end the sheen does not matter if over sprayed. but it adds an extra process to using the static grass and scatter materials.

 

What are your favourite glues for scatter and static flocking.

 

Stephen

Edited August 13, 2017 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

Just found the Woodland version, mail order on the net, but the price is treble or more the Wws glue, and previously I used Poundland PVA, where you could buy a gallon for the cost of the Woodland version.

Adding Testors or matt medium by spray works, but means a lot of masking of glazed buildings etc.

 

Stephen

[BR60103]

I use the Woodland Scenics glue, but then it's cheaper over here. I thought it was dilute acrylic matt medium. I diuted some matt medium and found that it didn't spread out the same way from the sprayer.

The matt medium works if added with eyedropper or similar.

 

I've never managed to dilute PVA.

[bertiedog]

I tried some Woodland Scenics today, it is not so expensive, as I think the supplier who quoted the highest price got it wrong. It compares to the Wws/ Peco price, (they are the same products), and dries matt so next time I'll buy the Woodland version.

 

There should be no troubles diluting PVA, and some makes give a near matt, and you can add matt acrylic to it as well. PVA and Titebond do mix all right, not much point but it does extend the drying time, but leaves a shiny surface, but less than pure Titebond.

The glossy surface under the grass issue ishelped by using a scatter finish like sawdust, earth, or basing sand first, no application direct to a smooth painted surface. The shiny effect does not occur on a plaster surface or lightly stained/painted surface, where the glue sinks in. But where it cannot sink into the surface some makes show quite badly, needing an over spray of matt varnish or matt medium.

 

Stephen

[sulzer27jd]

Rather than seeking a matt varnish, I tend to use very fine earth, sieved over the area I have just completed. It both creates a matt effect and tones down the area.

 

John

[Tony Davis]

Rather than seeking a matt varnish, I tend to use very fine earth, sieved over the area I have just completed. It both creates a matt effect and tones down the area.

 

John

I have seen this technique mentioned elsewhere, and I thought it was recommended that the earth be baked first, is that actually necessary, or just belt and braces?

[allan downes]

Simon, the scenic master over on the Heaton Lodge thread has all the answers so really worth having a read.

 

Cheers.

 

Allan.

[sulzer27jd]

I have seen this technique mentioned elsewhere, and I thought it was recommended that the earth be baked first, is that actually necessary, or just belt and braces?

 

I think the baking idea is simply to dry it, which makes it easier to work with.

 

I am very fortunate in living beside an infinite supply of very, very fine soil. Strathmore in Angus has some of finest agricultural land available and I can gather soil with a grit that is much finer than sand, however, it is normally sodden wet (like it is today!) and I suspect this is where the baking it comes in, as a means of drying it out before use. Mind you, after the summer we have had I think I would need to bake it at the centre of the earth to dry it out.

 

Earlier this year, just as the potato crop was going in, we had a spell when it didn't rain. Now apart from the locals coming out to see who had stolen the clouds, this gave me an opportunity to get some soil that was already reasonably dry. I tend to store it in take-away tubs and simply let it sit for a while until it is really dry, before using it. This works just as well.

 

In summary then, if you gather some soil and it is damp, then a quick session in the oven, will dry it out. If you don't need to use it straight away, put it in a tub in a warm cupboard and that will do the same job.

 

John

[Tony Davis]

Thanks John, I live in the Fens so quite a bit of fine silt which would do the job, also saves me buying the fine brown ballast that I have been watching on Ebay......

[bertiedog]

If sieved, then very fine plain earth is all right, but if a bit less sieved then seeds etc., and fungus, can survive into the mix, and reactivate with the damp from the glues and water based paints.

I used to make museum displays and used many natural items then, but always had to bake the items as they had experience of fungal growth or even spouting seeds in the past. It is not dangerous to health etc., purely damaging to the look of the item, but you can introduce dry rot fungal growth in this manner, so basically bake it at 200c  for about half an hour per batch. Microwaves also work, but the water being evaporated out may not load the magnetron correctly as is approaches totally dry, and burn it out. A cup of water in the machine will load it correctly whilst the soil is heating. Also with microwaves the soil must be at least damp to start with.

In the past all grass areas were done with sawdust, then flock, so no gloss showed under the grass, but it does leave a faint line around each area, unless you spray with matt medium of some type.

 

Stephen.

Edited August 14, 2017 by bertiedog

[bertiedog]

I found an answer to the slight gloss off the Wws/Peco basing glue, mix in some acrylic matting agent from an art shop, or add in some talc powder plus a bit of colouring to take off the white left.

In the end it may be best just to spray matt medium over the lot, as it stabilises the grass anyway.

Beginning to wish I had bought more pots of Poundland emulsion in terracotta, and chocolate. but they have run out at present, although black is available. It may be cheap "surplus" paint, but is packaged for them, and is very thick and covers well, but can be diluted quite a bit, not as much as true model paints though. Perfect for landscapes basing colours though....

Stephen

[Stubby47]

As Allan suggests, I followed the technique used on Heaton Junction, which is once the grass is down, and whilst the glue is still wet, sprinkling earth powder over the freshly grassed area. Obviously different earth powder colours can be used, together if required, to get the correct earth colour for your chosen location.

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Stubby47

[bertiedog]

Personally I have always done it the other way round as the earth scatter completely breaks up any reflections from the glues, and the rough surface seems to favour the chances of the static grass sticking up right. it also leaves natural looking path edges and soil patches that are grass free. I use Chincilla sand or real earth sieved in a very fine mesh, all grades appear on Ebay if you need sieve materials, but net curtain material is very useful, stretched over a tube, secured with elastic bands.

Often it is not the fine stuff you need, but a graded larger size, like pebbles etc.

Brick dust is very good, but needs a small hand sledge hammer to break it in a sack.

Wood sawdust is almost universal in usefulness, especially the fine MDF dust, or sawdust from pine for larger stuff. I generally do not pre colour it, adding the colour as a wash from a larger brush. The MDF stuff looks like fine sand in 4mm scale