help needed wiring points

[bobby098]

   need help wiring electrofrog points,  electrics not my strong point  .. trying out oo gauge for once and building a small shunting layout ,  been told its best to use electrofrog points so the plan of the layout are in the pictures , all points are electrofrog  can you show me how to wire up to run a train ?do I need insulated rail joiners ?if so were to put them sorry for being a pain  cheers bob

[Grovenor]

For the track as shown in the photo you don't need any insulated joiners, just connect feeds to the single track on the left. 

If any of the tracks converge again off to the right then some insulated joiners will be needed on the converging tracks, where depends on the layout plan.

Regards

[bobby098]

ok thanks very much ... cheers bob

[BR60103]

May I suggest that you pin the track down temporarily with all the joiners in place and run trains through all the possibilities. Some stock can cause problems at the tips of the points and it's better to find out before you fasten it permanently. 

If you have problems (short shorts usually) we'll be here to help.

[Pete the Elaner]

It should run perfectly with no insulated rail joiners for several years, using just 1 feed on the far left.

 

Oxidation will eventually build up between rail joiner & rail which causes resistance. Ballasting & rust painting the rail also hinders a good connection.

If you need to add any feeds at a later date to get around this, then it will be much easier if you had used insulating joiners.

[gordon s]

It should run perfectly with no insulated rail joiners for several years, using just 1 feed on the far left.

 

Oxidation will eventually build up between rail joiner & rail which causes resistance. Ballasting & rust painting the rail also hinders a good connection.

If you need to add any feeds at a later date to get around this, then it will be much easier if you had used insulating joiners.

 

 

I've probably got my wires twisted, but if you are using electro frogs (not insulfrogs) surely you have to have a switched frog to take either polarity across the switch blade isolation to the exit rails.

 

I think it will work with no insulating joiners, but essentially every other piece of track is then controlled by the first turnout.  That is fine in principle, but if the OP is running DCC and wants to run more than one loco at a time or run sound locos then that won't work.  Both of those will require power which won't be there if the first turnout is set straight ahead.

 

To overcome that you have to provide feeds to each rail and then the frogs must be insulated or as soon as a turnout is moved to the opposite direction to the through route you will have a short.

 

Unfortunately I've had a sleepless night, so perhaps my brain is confused.....

 

I would always break the connection between the switched frog and the exit rails to cover all eventualities.

 

I suspect that if the OP was using Insulfrogs then two feed wires would be fine, but you will still have dead track beyond the turnout without additional feeds.

Edited January 15, 2018 by gordon s

[Pete the Elaner]

I've probably got my wires twisted, but if you are using electro frogs (not insulfrogs) surely you have to have a switched frog to take either polarity across the switch blade isolation to the exit rails.

I would agree that it is good practice to wire them this way, but Electrofrogs laid without modification will provide power to the sidings.

Peco need them to work 'out of the box' or they would not sell well enough.

Instead of feed/dead or return/dead which insulfrogs provide for each 'unrouted' siding, electrofrogs will provide feed/feed or return/return. With both types, the 'routed' siding will get feed/return across the rails.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Pete the Elaner

[Chimer]

Given that (a) a shunting plank is unlikely to be a lifetime project and (b) you've posted your question in the "not DCC" forum, the first two answers probably give you all you need to know at this point   . 

[Junctionmad]

It's quite amazing how confusion still abounds around electrofrog points

 

PECO electrofrog works directly from the box , no additional wiring is needed. Nor are insulated joiners needed where you don't have backfeeding, i.e. Power being presented at both toe and heel.

 

Where DCC is used and you require constantly powered up sidings, again you don't " need" to do any additional point wiring , but you will have to feed power to the sidings and use insulated joiners as required

 

The final mod that improves the PECO electrofrog , is to bond the switch rails to the stock rails ,isolate the common crossing and switch same using an external SPdT switch. this improves the electrical conductivity as it removes the reliance on the contact area between the switch and stock rails to power the frog , but neither in DC or DCC is it necessary to do such mods

[Grovenor]

I suspect that if the OP was using Insulfrogs then two feed wires would be fine, but you will still have dead track beyond the turnout without additional feeds.

Note that this is specifically in the non-DCC section. Dead track beyond the turnout when the route is not set is a benefit for standard 2-rail DC and the normal way to do it, any loco in a siding is then isolated when the turnout is set against it. The Peco points as they come provide frog switching via the point blades but the principle is exactly the same if the frogs are separated from the blades and external switching used. As I noted in my first reply, if tracks converge again to form a loop then some insulated joints are needed and thought needs to go into the operational requirement to determine where best to put them.Its not a one size fits all scenario.

Regards

[gordon s]

No worries Guys, I'll bail out.....

 

For some reason I saw (imagined) the OP was talking about DCC operation.  I didn't know which topic area he had posted in as I picked it up via VNC.  I told you I'd had no sleep.....   

[DCB]

If you want simple wire it as per DC, if you want idling diesels and lit up brake vans in sidings go complicated

Edited January 16, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[bobby098]

If you want simple wire it as per DC, if you want idling diesels and lit up brake vans in sidings go complicated

 

hi its dc   and you lost me   lol bob