Collett Goods loco

[melmerby]

The Airfix Castle was Tender drive and the Hornby Loco drive Castle inherited the Mainline 2251 Tender chassis

Hornby First Loco Drive Castle with Ringfield Motor (ex Dapol):

 

 

Mainline 2251 Tender:

 

 

IMHO they don't look the same.

 

Keith

[Adrock]

I remember that on Bachman Manor and 43xx models with the 3,500 gal churchward tender issued up to around 2000, the hook was moulded into the tender underframe. However, by around 2003 (lechlade Manor) the hook wasn’t moulder into the tender underframe but was screwed in to a slightly revised under frame. I believe this was so that the Collett Goods (with the moduled hook on the loco) could use the 3500 gal tender, which obviously didn’t have its own hook screwed in for said application. I have examples of both so could post pics if needed. I think this ties in with the first Blue Riband issue of a Collett Goods with 3500 gal ‘Manor’ tender, issued around 2004. Up til then they had all had Collett 3000 gal tenders.

[melmerby]

I remember that on Bachman Manor and 43xx models with the 3,500 gal churchward tender issued up to around 2000, the hook was moulded into the tender underframe. However, by around 2003 (lechlade Manor) the hook wasn’t moulder into the tender underframe but was screwed in to a slightly revised under frame. I believe this was so that the Collett Goods (with the moduled hook on the loco) could use the 3500 gal tender, which obviously didn’t have its own hook screwed in for said application. I have examples of both so could post pics if needed. I think this ties in with the first Blue Riband issue of a Collett Goods with 3500 gal ‘Manor’ tender, issued around 2004. Up til then they had all had Collett 3000 gal tenders.

Bachmann's first ever Collett 2251 is 32-300, GWR 3202. It was Blue Riband

I still have the one I bought and it has the tender shown at the bottom of post #99, which is somewhat more than "slightly revised" from the ex-Mainline derived tenders.

 

Keith

Edited August 31, 2018 by melmerby

[Adrock]

Bachmann's first ever Collett 2251 is 32-300, GWR 3202. It was Blue Riband

I still have the one I bought and it has the tender shown at the bottom of post #99, which is somewhat more than "slightly revised" from the ex-Mainline derived tenders.

 

Keith

I didn’t mean slightly revised from the ex-Mainline tenders. I meant slightly revised from the earlier-Bachmann tenders. My point being that the loco and various tenders have had a fairly complex history and that they have continued to iterate a number of times.

[melmerby]

I didn’t mean slightly revised from the ex-Mainline tenders. I meant slightly revised from the earlier-Bachmann tenders. My point being that the loco and various tenders have had a fairly complex history and that they have continued to iterate a number of times.

I see what you mean.

I found a tender for Lechlade Manor (31-308, the last of the early versions) on the web and as you point out it has been modded a bit to include better wheels and the screw on drawbar.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rgkAAOSwdjha7H10/s-l1600.jpg

It is however still quite a bit different to the Collett version which has a different chassis entirely.

 

Keith

Edited August 31, 2018 by melmerby

[Adrock]

Could anyone confirm which decoder is installed in the Bachmann Factory DCC fitted versions of this loco? It must be a fairly small one as there isn't much room in the cavity within the boiler!

 

Thanks.

[BWsTrains]

I'm not able to check mine just now but recall that a direct plugging DCC fits very easily,

My DCC Concepts Zen fitted easily straight onto the on-board socket, even room for a stay alive in the boiler if required. Presumably Bachmann do something similar with theirs

 

Colin

[melmerby]

Could anyone confirm which decoder is installed in the Bachmann Factory DCC fitted versions of this loco? It must be a fairly small one as there isn't much room in the cavity within the boiler!

 

Thanks.

There is actually plenty of room due to the unnecessary removal of so much of the casting.

 A Lenz Standard + fits even with some extra ballast to replace the lost weight.

IIRC I ended up with a Silver mini wired to the socket to get more lead in

 

Keith

 

Edit

See Here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/132547-collett-goods-loco/page-4&do=findComment&comment=3248677

Edited October 12, 2018 by melmerby

[Silver Sidelines]

I wonder if these pictures help?

 

Bachmann 22xx dcc Ready - as bought

 

Bachmann 22xx dcc Ready - weighted for analogue

Edited October 12, 2018 by Silver Sidelines

[Adrock]

Thanks all, but I was actually after the manufacturer and model number of the DCC chip that Bachman fit to the factory fitted DCC version! If anyone knows it.

 

Thanks.

[GJChurchward]

I've arrived at this thread, which I see is reasonably current, having asked myself the question 'How do I provide my layout with a passable 2251?'  I see a lot of discussion about the history of Mainline and Bachmann offerings, which will be very interesting to some, but probably doesn't help me much.

 

I can't remember how long ago I acquired a Mainline 2251.  (Also a Manor, and an Airfix 14xx.)  Pretty soon after that, I decided that the chassis just had to be thrown away and replaced with Perseverance kits.  I now realize that they, too, are slightly fictitious, however I obtained them, and have had these three projects tucked away for years while building all the stock for them to haul, satisfying myself with continuously improving rtr models of other prototypes.  I have the Manor on the workbench at the moment, but one eye is on the 2251.  My aim is to bring them all up to the same visual standard as modern products, at least such that it's not obvious that they have different parentages.  For example, the Manor needs to sit alongside my two Hornby Granges and several Bachmann Halls without looking like it was made for more easily-pleased modellers.

 

The Mainline 2251 body shell has some clear faults, even without getting out any drawings or measuring equipment.  There's the missing backhead, of course - and without the original chassis, there's a big chunk missing from the underside of the boiler.  I suppose I could dissect the chassis to recover the bottom of the boiler, and permanently glue it in place, but is it really worth the effort, if the Bachmann 2251 body shell is more accurate and will take less fettling?  There's no real need for me to reuse the Mainline body shell - I just need a 2251.

 

What's the better solution?  Do I persist with the Mainline body shell I already have, or find a Bachmann body to go on the Percy chassis?  How much working up is needed?  I'm not afraid to throw scalpels and files at it, but I do need a reasonably quick project.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Get out the drawings, and assess whether the modifications to the Mainline body shell to make it conform to prototype are possible within the constraint of the  'quick project' you want. Only you can make that call.

 

I would suggest the 14xx as a better project. There are two current models, so slim chance of another RTR entry: and as a mechanical 'problem child' due to the prototype design, offers the kit builder the chance to do better than RTR. Whereas the 2251 might well tempt another manufacturer since the existing model is manifestly not quite right, and 0-6-0 mechanisms with good performance are now readily achieved by the RTR manufacturers.

[melmerby]

 

there's a big chunk missing from the underside of the boiler. 

 

 

Same with the Bachmann version, the bottom third of the boiler is chassis, although separate.

 

Keith

Edited October 17, 2018 by melmerby

[OnTheBranchline]

Did everyone else think of doing the DCC decoder this way? 🤦‍♂️

 

From Hattons Preowned:
 

[No Decorum]

7 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

Did everyone else think of doing the DCC decoder this way? 🤦‍♂️

 

From Hattons Preowned:
 

What a shame!

[Pteremy]

Another model ripe for bringing up today's standards, at least in terms of control/mechanism. Someone must have it in their sights.

[melmerby]

9 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

Did everyone else think of doing the DCC decoder this way? 🤦‍♂️

 

From Hattons Preowned:
 

Why o why?😒

 

It's like a Hornby King Arthur I bought S/H

Externally it was mint and it ran OK on DC.

When I came to fit a decoder I found the socket had been removed and the loco re-wired inside with wire many times thicker than the original.

A real bodge job and again; Why?

Edited February 13, 2023 by melmerby

[OnTheBranchline]

1 hour ago, Pteremy said:

Another model ripe for bringing up today's standards, at least in terms of control/mechanism. Someone must have it in their sights.

Is it really that out if date detail wise?

 

Im good with the one I have and rather not spend 170 quid (because that’s how much a new one will cost).

[Neal Ball]

It's so easy to put the decoder into the tender and add extra pickups at the same time, why rip out the backhead detail.

[OnTheBranchline]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

Why o why?😒

 

It's like a Hornby King Arthur I bought S/H

Externally it was mint and it ran OK on DC.

When I came to fit a decoder I found the socket had been removed and the loco re-wired inside with wire many times thicker than the original.

A real bodge job and again; Why?

 

This is as brute force and ignorance as I've ever seen in railway modelling. Or is it the 'ends justify the means'? 🤔

[Pteremy]

4 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

Is it really that out if date detail wise?

 

Im good with the one I have and rather not spend 170 quid (because that’s how much a new one will cost).

 

I think so, although I had the mechanism/electronics primarily in mind. See the exchanges from 2018, a few posts back, for other views. If you have one you cherish then fine, no reason for you to stop doing so, even if a better one appears.

[melmerby]

5 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

It's so easy to put the decoder into the tender and add extra pickups at the same time, why rip out the backhead detail.

And if you dont want to modify the tender:

Early type with Buhler motor:

 

DCC ready type, with Bachmann motor:

There is also lead in the smoke box, this one is pretty heavy

 

N.B.

I also did two different tenders with pickups & decoder in.

Early one, the loco hook goes under the front (RH side of image)

 

Later one, which is brand new tooling but is of an earlier GWR tender.

The loco hook goes into the hole in the metal link.

 

you can see the cutouts where the sockets are going, the later one already had a cutout.

 

More Here:

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by melmerby

[Adrock]

Hi, does anyone know of a source for a single replacement tender wheel set for the Collett 3.000gal tender used on 32-301 and 301A? The Bachmann spares website doesn’t list this particular pattern. 

 

thanks in advance. 

[Adrock]

On 13/02/2023 at 18:10, melmerby said:

And if you dont want to modify the tender:

Early type with Buhler motor:

 

DCC ready type, with Bachmann motor:

There is also lead in the smoke box, this one is pretty heavy

 

N.B.

I also did two different tenders with pickups & decoder in.

Early one, the loco hook goes under the front (RH side of image)

 

Later one, which is brand new tooling but is of an earlier GWR tender.

The loco hook goes into the hole in the metal link.

 

you can see the cutouts where the sockets are going, the later one already had a cutout.

 

More Here:

 

Couple of observations - on my early non-DCC ready version, I cut down that block that sits in the boiler (basically to look like the lump including in the DCC ready ones) so I could fit a Zimo decoder in. Looks like your decoder was so small it would fit without needing to do that (assume a Lenz gold or silver?)

 

secondly, I find the Buhler motor smoother and much quieter in comparison with the Collett Goods with later Bachmann motor - such is progress!

[melmerby]

4 minutes ago, Adrock said:

Couple of observations - on my early non-DCC ready version, I cut down that block that sits in the boiler (basically to look like the lump including in the DCC ready ones) so I could fit a Zimo decoder in. Looks like your decoder was so small it would fit without needing to do that (assume a Lenz gold or silver?)

 

secondly, I find the Buhler motor smoother and much quieter in comparison with the Collett Goods with later Bachmann motor - such is progress!

It's a Lenz Silver + mini.