point indicators and trailing points.

[ColHut]

Back in the day when point indicators were used to indicate the lie of facing points, did such indicators also provide any indication to any movements over the points from the trailing side?

 

Such situations might be backing movements or on a single line track.

 

I suppose that the worse that would happen is that the points would be forced if not set correctly and somewhat damaged.

 

regards

[micknich2003]

Back in the day when point indicators were used to indicate the lie of facing points, did such indicators also provide any indication to any movements over the points from the trailing side?

 

Such situations might be backing movements or on a single line track.

 

I suppose that the worse that would happen is that the points would be forced if not set correctly and somewhat damaged.

 

regards

 Colin, the final paragraph should hopefully explain the meaning of Point Discs, see also the drawing of Willerby, worked signals are provided for trains leaving the sidings.

 

[ColHut]

Thanks Mick.

 

Are distances in miles, chains and links?

 

There appear to be four point indicators on the diagram. What is the purpose of the one at 4.60? Possibly to show the lie of the points for backing moves from the up to the down over the slip (which appears to have only a dingle lever -6)

 

With blue lights, this is a H & B line?

 

regards and thanks.

[micknich2003]

An H&BRly location, the drawing dates from the turn of the last century, if not earlier.

 The Disc shown at 4C 60L, should pressumably be on the Slip No7, "B" end, the distance is no doubt an error, and should possibly read 1C 60L.. The book contains numerious errors, and that is despite being one of several bound for the use of the Officers of the line, my copy is Gold Blocked Mr Stirling.

[ColHut]

Thanks Mick. The "B" end of no.7 yes seems likely now that you point it out.

 

I wonder how long point indicators remained alongside worked ground signals; I understand that most point indicators were converted to gound signals so hopefully not long as it was likely to cause confusion.

 

regards

[micknich2003]

Thanks Mick. The "B" end of no.7 yes seems likely now that you point it out.

 

I wonder how long point indicators remained alongside worked ground signals; I understand that most point indicators were converted to gound signals so hopefully not long as it was likely to cause confusion.

 

regards

I can't put my hand to exact dates, but from memory for many years.

Point Discs seem to have fell out of favour by the mid 1890's, and certainly from then, worked shunting signals were the Norm for New Work.

[RailWest]

There used to be a point indicator adjacent to the trap point at the exit from one of the sidings at Shillingstone on the S&DJR. In 1939 this was abolished and replaced by an illuminated 'indicator' reading 'TRAP POINTS'.

 

The relevant Signalling Instruction is not specific, but I get the impression that this new 'indicator' was a fixed notice rather than something that worked with the point. This seems to me to be something rather less useful than an indicator which actually told you when the trap had been closed. I've never come across anything similar elsewhere - has anyone?

 

I've no idea why such a change was made - especially as, on the other side of the station, they simply removed another point indicator at another trap point without any similar replacement.

[Grovenor]

Back in the day when point indicators were used to indicate the lie of facing points, did such indicators also provide any indication to any movements over the points from the trailing side?

Such situations might be backing movements or on a single line track.

Going back to this question, generally if not always, point indicators would be visible whether approached facing or trailing. But they did not constitute a movement authority so the movement would need a wave from the Bobby or shunter.

Regards

[iands]

This seems to me to be something rather less useful than an indicator which actually told you when the trap had been closed............ I've no idea why such a change was made ............

Only a guess, but at the time the "illuminated indicator" was installed perhaps other works took place, e.g. the fitting of "electrical detection" (I'm assuming an FPL was already provided). This arrangement would enhance the interlocking - if the points are reversed and detection obtained (and FPL "normal" - locking the points) then the signal can be cleared - what other indication would be needed?

 

As I say, just a guess.

 

Regards, Ian.

[RailWest]

Only a guess, but at the time the "illuminated indicator" was installed perhaps other works took place, e.g. the fitting of "electrical detection" (I'm assuming an FPL was already provided). This arrangement would enhance the interlocking - if the points are reversed and detection obtained (and FPL "normal" - locking the points) then the signal can be cleared - what other indication would be needed?

 

As I say, just a guess.

 

Regards, Ian.

Err - this was at a trap point at the exit from a siding, so no FPL and no signal - other than the now-removed point indicator.

[iands]

Err - this was at a trap point at the exit from a siding, so no FPL and no signal - other than the now-removed point indicator.

Ah, okay. I don't know the finer points (no pun intended) of the S&DJR, but it would seem that they applied the use of traps differently to what I'm used to, e.g. between an 'exit' signal from the siding (or a loop) and the "main" line.

 

Regards, Ian.

[RailWest]

Ah, okay. I don't know the finer points (no pun intended) of the S&DJR, but it would seem that they applied the use of traps differently to what I'm used to, e.g. between an 'exit' signal from the siding (or a loop) and the "main" line.

 

Regards, Ian.

Err...not at all different. FPLs on traps at the exit from sidings would be very rare. Like most old installations, the lack of signals at the exit from sidings was quite common on the S&DJR and lasted until closure in 1966.

[The Stationmaster]

Err...not at all different. FPLs on traps at the exit from sidings would be very rare. Like most old installations, the lack of signals at the exit from sidings was quite common on the S&DJR and lasted until closure in 1966.

 

The lack of various 'modern' controls such as the interlinking of section signals with the block or token/tablet systems on single line sections was another feature of the S&DJtR according to those who worked there.

[RailWest]

The lack of various 'modern' controls such as the interlinking of section signals with the block or token/tablet systems on single line sections was another feature of the S&DJtR according to those who worked there.

Remind me Mike - how many GWR single-line block-posts has 'staff/token out' releases pre -1948 ? :-):-)